Politics Thread: Edge of Seventeen

[Malcador]

Just arm the teachers already.

 

And the school mascot as well.

https://youtu.be/vj1SzURv0uM

Edited May 1, 2018 by Malcador

[smjjames]

 

Just arm the teachers already.

 

And the school mascot as well.

 

 

I wonder if there is a school mascot out there that is literally a gun, then you'd be arming the gun with a gun, heh.

[injurai]

 

 

Just arm the teachers already.

 

And the school mascot as well.

 

 

I wonder if there is a school mascot out there that is literally a gun, then you'd be arming the gun with a gun, heh.

 

 

[Malcador]

 

Would be surprised they would run uniforms through that, and especially something like a SRO. Which seems like choice duty, for a cop. And in any case, military training fails, and a soldier is meant for violence far above a mere cop.

 

Could be 17 dead, or 1, it's asinine to want the cop to be executed. Overemotional response. Wonder how many he could have saved, anyway, by the time he hears gunfire people are already dead. Academic, anyway.

 

I think you are in a different conversation. No one even said anything about how many he could saved. He broke the protocol, he didn't do what he was trained to do, he should be punished. End of story.

 

 

It is worth considering though, if you're going to use the body count as a cudgel towards him.

 

Seeing how the punishment he could have faced was just administrative - as in getting canned (I'm not aware of any law he broke - and such a law would be pretty odd, mandating behaviour for just one profession and doing so for the general public is overreach), he ducked that by resigning as he's able to, so big deal.  And wanting him to face execution for it is some stereotypical Internet hardman BS.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Malcador

[Valsuelm]

Frankly, it's foolish to think the average policeperson would ever save any of these kids. And it's equally foolish to think that training would condition them or most anyone to act in heroic manner in the face of their own potential death.

 

The idea of punishing them for being cowards is ludicrous. Most are, and we absolutely don't need more people in our already ridiculously over populated prisons.

 

If you really think that police are there to 'protect and serve' you, some kids, or the average person, the ugly joke is on you. The vast majority of police will never protect and serve the average citizen in any meaningful way, and certainly would never put their own life on the line for others.

[Hurlshort]

Always a ray of sunshine, Val.

[Malcador]

Eh, if it were one these skinheaded badass type cops I see around a lot these days I can see them going in.  Always is some dude that buys into the kool-aid and thinks he's "the tip of the spear" or something along those lines

 

But, definitely feel the SRO would have gone in if he had a partner with him.  Doubt they'd have done much, and not because it's a pistol against a rifle, not sure why people mention that - the shooter wasn't wearing body armour and is carrying a somewhat less maneuverable weapon, but just rather due to the time.

[Valsuelm]

Always a ray of sunshine, Val.

 

Spades be spades.

 

I'm all for sunny fun things, happiness, flowers, good vibrations, and such. Believing things to be other than they are though, generally leads to bad things for you and possibly others.

 

It wasn't me who was calling for some guy who perpetrated no crime on anyone (that we know of) to be killed, thrown in jail, sued, or punished in some undefined way.... yet I win your comment.

 

Are you trying to be #3? You'll have to try much harder.

[smjjames]

It would have been nice if the guy was honest and up front about why he bolted instead of lying, would probably have gotten canned either way, or gotten scapegoated and then canned.

 

He also reportedly kept the other responders from going in for some time, which I don't know was because protocol or what.

[injurai]

Frankly, it's foolish to think the average policeperson would ever save any of these kids. And it's equally foolish to think that training would condition them or most anyone to act in heroic manner in the face of their own potential death.

 

The idea of punishing them for being cowards is ludicrous. Most are, and we absolutely don't need more people in our already ridiculously over populated prisons.

 

If you really think that police are there to 'protect and serve' you, some kids, or the average person, the ugly joke is on you. The vast majority of police will never protect and serve the average citizen in any meaningful way, and certainly would never put their own life on the line for others.

 

Always a ray of sunshine, Val.

 

While I wouldn't go so far as to say the vast majority will never protect and serve, Val's general thrust is similar to my earlier post. I think the solution to or the even the appropriate action given after the fact of a shooting is not to expect the police simply to "come through on their mission statement." If the officers fails, maybe strip them of the position or retire them to the desk. We can't afford our solution to be the best case scenarios of human error, that is never good enough, and punishing human error is a capricious acting out of righteous indignation by society when it's a larger societal fault that we expect police to be the heroic archetype of "succeed or die trying."

[injurai]

And how that compares to the notion "you don't need guns for protection, police will protect you"?

 

How what compares?

[injurai]

 

 

And how that compares to the notion "you don't need guns for protection, police will protect you"?

How what compares?

Those two conflicting statements:

1. You don't need guns, police will protect you.

2. You cannot count on police to protect you.

 

Where and who are each of those being said. It seems you're paraphrasing at best.

 

The first I don't agree with in practice, a society share grant the right to bare arms. I also don't think protection should be left solely to the individual, but that's not the point I'm making. The second I'm only saying you can't count on the police to always come through, and having your policy hinge on them coming through is imprudent. There is no contradiction with what I'm saying.

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Frankly, it's foolish to think the average policeperson would ever save any of these kids. And it's equally foolish to think that training would condition them or most anyone to act in heroic manner in the face of their own potential death.

 

The idea of punishing them for being cowards is ludicrous. Most are, and we absolutely don't need more people in our already ridiculously over populated prisons.

 

If you really think that police are there to 'protect and serve' you, some kids, or the average person, the ugly joke is on you. The vast majority of police will never protect and serve the average citizen in any meaningful way, and certainly would never put their own life on the line for others.

Always a ray of sunshine, Val.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say the vast majority will never protect and serve, Val's general thrust is similar to my earlier post. I think the solution to or the even the appropriate action given after the fact of a shooting is not to expect the police simply to "come through on their mission statement." If the officers fails, maybe strip them of the position or retire them to the desk. We can't afford our solution to be the best case scenarios of human error, that is never good enough, and punishing human error is a capricious acting out of righteous indignation by society when it's a larger societal fault that we expect police to be the heroic archetype of "succeed or die trying."

And how that compares to the notion "you don't need guns for protection, police will protect you"?

 

 

I certainly would never state the latter.

 

You absolutely cannot count on the police to protect you.

 

If you think so, you've let all those movies, TV shows, newspapers, etc where the police are usually portrayed as heroic good guys go to your head.

 

Average Joe policeman, is not going to risk themselves saving your behind. Average Joe policeman isn't even going to risk themselves by putting themselves in a situation where they might have to save someone's behind. Hence average Joe policeman spending the vast majority of their time raising revenue for the local mafia some call government via ticketing people for X, or arresting someone for a petty 'crime' where no one is actually a victim (in a court of law the mafia often ultimately claims that they are the victim).

 

And all that said, even if you've got superhero police people in your locale of the best Hollywood caliber the following with nearly always apply: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

 

In real life the 'bad guys' don't always miss, and the 'good guys' often don't win. In real life, no one is more able to protect you than you. If you're not willing to take the steps to protect you and yours that's 100% on you.

 

Without a doubt it is better to be armed and never need a weapon, than to never be armed and find yourself in a situation where you need one.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Valsuelm

[Armanz]

Royally pissed about the latest decision in Bayern (basically the Texas of Germany) that all official buildings will be required to have a cross hanging. I'd preach (ha) about seperation of church and state but it's obvious that this isn't a religious choice but a political statement to create a barrier (maybe the wrong choice of words, I'm not sure) against muslim immigrants.

[Agiel]

Ty Cobb bowed out of the job representing Trump. I guess that gig is a bit like being the drummer for Spinal Tap.

[Chilloutman]

Royally pissed about the latest decision in Bayern (basically the Texas of Germany) that all official buildings will be required to have a cross hanging. I'd preach (ha) about seperation of church and state but it's obvious that this isn't a religious choice but a political statement to create a barrier (maybe the wrong choice of words, I'm not sure) against muslim immigrants.

 

5 posts and already in WoT, and even better in politics, you will enjoy this xD

[Valsuelm]

Royally pissed about the latest decision in Bayern (basically the Texas of Germany) that all official buildings will be required to have a cross hanging. I'd preach (ha) about seperation of church and state but it's obvious that this isn't a religious choice but a political statement to create a barrier (maybe the wrong choice of words, I'm not sure) against muslim immigrants.

 

Why be pissed about this?

 

Truly, even if you disagree with it, why be pissed?

 

Were you betrayed? Did someone lie to you? Do you live in Bavaria?

 

If you don't live in Bavaria why would you be pissed at something they do there?

[Lexx]

Well, I'm facepalming as well about the news, but then again, it's Bavaria....

[Hurlshort]

 

If you don't live in Bavaria why would you be pissed at something they do there?

 

 

Since they have a fictional place from Icewind Dale listed as their location, the odds are somewhat decent that they do live in Bavaria (or at least Germany.)

 

edit: Side note, my first guess was that he lived in Afghanistan, which might have given insight into the Muslim immigrant concern. But then I looked up Kuldahar and realized it is not the same as Kandahar. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Hurlshot

[Valsuelm]

 

 

If you don't live in Bavaria why would you be pissed at something they do there?

 

 

Since they have a fictional place from Icewind Dale listed as their location, the odds are somewhat decent that they do live in Bavaria (or at least Germany.)

 

edit: Side note, my first guess was that he lived in Afghanistan, which might have given insight into the Muslim immigrant concern. But then I looked up Kuldahar and realized it is not the same as Kandahar. 

 

 

Please enlighten me as to why a Bavarian or German would be more likely to list the fictional place of Kuldahar as their location than anyone else in the world?

 

It happens to arguably be the best track in the game, but I don't get the Deutsch connection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhVxvv4VWLc

[HoonDing]

when did Giuliani become a Dem?

[Valsuelm]

when did Giuliani become a Dem?

 

A New York City Republican isn't exactly what many Republicans would consider a Republican.

 

New York City politics are a breed apart from most of the rest of the nation.

[Zoraptor]

 

edit: Side note, my first guess was that he lived in Afghanistan, which might have given insight into the Muslim immigrant concern. But then I looked up Kuldahar and realized it is not the same as Kandahar. 

 

 

I always presumed the Kuldahar name came from Kandahar as they're so close to identical.

 

Fun fact: that effectively would mean it was named after Alexander the Great, since Kandahar was founded by him as yet another Alexandria. Much like other Alexandrias (apart from the famous one) its transliteration has drifted to what it is today.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

 

If you don't live in Bavaria why would you be pissed at something they do there?

 

Since they have a fictional place from Icewind Dale listed as their location, the odds are somewhat decent that they do live in Bavaria (or at least Germany.)

 

edit: Side note, my first guess was that he lived in Afghanistan, which might have given insight into the Muslim immigrant concern. But then I looked up Kuldahar and realized it is not the same as Kandahar.

Please enlighten me as to why a Bavarian or German would be more likely to list the fictional place of Kuldahar as their location than anyone else in the world?

 

It happens to arguably be the best track in the game, but I don't get the Deutsch connection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhVxvv4VWLc

No connection. It just means he could be from anywhere, given his lack of a real location. Given his outrage and knowledge of German states, it seems reasonable to guess he is from there.

[smjjames]

 

when did Giuliani become a Dem?

 

A New York City Republican isn't exactly what many Republicans would consider a Republican.

 

New York City politics are a breed apart from most of the rest of the nation.

 

 

Sorta like Chicago has it's own sort of brand of politics.

 

Not sure what HoonDing is referring to exactly as far as Rudy Giuliani goes, since the whole thing with what he said on Fox news was coordinated with Trump, and then not even 24 hours later they are both backing off the stuff, go figure. Don't see how that suddenly makes him a Democrat, it looks like Trumpworld sheneinighans as usual to me.