Single Weapon Style?

[Mack]

Has single weapon fighting been made more tempting in Deadfire? In POE the general consensus was that while it was useful during lower levels and some other situations, overall it didn't hang with the other styles. It was viable but if you had any powergame tendencies you would probably steer clear. 

 

Quick rehash: in POE wielding a single 1h weapon with no shield gave +12 to accuracy. The 1h Style talent (by the later patches) then converted an additional 15% of hits to crits.

 

How does it currently work in the beta? And do you think it's better, worse, about the same? 

[Boeroer]

It's worse. It still gives you +12 ACC automatically if you only put a one handed weapon in your main had, but the One Handed Style got changed from 15% hit-to-crit to miss-to-graze.

[CottonWolf]

That will almost certainly be changed though, right? Because it was balanced for the point at which basically nothing grazed.

[Mack]

It's worse. It still gives you +12 ACC automatically if you only put a one handed weapon in your main had, but the One Handed Style got changed from 15% hit-to-crit to miss-to-graze.

 

If I'm not mistaken, 15% miss-to-graze is how the One Handed Style started out in POE before being patched for balance. It's strange that they would revert to something they had already decided was under-powered. I hope they at least bring it up to par with POE 1, but I've been thinking they could also add to the +12 ACC, say, +5 or +10 to Interrupt. Or some other bonus that would add just a bit of effectiveness and spice without diluting the different styles. Ideas?

 

I like the aesthetic of single weapon fighting but it's hard to justify those builds to myself when I also want a powerful character.

[dunehunter]

I personally prefer the Dev to combine one handed style with new sword/pistol ‘style’.

[Yonto]

I was thinking to pick that for my skald to have more critics, but since, for now, it’s not like in poe1, I wonder what the best alternative is

[KDubya]

I was thinking to pick that for my skald to have more critics, but since, for now, it’s not like in poe1, I wonder what the best alternative is

 

One handed weapon use is still the best way to get crits, just don't waste the Fighter only ability and take 'single weapon style'. 

 

Just equip only a single weapon, preferably a rapier, dagger or club and reap the benefits of +17 accuracy and watch the crits come rolling in. Or go with Sabre which is again the best weapon damage wise and also probably the best in magic items due to the setting.

[Yosharian]

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

[KDubya]

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

 

As it currently is balanced, single wielding a sabre is near the top dps wise and that is without taking into consideration the potential for extra penetration leading to the multiplicative 30% damage boost from over penetration. Also it doesn't consider that the most challenging enemies will also be the hardest to hit and where the extra accuracy will be the most useful.

 

 

DPS in Ranked Order After latest Beta Patch 2/2/18

 

1. Dualwielding Sabres 5.66 DPS
2. Dualwielding Fast Accurate (Daggers, Clubs, Rapiers) 5.50 DPS
3. Quarterstaffs 5.27 DPS
4. Single wield Sabre 5.22 DPS
5. Two Handed Sword/Pike 5.22 DPS
6. Dualwielding Spears 5.02 DPS
7. Dualwielding Swords/Battle Ax 5.0 DPS
8. Dualwield Hatchets 5.0 DPS
9. Single wield accurate (clubs, daggers, rapiers) 4.98 dps
10. Single wield sword/battle ax 4.62 dps
11. Single wield hatchet 4.61 dps
12. Single wield spear 4.56 dps
13. Sabre with shield 4.21 dps
14. One hand fast accurate (club, dagger, rapier) with shield 3.86 dps
15. Spear with shield 3.74 dps
16.  sword/battleax with shield 3.72 dps
17. hatchet with shield 3.71 dps

[Nail]

 

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

 

As it currently is balanced, single wielding a sabre is near the top dps wise and that is without taking into consideration the potential for extra penetration leading to the multiplicative 30% damage boost from over penetration. Also it doesn't consider that the most challenging enemies will also be the hardest to hit and where the extra accuracy will be the most useful.

 

 

DPS in Ranked Order After latest Beta Patch 2/2/18

 

1. Dualwielding Sabres 5.66 DPS
2. Dualwielding Fast Accurate (Daggers, Clubs, Rapiers) 5.50 DPS
3. Quarterstaffs 5.27 DPS
4. Single wield Sabre 5.22 DPS
5. Two Handed Sword/Pike 5.22 DPS
6. Dualwielding Spears 5.02 DPS
7. Dualwielding Swords/Battle Ax 5.0 DPS
8. Dualwield Hatchets 5.0 DPS
9. Single wield accurate (clubs, daggers, rapiers) 4.98 dps
10. Single wield sword/battle ax 4.62 dps
11. Single wield hatchet 4.61 dps
12. Single wield spear 4.56 dps
13. Sabre with shield 4.21 dps
14. One hand fast accurate (club, dagger, rapier) with shield 3.86 dps
15. Spear with shield 3.74 dps
16.  sword/battleax with shield 3.72 dps
17. hatchet with shield 3.71 dps

 

But these calculations are based on flat weapon damage and attack speed not including accuracy bonus, chance to score a critical hit and critical hit power, right?

 

I don't find one handed weapon style useful at all (miss to graze), cause you already, probably, focusing on maximum accuracy, so your miss chance is pretty low, thus this passive in PoE I with chance to turn hit into crit was way better.

Still, playing on PotD, even with 20+ perception I often miss hits using dual wielding weapons, so I may be harsh with evaluation, in situations when a graze can interrupt an enemy...

Havn't made my mind up yet.

[dunehunter]

 

 

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

 

As it currently is balanced, single wielding a sabre is near the top dps wise and that is without taking into consideration the potential for extra penetration leading to the multiplicative 30% damage boost from over penetration. Also it doesn't consider that the most challenging enemies will also be the hardest to hit and where the extra accuracy will be the most useful.

 

 

DPS in Ranked Order After latest Beta Patch 2/2/18

 

1. Dualwielding Sabres 5.66 DPS
2. Dualwielding Fast Accurate (Daggers, Clubs, Rapiers) 5.50 DPS
3. Quarterstaffs 5.27 DPS
4. Single wield Sabre 5.22 DPS
5. Two Handed Sword/Pike 5.22 DPS
6. Dualwielding Spears 5.02 DPS
7. Dualwielding Swords/Battle Ax 5.0 DPS
8. Dualwield Hatchets 5.0 DPS
9. Single wield accurate (clubs, daggers, rapiers) 4.98 dps
10. Single wield sword/battle ax 4.62 dps
11. Single wield hatchet 4.61 dps
12. Single wield spear 4.56 dps
13. Sabre with shield 4.21 dps
14. One hand fast accurate (club, dagger, rapier) with shield 3.86 dps
15. Spear with shield 3.74 dps
16.  sword/battleax with shield 3.72 dps
17. hatchet with shield 3.71 dps

 

But these calculations are based on flat weapon damage and attack speed not including accuracy bonus, chance to score a critical hit and critical hit power, right?

 

I don't find one handed weapon style useful at all (miss to graze), cause you already, probably, focusing on maximum accuracy, so your miss chance is pretty low, thus this passive in PoE I with chance to turn hit into crit was way better.

Still, playing on PotD, even with 20+ perception I often miss hits using dual wielding weapons, so I may be harsh with evaluation, in situations when a graze can interrupt an enemy...

Havn't made my mind up yet.

 

 

I think he takes the accuracy bonus into account for this rank list of weapons, it gives a general idea of how good weapon style and weapons are now, even not so accurate.

[Mack]

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

 

That's a good idea. I mentioned adding Interrupt before, but high Interrupt is a feature of two handed weapons, so that bonus arguably would dilute the styles. Your suggestion keeps them distinct and also makes intuitive sense.

[Boeroer]

Yes, I like it as well. Also throwing an explosive, using any non-weapon-related ability (Lay on Hands for example) should be faster (animation time, not necessarily recovery time).

[jones092201@gmail.com]

I have asked this same question (will single wield be worth it) about every RPG of this nature since Dragon Age: Origins.

 

Honestly, I doubt the answer will ever be yes.

 

1.  you'd have to build animations specifically for it.  (but seriously-- no fencing style in a game about pirates?)

2. you'd have to give a bonus which is more interesting than +ACC and miss to graze.

[Nanawatzin]

I personally prefer the Dev to combine one handed style with new sword/pistol ‘style’.

 

That's interesting. Never heard about that to be fair. :3

[Kaylon]

I think 1h style should get a penetration bonus instead of graze to hit.

[hilfazer]

2H style capitalizes on DPH,

DW style capitalizes on attack speed,

sword and board capitalizes on defense,

so 1H style should capitalize on accuracy.

 

But hit->crit from PoE1 is fine too.

[Boeroer]

I always wondered why that conversion thing when you could also give additional bonus accuracy via style (that stacks with the +12 from one handed wielding).

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I always wondered why that conversion thing when you could also give additional bonus accuracy via style (that stacks with the +12 from one handed wielding).

Probably so it's different than the style bonus. I'd say that is a better solution than miss to graze, especially considering single wield is the least likely to miss in the first place.

[gGeorg]

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

That !

- quick access to quick slots (one free hand should quickly access an use items)

- disengage bonus defence

also for one-and-halfhand weapons like quarterstaff. Use staff as a cane, cast with a free hand or drink a potion.

Edited February 9, 2018 by gGeorg

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

One-handed Style should reduce recovery times for non-combat actions taken,

 

Examples:

 

- using a potion

 

- casting a spell

 

Idea is, you lose offensive ability (extra weapon, or 2-hander) OR defensive ability (shield) in exchange for having highly reduced recovery on all your other actions.  Since you have a hand free, you can do those other actions more quickly.

 

If you're tanking, there's no way you're giving up a shield, and if you're doing damage, there's absolutely no way One-Handed Style can compete with 2-Hander / Dual-Wield power.  It's just not going to happen, forget it.

 

Instead of trying to make One-Handed Style somehow comparable to damage dealing / tanking, give it something else, something unique.  One hand free = 75% reduced recovery times across the board, for example.

That !

- quick access to quick slots (one free hand should quickly access an use items)

- disengage bonus defence

also for one-and-halfhand weapons like quarterstaff. Use staff as a cane, cast with a free hand or drink a potion.

 

I think that's over-complicating it. Honestly if it was +3 Accuracy and 15% Hits to Crits for the talent/ability and the same +12 to Accuracy for just doing it then we'd be fine.

[Boeroer]

Fine maybe. But the idea to speed up certain actions that have nothing to do with weapon use is nice and would make the style much more appealing to all sorts of chars and not only dps or crit seekers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Seems like a headache to get down though, and at this point I'd like them to make single weapon competitive outside of sabres in terms of damage or fix casting times than add more to the weapon styles.

[gGeorg]

Seems like a headache to get down though, and at this point I'd like them to make single weapon competitive outside of sabres in terms of damage or fix casting times than add more to the weapon styles.

There are grenades and bombs. More consumables generally. Request for DPS output leveling out with all other weapon style sounds wierd. I expect the weapon style is THE style. 

Think out of box dude.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Seems like a headache to get down though, and at this point I'd like them to make single weapon competitive outside of sabres in terms of damage or fix casting times than add more to the weapon styles.

There are grenades and bombs. More consumables generally. Request for DPS output leveling out with all other weapon style sounds wierd. I expect the weapon style is THE style. 

Think out of box dude.

 

You're asking for a system that already needs a lot of tuning regarding casting times, multiclass/power level, and armor/penetration to be even more complicated by the introduction of a new bonus regarding consumables. If they were to add this, they'd have to run through several passes attempting to ensure it isn't OP or UP, time which would be much better spent making sure the stuff already in isn't horribly implemented. As it stands, keeping single weapons as the accurate choice serves a purpose for balance and just needs to be tweaked in terms of the talent/ability and weapon balance to function well.