Please Revert the Might Changes

[tinysalamander]

You shouldn’t have to pay feat taxes to fix errors in system design, IMO. And “stat-switching” promotes stat dumping.

[BrettNLowe]

Actually, Davriel, my original post also argued for divorcing ability damage and healing from Might on a mechanical level as well, not just because I hate muscle wizards.

 

(Incidentally, I don't hate muscle wizards, if that is actually what they were. But muscle wizards did not actually fit the lore - again, see Concelhaut. Anyway, this is getting away from the point.)

 

Again, I don't want to rewrite everything, but the short version was that Might affected too many things, and also percentage increases made it have way more of an impact on ability damage than it did on auto-attacks.

 

Also, as another aside, Might was overrated as a Cipher stat in POE1. Dex and Perception were far superior due to Might's additive nature. Now that it is multiplicative, though, it is valuable to Ciphers again. Another reason to put Whip and Might bonuses back in the same category.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Actually, Davriel, my original post also argued for divorcing ability damage and healing from Might on a mechanical level as well, not just because I hate muscle wizards.

 

(Incidentally, I don't hate muscle wizards, if that is actually what they were. But muscle wizards did not actually fit the lore - again, see Concelhaut. Anyway, this is getting away from the point.)

 

Again, I don't want to rewrite everything, but the short version was that Might affected too many things, and also percentage increases made it have way more of an impact on ability damage than it did on auto-attacks.

 

Also, as another aside, Might was overrated as a Cipher stat in POE1. Dex and Perception were far superior due to Might's additive nature. Now that it is multiplicative, though, it is valuable to Ciphers again. Another reason to put Whip and Might bonuses back in the same category.

 

 

Yeah, pure multiplicative might is a small issue, but I'd argue that str/res doesn't really fix that issue, it just spreads it around; Str Barbarians are just as problematic as Might Barbarians. 

 

MaxQuest's proposed breakdown of bonuses into additive categories, which are then multiplied, is the best solution I've seen to that issue ( https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94949-should-might-stay-multiplicative-or-return-to-additive/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1963575 )

[dunehunter]

I'd rather see small changes to stats than these big changes, need to bear in mind that all Affliction, Inspiration are tied to stats so any changes can make a lot different and need fix latter.

[mp2267]

Agree. Improve the use of Resolve doesn't mean you need to nerf the use of Might. Also, I hate the concept of turning Resolve to be a magic stuff.

[Vladmorik]

I feel just having a straight Strength stat, over all, makes the most sense. I definitely agree that it makes things awkward for porting over characters from the first game due to a core stat difference, but Might never really made sense to begin with. The all inclusive meta concept of stronk was very gamey, very anti-immersion, and kind of plot-holey all around, due to the already patch-notes-included reason of 'This wizard is a book worm, does no physical exercise in any way shape or form, but is capable of benching 350lb as a side effect of being good with magic'.

Might just being this metaphysical concept of being powerful was.. it just didn't feel like a *stat*. It felt like a random modifier you'd get from a buff, rather than a core physical or mental aspect of a person.

Also, as for Resolve being the magic stat, it makes a lot of sense over all. Force of will is a very classical concept when it comes to defining how strong one's magic is, in pretty much every fantasy setting to date aside from your generic scholar wizard. Think of a corny movie with a main character using magic; they use Force of Will to do 'The Thing.' Sorcerers from D&D are based on Charisma and thematically scored as using Force of Will to better use their inherent magical prowess.

[vanyel54]

If Obsidian want to get rid of the muscle wizard why keep the rod/wand based on strength ? That doesn't seems logical.

And the patch justification for the change seems really "short thinking". Oh yeah Resolve seems to be really dumped now, so lets change everything and see what occurs   

With this change you beat down the hybrid classes (melee/spells) at the time when you introduce the multi-class. Really strange...

[Wormerine]

This game is a sequel and people are going to want to import their characters from the prior game with a minimum of re-adjustment.

 

I am pretty sure it was confirmed that importing save will still rewuire character creation - your choices will be imported, not the character.

 

Whenever changes are for good or bad, I wouldn’t accept “but it was like that in the first game” as a valid point. It’s different game, what was in the first game is only relevant as a point of reference. I don’t think there is something like “mechanic’s lore”.

[Wormerine]

With this change you beat down the hybrid classes (melee/spells) at the time when you introduce the multi-class. Really strange...

This argument appears over and over again, and I really don’t get it. I imagine that when you create a multiclass character you want his skills to supplement each other, not overlap. You won’t create a mage/fighter, who will focus on DPSing with weapon while DPSing with spells, rather one who locks enenemies down with fighter abilities to DPS with spells, or CC with spells to DPS with weapons, or cast magic weapons/buff yourself to DPS with weapons etc.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

With this change you beat down the hybrid classes (melee/spells) at the time when you introduce the multi-class. Really strange...

This argument appears over and over again, and I really don’t get it. I imagine that when you create a multiclass character you want his skills to supplement each other, not overlap. You won’t create a mage/fighter, who will focus on DPSing with weapon while DPSing with spells, rather one who locks enenemies down with fighter abilities to DPS with spells, or CC with spells to DPS with weapons, or cast magic weapons/buff yourself to DPS with weapons etc.

 

 

The difference is that with Might, you have the choice to make (for example) a fighter/cleric who is good at both fighting and healing, or a fighter/wizard who can both cast damage spells and fight with a blade. You *can* specialize if you want  --- and make, say, a summoned-weapon fighter -- but it isn't directly encouraged by the system and the failure to specialize isn't penalized in the same direct way.

 

With Str/Res, though, you're limited; you can make a fighter/cleric, but you'll need to choose between fighting and healing; you can make a fighter/wizard, but you'll have to choose between offensive spells and offensive weapons. 

\The game appears to be allowing you to make more diverse and open character builds by implementing multi-classing, but if you actually try to make a character that's good at more than one thing, you'll get penalized due to the stat system.

 

People get excited about multi-classing because they want to make more diverse and varied characters, not because they want new ways to get locked into the same narrow roles.

 

It's similar to the argument for allowing all classes to pick open talents; in some ways, despite multiclassing, Deadfire has made some moves that effectively restrict build diversity (I'd specifically point to the Str/Res change and the elimination of open talents). In the original game, it was relatively easy to take any single-class character and build them to fit multiple roles (fighter and healer; crowd control and offensive damage; weapon damage and spell damage; etc.) . If Str/Res and no open talents remain in Deadfire, it'll be harder, despite multiclassing.  

 

 

Said another way, a PoE 1 Cleric with stacked Might and some weapon talents looks likely to be better at both fighting and healing than a PoE 2 Fighter/Cleric with points split between Might and Resolve looks to be at either. Of course the Deadfire Fighter/Cleric can choose to specialize in either offensive damage or healing . . . but then they lose effectiveness with the other, and functionally end up less of a hybrid than their PoE 1 predecessor.

 

 

I am pretty sure it was confirmed that importing save will still rewuire character creation - your choices will be imported, not the character.

 

Whenever changes are for good or bad, I wouldn’t accept “but it was like that in the first game” as a valid point. It’s different game, what was in the first game is only relevant as a point of reference. I don’t think there is something like “mechanic’s lore”.

 

 

There have been a lot of people posting that they just want to re-produce their characters from the first game in the second, and Deadfire was marketed & fig-campaigned on the premise that you'd be able to do that. A certain amount of change is inevitable and to be expected of course, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect the fundamentals to be broadly similar.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[JerekKruger]

I am pretty sure it was confirmed that importing save will still rewuire character creation - your choices will be imported, not the character.

 

It's not about whether or not you can change your imported character's attributes, but whether or not you want to. Obsidian themselves couched the Might/Resolve change in role-playing terms, and from a role-playing point of view I dislike the idea of my character's core abilities changing if they are to carry on fulfilling the same role. Yes, it's a feel argument rather than a hard mechanical reason why the change is bad, but that doesn't make it invalid and it certainly isn't any less valid than those who didn't like the idea of Might governing spell damage.

[Roda]

 

 

With this change you beat down the hybrid classes (melee/spells) at the time when you introduce the multi-class. Really strange...

This argument appears over and over again, and I really don’t get it. I imagine that when you create a multiclass character you want his skills to supplement each other, not overlap. You won’t create a mage/fighter, who will focus on DPSing with weapon while DPSing with spells, rather one who locks enenemies down with fighter abilities to DPS with spells, or CC with spells to DPS with weapons, or cast magic weapons/buff yourself to DPS with weapons etc.

 

 

The difference is that with Might, you have the choice to make (for example) a fighter/cleric who is good at both fighting and healing, or a fighter/wizard who can both cast damage spells and fight with a blade. You *can* specialize if you want  --- and make, say, a summoned-weapon fighter -- but it isn't directly encouraged by the system and the failure to specialize isn't penalized in the same direct way.

 

With Str/Res, though, you're limited; you can make a fighter/cleric, but you'll need to choose between fighting and healing; you can make a fighter/wizard, but you'll have to choose between offensive spells and offensive weapons. 

\The game appears to be allowing you to make more diverse and open character builds by implementing multi-classing, but if you actually try to make a character that's good at more than one thing, you'll get penalized due to the stat system.

 

People get excited about multi-classing because they want to make more diverse and varied characters, not because they want new ways to get locked into the same narrow roles.

 

It's similar to the argument for allowing all classes to pick open talents; in some ways, despite multiclassing, Deadfire has made some moves that effectively restrict build diversity (I'd specifically point to the Str/Res change and the elimination of open talents). In the original game, it was relatively easy to take any single-class character and build them to fit multiple roles (fighter and healer; crowd control and offensive damage; weapon damage and spell damage; etc.) . If Str/Res and no open talents remain in Deadfire, it'll be harder, despite multiclassing.  

 

 

Said another way, a PoE 1 Cleric with stacked Might and some weapon talents looks likely to be better at both fighting and healing than a PoE 2 Fighter/Cleric with points split between Might and Resolve looks to be at either. Of course the Deadfire Fighter/Cleric can choose to specialize in either offensive damage or healing . . . but then they lose effectiveness with the other, and functionally end up less of a hybrid than their PoE 1 predecessor.

 

 

I am pretty sure it was confirmed that importing save will still rewuire character creation - your choices will be imported, not the character.

 

Whenever changes are for good or bad, I wouldn’t accept “but it was like that in the first game” as a valid point. It’s different game, what was in the first game is only relevant as a point of reference. I don’t think there is something like “mechanic’s lore”.

 

 

There have been a lot of people posting that they just want to re-produce their characters from the first game in the second, and Deadfire was marketed & fig-campaigned on the premise that you'd be able to do that. A certain amount of change is inevitable and to be expected of course, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect the fundamentals to be broadly similar.

 

 

I see stats spread as a must for multiclass. As I said in almost every game multiclass system gives you more resources in exchange of power (you can see that in abilities right now). You "can" fight and "can" heal, but you cant do it as good as a pure one. I dont see the problem with 14-14 instead of full 18 in might for example and I cant see why a character wont be worth like that. I think people are overreacting right now, but maybe I am wrong. Stats spread Its always good for a system in my opinion, stacking things into one stat with a multiclass system could be less apealing but almos sure it would be problematic.

As for the small changes vs big changes I think this is the moment to test big changes. It would be very me bad to test these closer to the release I think.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

I see stats spread as a must for multiclass. As I said in almost every game multiclass system gives you more resources in exchange of power (you can see that in abilities right now). You "can" fight and "can" heal, but you cant do it as good as a pure one. I dont see the problem with 14-14 instead of full 18 in might for example and I cant see why a character wont be worth like that. I think people are overreacting right now, but maybe I am wrong. Stats spread Its always good for a system in my opinion, stacking things into one stat with a multiclass system could be less apealing but almos sure it would be problematic.

As for the small changes vs big changes I think this is the moment to test big changes. It would be very me bad to test these closer to the release I think.

 

 

 

This is . . .  actually a really good point.  For single player games this is usually exactly how you want the balance to go -- in something like Skyrim, it makes sense to have players balance versatility vs. specialization in a 1 for 1 tradeoff.

 

The difference I'd point to is that PoE is a party-based game, and in a party based game specialization is inherently rewarded -- all else being equal, it's usually better to have one dedicated healer and one dedicated tank than to have two paladins. So you actually want to give hybrids a slight boost, relatively speaking. Compare with medium armor -- Sawyer has commented in the streams that the game gives medium armors a slight stat boost, because normally people either go lightest-possible or heaviest-possible, so you have to give the medium armors a boost "above curve" to get anyone to use them at all. Another good example is the "power level" mechanic -- dual class characters don't have a 50% power level, it's more like 75% to 90%or so (I think? somewhere in there). 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Roda]

 

 

 

I see stats spread as a must for multiclass. As I said in almost every game multiclass system gives you more resources in exchange of power (you can see that in abilities right now). You "can" fight and "can" heal, but you cant do it as good as a pure one. I dont see the problem with 14-14 instead of full 18 in might for example and I cant see why a character wont be worth like that. I think people are overreacting right now, but maybe I am wrong. Stats spread Its always good for a system in my opinion, stacking things into one stat with a multiclass system could be less apealing but almos sure it would be problematic.

As for the small changes vs big changes I think this is the moment to test big changes. It would be very me bad to test these closer to the release I think.

 

 

 

This is . . .  actually a really good point.  For single player games this is usually exactly how you want the balance to go -- in something like Skyrim, it makes sense to have players balance versatility vs. specialization in a 1 for 1 tradeoff.

 

The difference I'd point to is that PoE is a party-based game, and in a party based game specialization is inherently rewarded -- all else being equal, it's usually better to have one dedicated healer and one dedicated tank than to have two paladins. So you actually want to give hybrids a slight boost, relatively speaking. Compare with medium armor -- Sawyer has commented in the streams that the game gives medium armors a slight stat boost, because normally people either go lightest-possible or heaviest-possible, so you have to give the medium armors a boost "above curve" to get anyone to use them at all. Another good example is the "power level" mechanic -- dual class characters don't have a 50% power level, it's more like 75% to 90%or so (I think? somewhere in there). 

 

 

You are right there. Sometimes I forgot the party factor xD, but we cant have the resourses from all classes in a party (and we have a 5 man party now) so yes I think that what you say its true to a certain level reducing the value of the multiclass; but having a pure priest and a half priest for example can still give you some versatility. You can apply this to a lot of multiclasses, they will give you always more versatility even within a party. But what you said brings another big problem I have right now:

Do I chose single player only because they hit harder (just an example)? It could be, but I dont like it. I would prefer to chose to be single class because I have access to unique and "usefull" resourses that multicass cant. That way you would not be forced to apply a malus (stat distribution, less powerfull abilities, etc) to multicass to compensate. Make single class an unique option with unique resources and not some bored class that only hits harder or heal better or hug thicker trees. Single class would be just as fun and multiclass would not feel lame (not sure if it is the right word). Thats what I think.

I didnt knew the medium armor info. I like it.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Roda

[Davrial]

 

 

I see stats spread as a must for multiclass. As I said in almost every game multiclass system gives you more resources in exchange of power (you can see that in abilities right now). You "can" fight and "can" heal, but you cant do it as good as a pure one. I dont see the problem with 14-14 instead of full 18 in might for example and I cant see why a character wont be worth like that. I think people are overreacting right now, but maybe I am wrong. Stats spread Its always good for a system in my opinion, stacking things into one stat with a multiclass system could be less apealing but almos sure it would be problematic.

As for the small changes vs big changes I think this is the moment to test big changes. It would be very me bad to test these closer to the release I think.

 

 

You have a fairly solid argument there, but the main flaw with that idea is the fact that multiclassing already makes the character worse at both classes due to how the resources mechanic works. Making them spread out their stats on top of having less power-resources would make them extra worse in comparison. They will already be getting all their abilities slower, and wont be getting their top-level abilities, so forcing them to have lower relevant stats is essentially kneecapping them.

 

As for making big changes to the stat system, IMO it should not be done in Deadfire. Not this change nor any other drastic core stats change. Deadfire was sold as PoE 2, people expect consistency of core stats and mechanics between sequels. If this was supposed to be a different series with similar core mechanics then it would be fine, but such a drastic change should not be made to the core stats of a sequel. The third game in a series mixing it up might be acceptable, but definitely not the second, not this soon.

[Roda]

 

 

 

I see stats spread as a must for multiclass. As I said in almost every game multiclass system gives you more resources in exchange of power (you can see that in abilities right now). You "can" fight and "can" heal, but you cant do it as good as a pure one. I dont see the problem with 14-14 instead of full 18 in might for example and I cant see why a character wont be worth like that. I think people are overreacting right now, but maybe I am wrong. Stats spread Its always good for a system in my opinion, stacking things into one stat with a multiclass system could be less apealing but almos sure it would be problematic.

As for the small changes vs big changes I think this is the moment to test big changes. It would be very me bad to test these closer to the release I think.

 

 

You have a fairly solid argument there, but the main flaw with that idea is the fact that multiclassing already makes the character worse at both classes due to how the resources mechanic works. Making them spread out their stats on top of having less power-resources would make them extra worse in comparison. They will already be getting all their abilities slower, and wont be getting their top-level abilities, so forcing them to have lower relevant stats is essentially kneecapping them.

 

As for making big changes to the stat system, IMO it should not be done in Deadfire. Not this change nor any other drastic core stats change. Deadfire was sold as PoE 2, people expect consistency of core stats and mechanics between sequels. If this was supposed to be a different series with similar core mechanics then it would be fine, but such a drastic change should not be made to the core stats of a sequel. The third game in a series mixing it up might be acceptable, but definitely not the second, not this soon.

 

 

I suposse it depends, I have not problem at all with the change right now, but I inderstand your point. Anyway what I wanted to say is that I preffer the bigger changes now instead of close to the release date, maybe I didnt make a good job explaining myself xD.

About the resource system thats what I was talking about in the previous post. I neves liked the idea of malus to compensate. Thats why I im on the side of unique resources for single class instead of bonus to single class or malus to multi class. Right now I would never play a single class, Its boring as hell and their bonus isnt needed at normal difficult levels (time could prove me wrong). Thats why I think single class should be removed or changed to something more appealing at the same time you remove the malus from multiclass. But lets stay real, its a little difficult to make any of those because of the resoure mechanic...maybe POE3.

And remember that these changes are not definitive a all. So we can go back to might anytime. I tested and have not problem at all with any of the two but I preffer strenght/resolve (or a third option).

[Wormerine]

About the resource system thats what I was talking about in the previous post. I neves liked the idea of malus to compensate. Thats why I im on the side of unique resources for single class instead of bonus to single class or malus to multi class. Right now I would never play a single class, Its boring as hell and their bonus isnt needed at normal difficult levels (time could prove me wrong). Thats why I think single class should be removed or changed to something more appealing at the same time you remove the malus from multiclass.

I don't know, I want those higher level abilities. As I like creating very narrow focused characters I will be mostly interested in single classes. There are some really fun multiclasses you can come up with in beta, but without having access to full skill tree its difficult to say what we are losing. Right now muliclassing feels way better as we don't really get a feel of how will they scale on higher levels.

 

I think multiclassing is very cleverly implimented in Deadfire. Clear, easy to understand and plan out. How it is balance wise - no idea.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Wormerine

[Jojobobo]

Something I was thinking about is that if you play Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper or the games), a vampire's physical appearance never normally changes, but they can still get - even surpassing the limits of human strength. I thought always thought of the approach in Pillars being more or less the same thing, where Might means you could be muscle bound or you could be semi-mystically powerful and strong.

 

I think by giving both healing and spell damage to Resolve, they start to make the mechanics more arbitrary - as all casters are now inherently more tanky and so they will probably have to heavily nerf their base Deflection to accommodate for this (some caster classes had low Deflection in PoE 1, but others like Ciphers and Chanters didn't). This would be totally awkward and counter-intuitive to a balance problem the devs themselves have created, which doesn't really feel like how game mechanics should be produced.

 

I'm not even really a fan of healing being attached to Resolve either, as it makes the complex system of attribute choice in the first game a lot more simple (I'm playing a tank, so I take Resolve - as it's now both healing and defences). I think they need to add a new benefit to Resolve, without assigning it something belonging to a different attribute in PoE 1. Maybe something like casting speed possibly, and have Dex more focussed on recovery speed or only melee attack speed - I don't know.

[Fluffle]

As for making big changes to the stat system, IMO it should not be done in Deadfire. Not this change nor any other drastic core stats change. Deadfire was sold as PoE 2, people expect consistency of core stats and mechanics between sequels. If this was supposed to be a different series with similar core mechanics then it would be fine, but such a drastic change should not be made to the core stats of a sequel. The third game in a series mixing it up might be acceptable, but definitely not the second, not this soon.

 

Yeah, well said. That's what I've been thinking for a while now, too. I would have expected that the core mechanics of PoE would have been refined only. But some changes, like this one for example, seem to be rather big changes. Or take the different health/injury system as another example.

 

Yes, you can find many arguments for or against each such major change. The point is, this is a sequel. I am coming from PoE1 and when I am going to play PoE2 I would like to be familiar with the core mechanics of the game. I would like to recognize them from the first game to a much higher extent than I fear I am going to recognize them now.

 

Also, this keeps me wondering: Were the core mechanics of PoE1 really THAT bad? Or THAT in need of SUCH an overhaul?

 

"people expect consistency of core stats and mechanics between sequels"

Yes, call me one of those people. That's what I would expect.

[Wormerine]

Well, all those complaigns are completely valid. Thats why you should never do direct sequels. If Obsidian would go with different protaginist, continuity wouldn't be much of a concern. Still, I believe majority for the changes are for the better and if they manage to nail the system before release not many people will care that much in the end. 

[Sedrefilos]

Also, this keeps me wondering: Were the core mechanics of PoE1 really THAT bad? Or THAT in need of SUCH an overhaul?

I don't think there are better mechanics for a party-based rpg out there yet. The mechanics change was a bit "whoot?!" for me too.

Although, I got to admit, as Wormerine said, some are for the better. But still...

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Also, this keeps me wondering: Were the core mechanics of PoE1 really THAT bad? Or THAT in need of SUCH an overhaul?

 

"people expect consistency of core stats and mechanics between sequels"

Yes, call me one of those people. That's what I would expect.

 

 

 

Pretty much every change they've made in this beta has been either in response to player complaints, part of the attempt to incorporate balanced multiclassing, or both.

 

Players complained that Grazes usually felt inconsequential for damaging attacks, overpowered for CC/Affliction attacks, and generally confused them, math-wise.

 

BTW, almost all long cast spells (e.g. Fireball) inherently have Graze.

I've seen this preface a lot when talking about new or changed mechanics.  Almost every change we've made has been due to feedback on Pillars 1.

 

* People complained that the DR system felt "mushy" because it was a linear, sliding scale (it also didn't deal well with high damage values) and caused damage value bloat.

 

* People complained that most of the general Talents felt generic.

 

* People didn't get the Endurance/Health split.

 

* People either didn't understand the purpose behind the camping supplies system or understood it but burned up all of their per rest resources every encounter anyway.

 

* People didn't like the mushiness of the Interrupt/Concentration system and that Interrupts seemed relatively low impact.

 

* People were overwhelmed by the sheer number of priest and druid spells they got at every power level.

 

* People didn't like that there was an entire category of priest spells that existed just to counter Afflictions.

 

There's very little that we've changed that wasn't the result of player feedback.  In all of these cases there was either a contentious group opposing the change, but we proceeded because we felt ultimately it would produce a more consistent experience for more players, or there was no serious contention that I/we ever saw.

 

 

(Josh Sawyer posts on Somethingawful, both from a few weeks back now so a bit outdated).

 

I think what's happening with the Might --> Str changes is that 1) Resolve needed a boost (true), 2) it's easier to move something from a different stat than to come up with a whole new thing for Res (true), and 3) a lot of players were vocally complaining because Might helping Wizards just doesn't fit with their AD&D character template so it's wrong and needs to change (hence why Sawyer commented "all your dreams are coming true!" when he announced the change).

 

I suspect the issue with a lot of these changes is that the people who liked things as-is (i.e., Might) were quiet and content, while the people who wanted change (Str) were very vocal. 

[JerekKruger]

I suspect the issue with a lot of these changes is that the people who liked things as-is (i.e., Might) were quiet and content, while the people who wanted change (Str) were very vocal.

 

Exactly. There was no need to talk about something that we liked and that, as far as we were aware, wasn't going anywhere. Now it's under threat of course we're going to become more vocal.

[AndreaColombo]

To think the whole thing, as far as the beta is concerned, stemmed from a thread where we (rightfully) complained about RES’s being useless. Nobody in that thread complained about MIG; RES was the only stat in need of a buff. The change to STR was not the way to go about it.

Edited December 31, 2017 by AndreaColombo

[Fluffle]

Well, let me quote myself from another thread:

 

 

Players have noted the following over the past few years:

• If you're a caster, there's often not much reason to invest in Resolve (especially in Deadfire).
• From a *~ roleplaying ~* perspective, it feels weird to have muscley wizards casting high damage fireballs because they can bench 350 lbs.

So we are making these changes for the next Backer Beta build:

• Strength - All Weapon Damage, Fortitude Defense
• Resolve - All Healing, All Spell Damage, Deflection Defense, Will Defense

To my opinion, that is because many players equal "Might" with "(Physical) Strength". And apparently, as has been pointed out, PoE1 uses that same interpretation in some interactions.

"Might" could have just been some abstract measure of "Power", whether actual muscle power or arcane power. And I think that was how it was originally intended to be interpreted.

If this was a new game, I'd be a fine either way. But it's a sequel. I must admit I am not too fond of too many changes of core mechanics in a sequel.

Furthermore I believe, at least to my knowledge, there is no consent in the Pillars community on this change, is there? Nor is there a consent on the change of the health system. Those are vigorously debated topics, are they not? Some of the major changes of the core mechanics feel like some of the players will be presented with a fait accompli.

You justify your changes by saying "Players have noted". For every such player that supports that change you may as well find a player who does not support it. The community seems to be split on some major changes. In such a case I would actually decide in favor of consistency with the first game.