Backer Beta First Impressions

[bleedthefreak]

Is performance all over the place for anyone else? I'm running an i7 and a GeForce 1080 Ti but only getting between 40-80 (it's a huge range) of frames, and sometimes in buildings it can be super smooth and sometimes like 25fps and really jerky. I went into the boat and that world map is 144fps solid.

[Ryz009]

Nah I'm having a bit of a mess with performance too. My comp's getting a bit long in the tooth i7 4790k and a 970 but still I shouldn't be getting super stuttering and framedrops.

[Frog Man]

I <3 obsidian. This game shows such tremendous promise. I’ve been delighted with the writing so far. The environments are beautiful and I can see exploration being a blast in this game.

 

Also, thank you for letting our casters be casters! Per rest abilities are amazing. Having a ton of fun in combat but definitely need the half speed mode like others have mentioned.

 

Gosh, a lot to tweak and the game is just in beta, but this is going to be a thrilling journey!

[Katarack21]

I'm disliking the injury system about as much as I expected to. The problem just comes down to how powerful the injury effect is and how commonly it's inflicted. There is *no* reason for me to continue going at 50% health, and that happens *a lot*. Like...a *LOT* a lot. And because traps inflict injuries and injuries so grossly impact your character, it makes mechanics damn near mandatory.

[bonarbill]

Honestly, no universal talents is a deal breaker for me.  I would like to continue using my single class priest from PoE instead of going multi, and having no other talents (and even passives) besides spells is making the class extremely bland for me.

Edited November 16, 2017 by bonarbill

[PrimeJunta]

I think you guys already know what's good so I won't comment on that much. Main points though:

• Great job on the new stealth mechanics. The UI is intuitive and easy to understand and it feels a lot more "real."
• Great job on the various QoL improvements.
• World map is nice.
• Dialogue reactivity is nice.

 

The bad, however:

 

• Health/Endurance ---> Health only is a loss. Since there's no strategic cost, I don't care about taking some damage, which makes the game feel less "tactical."
• Everything per encounter is a loss. I don't care about which spell I should use now and which save for later, which makes magic feel spammy.
• Progression feels a lot more linear/streamlined. Magic doesn't feel all that magical as it's mixed with the rest of the talents, and the loss of non-class talents feels restrictive. 
• One of D&D's signature elements is a magic system that's kind of chaotic and has entirely its own rules and mechanics. Merging that into the level-up talent trees blands it down.

The upshot is that combat feels shallower. In Pillars 1, I had several layered objectives for a fight:

1. Win it.
2. Don't have anyone knocked out (because I don't want knockout injuries).
3. Don't take damage on those characters that can't afford it.
4. Don't expend spells or other per-rest abilities unnecessarily.

In P2, I just have

1. Win it.
2. Don't have anyone knocked out.
3. Don't expend Empowers unnecessarily.

Overall:

• The mechanical changes are mostly bad. The game feels streamlined and simplified in a bad way. Less thought is needed to play it, I just need to focus on the current combat and nothing else, and there appears to be less freedom to build my characters like I want them, despite the mass of subclasses and multi-class combinations.
• The QoL improvements are mostly good and the UI -- especially character creation and level-up -- are way better.
• The stealth system rocks. 

 

Finally, a comment on the language -- certainly too late to change now, but anyway for what it's worth: I interact daily with people from literally all over the world, and nobody talks like that. The Russians don't go "Da, today is very nice day, harasho nyet?" and the French don't go "Oui mon ami, indeed the weather today is la belle." It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

Edited November 16, 2017 by PrimeJunta

[Katarack21]

 

Health/Endurance ---> Health only is a loss. Since there's no strategic cost, I don't care about taking some damage, which makes the game feel less "tactical."

It's even worse then that. Two major injuries automatically puts you at 50% health. Injuries effectively *are* your endurance now; more than two of them, and it's really a bad idea to go into a combat zone. It makes me *want* to rest a whole lot more often than with the endurance split, because then I could calculate between the two pools and sometimes make the decision to press farther without resting; here, at two injuries and half health I feel like I *have* to rest.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Katarack21

[PrimeJunta]

It's even worse then that. Two major injuries automatically puts you at 50% health. Injuries effectively *are* your endurance now; more than two of them, and it's really a bad idea to go into a combat zone. It makes me *want* to rest a whole lot more often than with the endurance split, because then I could calculate between the two pools and sometimes make the decision to press farther without resting; here, at two injuries and half health I feel like I *have* to rest.

 

I disagree. Getting knocked out twice in a row in P1 would give you two knockout injuries and likely put your health in the red zone -- I'd want to rest at that point in it too. I.e. knockout injuries don't change my incentives much.

[Climhazzard]

Lots of thoughts here.

 

 

To begin, I'm really disappointed that there's still no kind of stand your ground option like the older infinity engine rpg's had.  It would be a vastly helpful option for tactical control.

 

 

Would really really like an option for slower combat speed.

 

 

I really hate the new penetration system.  The one used in the first game was much better imo, I didn't have to spend have my time studying the combat log/mob info to figure out what I should and should not attack with each character.  Also, immunities on top of the new penetration system is like poring salt in the wound, it really should just be one or the other.  A huge cutoff in damage for being off 1 point of penetration is terrible.  Also properly controlling incoming damage as a monk now is going to be virtually impossible if you don't have the penetration values of all the mobs in the game memorized....

 

 

Offensive affliction descriptions are always based on will, fortitude, and reflex, while descriptions for abilities that defend against afflictions are all based on attributes.  It should be one or the other instead of both, its' very confusing and you have no idea what abilities counter or don't counter which afflicitons from reading their descriptions.

 

 

Blunt weapon damage is seems to low?  Mace/warhammer do considerably less than sword at the same attack/recovery speeds.  EDIT:  I just realized blunt weapons have higher base penetration.

 

 

Character creation has a lot of issues, races don't show racial bonuses for example.  The culture attribute bonus doesn't show up in character creation.  Also I feel like you ought to be able to select it before you change attributes, or if not that then you should at least be able to switch between creation pages without hitting the next and previous buttons, same as you could in PoE.

 

 

It would be nice if Cipher spell descriptions showed focus cost, mainly for the Soul Blade who has low focus.

 

 

Quite a few abilities seem to be currently broken, torment's reach, force of anguish, and ancient memory, to name a few.

 

 

Character progression took a dive from PoE 1, since all the non class abilities got rolled up into the various classes, most of your customization is done at character creation.

 

 

Balance wise...  Monk is a huge disappointment compared to PoE 1.  Torment's reach has triple the cost for half the damage.  And swift strikes doesn't put him on anywhere near the level of auto attack damage a devoted/cipher does...  which may in itself be a bad outlier atm.  Clarity of agony being wound based is a nice change though. 

 

 

Spells have a huge cast time/recovery penalty, don't really like it...  your dual wield weapon expert can hit like a million times in the 10 seconds it takes a chanter to summon some mobs and recover.

 

 

Something positive, I love the new character/armor details, and hair options.

 

 

Well, that's all for now, I'll think of more later.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Climhazzard

[Aramintai]

So many things pointed out here already that I totally agree with. Good job, guys

 

I'm not quite done with the beta yet, but here's my list of initial impressions of what I liked:

+I like the new atmosphere and visual style in Deadfire, really feels like I'm in a new part of the game world. Reminds me of NWN2: Storm of Zehir alot.

 

+Graphics and animations seem to have improved on all fronts, which is always great to see.

 

+Character creator and new big character paper dolls look very nice.

 

+I like the beta version of the world map way more now than when it was a flat barren wasteland from the older builds. 

 

+Much improved area loading times

 

Things that I didn't like and/or I think are in need of tweaking:

-*Very* rigid class system. Single class now feels gimpy. Gone are the universal skills  - now if you want to have any build to even remotely resemble POE1's more flexible builds you *have* to take a second class. Even AD&D wasn't so stingy with combat skills and allowed any class to have them to varied degrees. It's not practical now to have a single class, especially if you're caster, because all casters skills are now just spells. So all in all, I think devs need to return to the drawing board with classes skills - right now they are sparse, some are weirdly restricted to few select classes and some feel underwhelming.

 

-Many subclasses feel gimpy and not worth taking. There must be more incentive for players to intentionally gimp themselves by choosing a subclass. My suggestion - give each subclass some unique skills.

 

-Where are the sub-race unique bonuses? For example, what's the incentive to choose between a wood elf or a pale elf except the aesthetics now?

 

-Combat still feels like a cluster**** at times. Maybe that removal of slow mode was a premature decision.

 

-Wounds removal is baffling - eat some crackers and cracked bones just heal themselves? Lol. Perhaps, instead of focusing on removal of negatives it's better to add positives instead. Make wounds heal themselves by simply resting, but add varied long lasting beneficial bonuses if you add food. Players love long lasting beneficial bonuses way more than annoying wounds that get accumulated easily after each fight or trap spring.

 

-Spellcasting times are too slow. Spells feel weak. Fighter enemies can skewer a spellcaster twice time over before he casts even a single spell, many of which feel weak even with empower compared to usual hack&slash.

 

-There definitely needs to be a better explanation about power usage for skills. Maybe a hoverable pop-up text in the combat bar.

 

-UI text needs to be bigger/better scaled for large resolutions. At 130% text scale only dialogue, scripted interactions and item descriptions had serviceable scaled text, but at the cost of cluttered text box, which has a rigid frame size. My suggestion - if the text itself is scaled into a bigger one, the text box itself should also automatically widen to accommodate it. Journal, pop-up texts are too tiny for large resolutions.

 

-UI interface windows also need to be bigger/better scaled for large resolutions. The only thing that is ok size wise in the inventory right now is the large character paper doll. I can't stress this enough if (but more likely, when) you're gonna port POE2 to consoles (which too have 4K resolution now) - everything needs to be bigger for better visibility! Don't be so stingy with screen space!

 

-Skills icons are too varied and confusing. There should be an option to choose between skills icons with hover text and actual skills names in the brackets like it was in POE1.

 

-Companions AI and scripts are in need of work and more detailed customization.

 

 

That's all for now. All in all, not bad for an early beta, I hope we'll get a chance to test newer builds regularly though.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Aramintai

[Boeroer]

Honestly, no universal talents is a deal breaker for me. I would like to continue using my single class priest from PoE instead of going multi, and having no other talents (and even passives) besides spells is making the class extremely bland for me.

Exactly. You can't play a priest now who's good in melee for example. Things like Two Handed Style and so on is now fighter only. Why was this taken away? It's terrible! And usually I'm not known for being a constant complainer...

Sure, classes are now very distinct, but also very boring if you don't multiclass. This may be no issue for the players who play one playthrough and are done, but for everybody who likes to fiddle around with builds and likes to do numerous playthrough this new ability system is a slap in the face. I never thought I would use this word because I hate it, but the Backer Beta feels "dumbed down". There you have it, I said it...

[Peter Bazooka]

Single class feels very weak compared to multi-classing and removing universal talents seems like it's going to kill creativity in builds.

[daven]

Hmmm... after reading all these comments my interest in the game has plummeted.

 

Question: IS THERE A WALK TOGGLE?!

Edited November 16, 2017 by daven

[Lamppost in Winter]

Some more impressions (perhaps I should finish the beta first, but I don't want to wait and possibly forget)

-Weapon hits feel really nice. My Wizard smashing a skeleton to bits with her staff was extremely satisfying.

 

-Is it just me, or are Rods more powerful than in PoE?

 

-Using Loud spells to distract patrolling enemies from stealth is Pretty Cool (namely, Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights, which actually seems to be more useful now that Dazed appears to be a stronger effect, and no Arcane Assault)

 

-I will say that some things that were formerly Priest/Wizard etc. Talents being Spells now isn't too bad, as I feel like those per-encounter Talents were to have something for the Vancian casters to do outside of their per-rest spells. That being said, the lack of upgrades (from what I've heard; I've personally not investigated too deeply) is missed.

 

-Adding onto that previous one, Grimoire Slam as a spell makes no sense.

 

-The named Engwithan Saint fight felt a bit cheesy with the mobs spawning in phases. I could swear on a few other encounters some dudes just showed up out of nowhere (I dunno if they were patrolling or just spawned in).

[theBalthazar]

The build options seem to be a lot more narrow with single classes because talents got removed and everything is class-specific now. 

 

 

+1

 

Just that for now.

 

I have not yet end to practice the beta. I will back soon here for a complet "review".

[Kelvedler]

I'm not sure if it's bug, but there is no difference how far from the target you stay, while sneaking. As long as you're in circle, time required to spot you is always the same.

That doesn't seem logical for me.

[MaxQuest]

Btw, can non-beta backers post their feedback here as well? 

[PrimeJunta]

Btw, can non-beta backers post their feedback here as well? 

 

I think it would be preferable if this forum is for beta feedback only, from people actually playing it. Second-hand feedback would muddy the waters. I don't think there's a rule against it however, but at the very least it would be polite to indicate that your feedback is from observation rather than direct experience.

[MaxQuest]

I think it would be preferable if this forum is for beta feedback only, from people actually playing it. Second-hand feedback would muddy the waters. I don't think there's a rule against it however, but at the very least it would be polite to indicate that your feedback is from observation rather than direct experience.

Thank you. Understood.

[Sedrefilos]

Here's an early opinion by a non-beta backer as formed by what I've watched up to now (because I do believe devs want to hear from us too, unless one wants to state utherwise).

 

Pretty much everything looks better than Pillars 1, especially characters, scripted interactions and dialogue options which is very good imo 'cuse these were the aspects I was looking forward that would up the roleplay experience the first one lacks (although it had the potential).

Combat looks fun enough and interesting and not as fast as many claim (I never used slow motion option in the original) BUT being not able to play it myself, I cannot comment on the problem Boeroer brought up (the one about universal talents and sucky single classes) which seems to dominate the conversations about th enegatives of the game and it has pretty much to do with combat (it raises good points, imo).

 

The background graphics, though, I'm sad to say, don't look that great (or at least as good seemed to me those of the original at the time) and, again, I have to bring up DOS2, as the latest iso-rpg, which dwarfs Deadfire's. But, as Adam Brennecke said, they lack final pass-over so we'll have to wait for the update that adds it in the (near I hope) future to have a final opinion. The lighting is very good, though, indeed

 

So there's my opinion at the time; I won't post frequently here (most likely not again until next beta update) and hopefully kept the waters clean and tidy for the actual players to engage in more constructive critisism

Edited November 16, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[tarasis]

Indoor location streaming is a wonderful thing! Makes exploring town areas much more fluid. I did encounter some minor stutters when exploring town back and forth (my guess is streaming rest of the map?). I use HDD drive.

 

Wasn't aware this feature was coming. Excellent!

[Frog Man]

Btw, can non-beta backers post their feedback here as well? 

I  mean, this is MaxQuest dude, we need his feedback whether he's playing or not. Next to Boeroer, he might be the most knowledgeable non-Obsidian POE guy in the world.

 

Max - why aren't you playing the beta? I assumed you'd be pulling all-nighters testing out builds! 

[Heijoushin]

My first impressions:

(I haven't played the story yet, just messing with character creation and combat)

 

Positive

- Visually, absolutely everything is stunning. Love the character dolls, the spell animations, everything!

- Love the new "poses". Especially that hunched, creepy one.

- Of course multi-classes are awesome. It's fun to now build characters thinking of potential synergy. On that note, assassin / sharpshooter is the class I've had the most success with so far. Stay out of harms way and just snipe everything + you get an extra animal meat shield. 

- Empower is reasonably interesting. It's cool to throw one super powerful spell, although it's a pity you can only do it once per combat. (And sucks if your super spell misses)

- Lots of little UI improvements. Like how you can see all the portraits on one page now instead of having to scroll through them. 

- I like how you've made a modal for every single weapon. 

- I like the eating when you rest thing. It feels much more logical to eat when resting than to only stuff your characters with food before a difficult fight (the only time I ate in Pillars 1)

- The resource system works okay I think. It gives you a little more flexibility than just being able to use each ability once or twice.

- Nice to be able to choose who does what in scripted interactions. 

 

Negative

- As Boeroer said, single class characters feel a little narrow. I mean, there's just not that much on the skill trees to choose from for single chars. Subclass mages in particular lose so many spell options that there's not much left. Awesome that there are so many sub-classes now, but I hope in Pillars of Eternity 3, you'll just focus on making more abilities;) 

- Mages feel a little weak. Or is it just me? The AI can also get pretty aggressive with going after your mage if you open combat with a spell. 

 

 

Finally, a comment on the language -- certainly too late to change now, but anyway for what it's worth: I interact daily with people from literally all over the world, and nobody talks like that. The Russians don't go "Da, today is very nice day, harasho nyet?" and the French don't go "Oui mon ami, indeed the weather today is la belle." It's cool that you've got a conlang but there's way too much of "That kamahima has tipu my raumanuma, if I ever catch him he's going to be kaunahini!" It's grating, and the hypertext kind of underlines the "Look at how clever we are" aspect of it.

 

lol! That actually kind of bugged me too! だってさ、we don't usually mix our languagesでしょう？ 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Heijoushin

[Gfted1]

I see a lot of comments that resting has been trivialized in PoE2, but my understanding is that this was countered by diminishing returns wrt food cost (and maybe something about puking?). How does the Rest system feel when considering the Food system?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

just so far from dinking around a bit:

 

1) the buttons need better highlighting; they go from like brass colored to gold colored and it's not clear ; for example, after my first levelup I wasn't clear if I'd finished levelling up or not

 

2) the pause menu needs a pause on ENEMY cast button, as it is if you switch all on you'll pause every time a guard in town enters the screen and casts their stance

 

3) Sure this is on the platter but the game needs to show racial bonus traits in character creation not just in game

 

4) Yowza wood elves and moon godlikes got nerfed

 

5) The skill selection is a lot more constricted than before which isn't necessarily bad just different

 

6) dissident background should get explosives skill

 

Otherwise still learning how it all fits together. The penetration system seems kinda brutal but I may just need to learn it better. Lagufaeth are the new Beetles.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy