Your perfect world state for PoE2 (NEW QUESTIONS UPDATE!)

[Messier-31]

You guys, I'm finishing my "perfect" playthrough of PoE1 and I plan on starting PoE2 with it as my foundation. I'm eager to know what is the most and least wanted world state in the community. The poll you see on top of this very thread is only to have Your attention. Because of a 3-question limit here on the forums I decided to give more room for your answers in a form of a google-survey-thingy. Not sure how it will work out, but I tried to make it as transparent as possible. Will share the results if it turns out there are problems in viewing them by participants.

 

There are 10 major questions in the survey (12 after the recent update). I know that not all choices/endings are present, but these are the things that I think may have the biggest impact for the sequel. That's why there are serious world-changing things (like animancy hearings outcome) and no lesser things (like fate of Gilded Vale).

 

​I also decided to ommit endings for companions that are not coming back in Deadfire.

 

So without any further ado, let's vote! Let's see what you want!

 

https://goo.gl/forms/CNNmHuqbJJn173li1

 

 

 

 

 

NEW QUESTIONS UPDATE!

 

Due to popular demand and my own realization I decided to add 2 more questions to the survey. Because there are 50+ votes already, this is my proposition to you: I EDITED THE POLL SO ALL QUESTIONS ARE NOT MANDATORY - VISIT THE POLL AGAIN AND FILL IN THE TWO LAST QUESTIONS ONLY, REGARDIN LLENGRATH AND THAOS.

 

If you're new to the poll feel free to answer all of the questions.

 

Now it is also possible to pick the "died" option fo the companions.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: When I was editing the name Breith Eaman in the survey someone already cast a vote, so now it seems there are two answers for this in the results (which is bad), but still one possibility to choose from (which is good). Sorry for the mixup.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Messier-31

[Messier-31]

IMPORTANT NOTE

 

One more thing. It's possible in the poll... but in the game you cannot take the Galawain's choice (strenghten the Dyrwood with souls, thus Pallegina is pardoned) and some other god's choice at the same time. Same applies to picking a god's choice and same god angered.

 

ANSWERS & RESULTS

 

Link to the answers (table form): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AKtNQg7xKL5mwZPiI6TrNMMoGNOjrFkNNVm0SYI8-7o/edit?usp=sharing

 

Link to the results (percentages): https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfU-QiwWJ7nfhOcABVcNvfu-h-XGH-gs0l-WL2nqus7NRzcMg/viewanalytics

Edited September 27, 2017 by Messier-31

[FlintlockJazz]

Well I have put up what I ended up with in my last playthrough that was intended to be my best one too, dunno if they are the 'best' results but they were what I ended up with regardless of what I was striving for.  For instance, I returned the Eyeless but would have tempered them if I could, but with all the other choices I made I couldn't do it and felt it was a better choice than killing them.  Not entirely convinced tempering them is necessarily good anyway, For Progress and all that!

 

Chose Hylea because I felt that if I had to choose, I would at least give something to those looking after their children against all hope.  Plus, the little sister of the boy who got murdered in Defiance Bay would then get to live and give his mother something after losing her son and being married to that scum.

[JerekKruger]

This will depend on which character I import from Pillars, which I haven't quite done, but once I do I'll make sure to complete the survey.

[morhilane]

I don't think there is a perfect playthrough of the game. I was mighty surprised in my first playthrough by Galawain's response to me not doing what he asked though so in my second one I went a bit less "take all the quests at any cost". Although, the pissed of gods are probably the coolest part of the ending, there is actually a consequences at promising everything to everyone...

 

I have never succeeded in getting "in favor of Anymancy" even when I tried...twice. Seems like I missed the orlan baby quest too.

 

I'm personally a Berath's choice person. At least, I think that's what I did last time. I need to check my save...and maybe replay the game for a 3rd time before POE2 gets released.

[MaxQuest]

What to do with the souls of hollowborn is always a tough choice to me.

 

I usually try to rule out options that I would obviously not pick, so it is:

- minus Skaen - because I do not feel like completing Thaos work

- minus Rymgrand - because he is super-seeded by Galawain - i.e. souls are destroyed, but at least there is some use of it

 

So the 4 choices remain:

- Hylea:

> pro: souls are returned to the bodies.

> con: legacy bagan 15 years ago, and many with the souls returned will be very delayed in their development.

> con: many will have to live with the fact that their neighbors' children did got the souls back, while their didn't. Many killed their hollow children themselves. And that's gonna be a new new source of grief.

- Berath:

> pro: when people die - souls get into the wheel anyway, so this is like a reset.

> con: we don't know the state of these souls, how much did they fragment and weaken, nor what stuff did they see/feel and how will all this influence their next lives.

- Wael:

> pro: maybe these souls will experience something new, undiscovered, that will help them strengthen.

> con: the unknown place is usually a bad idea, as you don't know how safe it is, nor if the souls will like it; could as well be another soul prison or some place of eternal torment.

- Galawain:

> pro: those who deserve the most (i.e. victims/dyrwoodans) are getting strengthened, and can leave the grief and move on.

> con: the souls are destroyed - which is bad if they are in good 'condition', or good if they are heavily fragmented.

 

Also do note: "Shadows are created when creatures with heavily fractured souls die without re-entering the cycle of rebirth."

P.S. I am mostly torn between Berath and Galawain. In order to make a wiser decision character would need to have more information. So far, voted for Galawain.

P.P.S. @Messier Here's the direct link to current percentages.

Edited September 27, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Messier-31]

I don't think there is a perfect playthrough of the game.

 

"Perfect" as in your desired state that you want to continue in PoE2.

 

Not as in "the best possible outcome".

 

 

 

P.P.S. @Messier Here's the direct link to current percentages.

 

Thanks, MaxQuest!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Messier-31

[morhilane]

 

I don't think there is a perfect playthrough of the game.

 

"Perfect" as in your desired state that you want to continue in PoE2.

 

Not as in "the best possible outcome".

 

I probably should have written "I don't have a perfect playthrough". I like trying stuff in the game and getting different end results.

[blotter]

You might want to include companion deaths as possible answers on the poll so the blood pool-feeders, players who abided by their deaths in combat, and others among us can denote these outcomes. 

 

My first Deadfire playthrough be with a character who, after killing Raedric VII and seeing the villagers huddling around the tree, grieving over the bodies they had strung up there as though they were victims of an atrocity rather than participants in it or at least passive enablers of it, decided that all them should be put the sword for their spinelessness and hypocrisy. The game would have let me recruit Eder after that like nothing happened, but I just couldn't think of a way in which that would make sense for his character so he had to die with them.

 

I did choose to feed the souls to Woedica one time out of curiosity in one game before reloading, but I have trouble seeing the motivation for a Watcher to actually do that. Sure, Skaen makes a pitch about getting Thaos' perks as part of the deal (and I couldn't help but think it was a huge missed opportunity not to be able to call out the god of defiance and violent rebellion on his apparent deference to Burned Queen), but considering how we've spent most of the game wrecking or interfering with her/Thaos' plans and so much has been made of her perfect memory and the inevitable retribution that awaits those who transgress against her rule, a last-minute change of heart to empower her seems as likely to leave her better positioned to lop your head off for your trouble as anything else. Especially without any assurances from the goddess herself that your crimes against her faith thus far would be overlooked.

 

As far as the other choices regarding the Engwithan machine are considered, I actually think returning the souls of the Hollowborn to their bodies seems far more thought-provoking and intriguing in its possibilities and implications than Wael's suggestion to randomly shuffle them off wherever. After all, if the Hollowborn make it back to their bodies, all sorts of questions arise: 

• Were the souls conscious within the machine, and if so, how will the decades of bodiless imprisonment shape them? Will they ever be fully connected to their bodies afterward or might they henceforth be prone to drifting away from it at times?
  
• Will the Hollowborn inherit memories from their bodies as they settle back into them? If so, how many of them will even be able to develop into autonomous beings under the weight of years spent in a passive, unfeeling haze? Even for those who do, how might the experience interfere with their ability to truly understand others or for others to truly understand them?
  
• Were the souls able to retain identities/definition as individual beings or did they begin to "bleed into" each other as a consequence of being bound together for so long and at such an early stage in their existence? In the latter case, you might be inflicting some Village of the Damned type of scenario on the Dyrwood, where what returns is some creepy, emotionless collective of mind-linked children.
  
• How reliable is the process of returning the souls to their bodies - especially considering the apparent strain of using the machine and the fact that it's your first time using it this way (or your first time after dozens of lifetimes, I can't remember which)? Are there cases where the souls don't make it to their intended destinations, awkwardly cohabitating bodies with the souls of other Hollowborn, free floating in the air as they dissolve with nothing to anchor them to this world, or twisting into shades as they struggle to sustain themselves without flesh?
  
• What happens to the vessels which are roving around as Wichts? Do the animal souls, which have had the advantage of being housed in a living body over the course of their development, prove the stronger and devour the newly returned souls of the Hollowborn, do the Hollowborn prevail and subsume/banish the animal souls, do they come to coexist with each other, or is there a combination of all these outcomes overall, varying from individual to individual? All of these results beg all sorts of questions of their own.
  

And that's without even getting into how the various ways in which their return would impact other Dyrwoodans or to what extent your intentions would mitigate your culpability for any of these outcomes. By contrast, with Wael's option, I'd argue that too little is known to even ask questions aside from very general ones like "where are the souls?", "what are they doing?", and/or "what's happening to them?" It's hard to evaluate or even identify specific possibilities without more details to work with, after all. Furthermore, the number of people who would even know to ask these questions would be limited to you, companions for the final battle (and maybe not even them if they're unable to actually see or make sense of what you've done), and anyone you/your companions choose to tell who believes the story. For everyone else, there's basically no difference between Wael's suggestion,  Berath's, or Rymrgand's in terms of the level of mystery involved since, for all they know, the souls of Hollowborn were bound back to the Wheel from day one. Ironically, this seems to be fairly at odds with what the game leads us to believe is his purpose, but I guess calling that into question would actually be considered a perk for him.

 

In the case of Galawain's proposition for the souls, it's arguably crueler than Rymrgand/Ondra's. In a very real way, what you're doing here is tearing the remains of these children to pieces and force-feeding them to their parents/guardians and siblings, in the case of those children or teenagers who managed to be born before the Legacy or during those brief periods where the Leaden Key lapsed in their operation of the machines long enough for newborn souls to slip through. And that's only when the tasty soul bits you're doling out don't find their way into the bellies of monsters and animals that may end up preying on these same families in turn. On top of that, the Dyrwoodans will likely be unwittingly celebrating your decision to mangle and scatter the souls of their Hollowborn offspring this way for generations to come.

 

I'd say that perhaps the greatest advantage of Berath's suggestion is that it allows for the possibility of the souls' return in some form without all the uncertainties or potential moral issues of the ones I've discussed above. Granted, there's still plenty of room to question whether it's morally acceptable to send them back to the Wheel without allowing them a chance to experience this life, but that seems like a much more tidy debate than one in which both sides consider the pros and cons of forcing families to cannibalize the souls of their sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews, nieces, or whatever else, for example (with no judgement or condemnation intended against fellow posters, of course). We also don't know what they'd be reborn as or how much of them would carry across from one life to the next, but that's ultimately inevitable in any case where there's enough of the souls left to consider their prospects for their next turn on the Wheel.

Edited September 27, 2017 by blotter

[Enoch]

I made a world state based on what would be interesting hooks for the future, then backed out to a character who would make those choices.

 

That means: 

• Wael's Choice.  Chekov's gun is loaded for wackiness.
• Abydon restored.  "Tempered" gods are boring. 
• Ondra's crazy ex-monks freed.
• Animancy research allowed to continue.
• The Master Below "freed."
• Aloth leading the Leaden Key, with help from Iselmyr.
• Eder in the Night Market.
• I didn't have a strong preference on Pallegina being a hero or exile, so I went with her decision (resulted in exile). 
• Other companion quests completed, except for GM's, because, seriously, who has the patience necessary to do that more than once?
• Orlan protagonist, because they're the only interesting race.

That lined up nicely for a Priest of Wael.  I probably should've had the cojones to break a vow and anger one of the other gods, but it just didn't feel in keeping with the character to make the promise.  Still, I'm expecting that Ondra's resentment stemming from the events of the White March will make things interesting enough for a seagoing adventure in the Deadfire...

[Messier-31]

• Animancy research allowed to continue.
• Aloth leading the Leaden Key, with help from Iselmyr.

 

That's quite a waelish approach, I guess

 

 

I probably should've had the cojones to break a vow and anger one of the other gods, but it just didn't feel in keeping with the character to make the promise. 

 

In the survey the "no angered gods" choice are in predominance, so far. This means that most of the players just need the happy ending. In my case my character was all about Ondra for RP reasons, so I made a promise to Rymrgand, because they are allies. But after the White March experiences with her and after the great reveal - courtesy of Iovara - had to break the promise and went full Wael.

 

Choices like "Aloth dismantles the LK" or "Crucicble Knights rule good" are also in survey's predominance. This just confirms my observation, people tend to have happy ending. Me? From my character's POV I'd like to spice things up a little:

 

• Wael's choice - surprise me, oh He Who Sees and is Not Seen
• Angered Rymrgand - Ondra had it coming
• Doemenels in the shadows - they had more in common with my character anyway
• Neutral animancy - because I have nothing against animancers, but would put them under supervision
• Master Below set free - good to have an ally like this, no?
• Pallegina decides for herself (Kind Wayfarers ending) - do whatever you want, girl
• Edér in Night Market - wasn't sure, it just happened
• Aloth as new Leaden Key grandmaster - such an important figure as my ally suits me
• Leave Vela alone - after Simoc's death she should be fine with her kin (although I wonder what are the consequences!)
• Eyeless tempered - I want Durgan Battery operating in the future and wasn't sure about Ondra at the time

Edited September 28, 2017 by Messier-31

[MaxQuest]

Doemenels in the shadows - they had more in common with my character anyway

Hah, in every playthrough I am repeating the same thing:

- going for Crucible Knights

- removing Second Skin via console

- and adding The Merciless Hand

[morhilane]

• Other companion quests completed, except for GM's, because, seriously, who has the patience necessary to do that more than once?

No one...?

 

I know I wasn't able on my replay despite liking it in the first playthrough. I also never completed Durance's quest because I can't stand him. In fact, the first time I saw his default ending, I liked it, so I decided to never bother with his "personal quest".

 

In the survey the "no angered gods" choice are in predominance, so far. This means that most of the players just need the happy ending.

Don't tell me you are surprised. Despite the vocal minority asking for evil paths or just choice&consequences few actually take the bad paths. In fact, I know a few people who don't like POE1 because the story isn't full of "ray of sunshines". I suspect "returning the souls to the kids" is also the most popular choice?

 

In my cases, the first time I just went with promising everyone I'll do their things (because dishonest lying character) and it bite me in the ass (literally, Galawain wasn't happy). I was surprised, but I found it awesome (and sad, poor Dyrwoodians).

 

 

 

Now I feel likes I need to make a Wael playthrough...hmm.

[Messier-31]

 

In the survey the "no angered gods" choice are in predominance, so far. This means that most of the players just need the happy ending.

Don't tell me you are surprised. Despite the vocal minority asking for evil paths or just choice&consequences few actually take the bad paths. In fact, I know a few people who don't like POE1 because the story isn't full of "ray of sunshines". I suspect "returning the souls to the kids" is also the most popular choice?

 

 

A bit, yes. This game has lots of options and choices to make. If it was a game made by me I would be discouraged to make more games like that. If only a handful of people enjoy other paths, maybe I'm doing something wrong, so what is the point.

[FlintlockJazz]

I wouldn't say supporting the Crucible Knights as wanting a happy ending, more that the other options were not portrayed in a way that many would want to support them.  The first time you meet the Dozens they are portrayed as a bunch of, well, prats really, not having a clue and puffing themselves up like pea****s.  Meanwhile, the Doemenels I have to admit during my first playthrough I did not even realise they were an option, and in most of my other playthroughs the first time my character meets them is via the Vailian Trading House questline which usually results in me punching them in the face as principle, then punching them even more when more of them show up, so not a good first impression again. 

 

As to not angering gods, I adopt a "Don't piss off the immortal being with immense cosmic powers even if they were created by some stupid civilisation" clause.  Tend to find it's a good survival policy.

Edited September 28, 2017 by FlintlockJazz

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

In the survey the "no angered gods" choice are in predominance, so far. This means that most of the players just need the happy ending.

Don't tell me you are surprised. Despite the vocal minority asking for evil paths or just choice&consequences few actually take the bad paths. In fact, I know a few people who don't like POE1 because the story isn't full of "ray of sunshines". I suspect "returning the souls to the kids" is also the most popular choice?

 

 

A bit, yes. This game has lots of options and choices to make. If it was a game made by me I would be discouraged to make more games like that. If only a handful of people enjoy other paths, maybe I'm doing something wrong, so what is the point.

 

I find the choices need to be meaningful and have reasons to follow them.  One criticism of most roleplay games I hear by people is that the choices usually are between "holy paladin light save the babies" and "evil moustache twirling puppy kicker".  Even when I am playing an evil character I will often not take the evil choices because they are, well, stupid and evil for evil's sake.  If they want people to actually try different options they should be actual choices (and not forced moral choices, the Virmire choice always cheesed me off as to how contrived it was).  Witcher 3 I think did do some good choices: my first playthrough I went with killing the spirit in the tree (allowing the baron and wife to live) and siding with Vernon against Dijstra but now I do the complete opposite and feel they are the better choices (because the baron was a **** really, Dijstra was right and I never liked Vernon anyway, I only sided him with to save Thaler and Ves, Iorveth for life!).

[morhilane]

 

 

In the survey the "no angered gods" choice are in predominance, so far. This means that most of the players just need the happy ending.

Don't tell me you are surprised. Despite the vocal minority asking for evil paths or just choice&consequences few actually take the bad paths. In fact, I know a few people who don't like POE1 because the story isn't full of "ray of sunshines". I suspect "returning the souls to the kids" is also the most popular choice?

 

 

A bit, yes. This game has lots of options and choices to make. If it was a game made by me I would be discouraged to make more games like that. If only a handful of people enjoy other paths, maybe I'm doing something wrong, so what is the point.

 

People enjoy having the possibility of picking choices, they just don't like the consequences when it's not 100% in their favors (or to their liking). I know plenty of people who do save scumming because of it. "Good" tend to be favored over "Evil" because of it.

 

I personally try to role-play my character. I tend to not play "evil" because it usually doesn't feel like you are "evil", you're more like a bully intimidating people for more money. But my first POE1 character was a dishonest liar (and it had consequence late game). My second was a goody-two-shoes Eothas priest though.

 

I preferred the first one, unfortunately I lost that save.

[esyvjrt]

The death of Lady Webb marked a turning point in your search for a cure to your condition. Without her help, the Leaden Key's trail soon ran cold. In time your visions invaded your waking thoughts, as they had for Maerwald, and took over your mind.

You would spend the remainder of your days wandering the streets of Defiance Bay, raving at passersby and fleeing the phantoms in your mind.

[JerekKruger]

I wouldn't say supporting the Crucible Knights as wanting a happy ending, more that the other options were not portrayed in a way that many would want to support them. 

 

Agreed. If you have preknowledge of the endings then I'd say the "happiest" is supporting the Dozens but making them work with the Crucible Knights afterwards, followed by supporting the Crucible Knights but having them abandon their Forge Knight experiments.

 

However the Dozens do come across as an unruly mob and, without out of character knowledge, handing over power to them does not seem sensible.

[Wormerine]

I will stick to my first playthrough even though it is not an ideal one. I regret suppressing Isilmir (I still stand by choice, but I would prefer to have her in Deadfire, and Pallegina’s fate wasn’t what I hoped for (she got kicked out). I would also prefer to let Audra Dragon live in case she reappears. Still, choices I have made and I will stick to them. I will see other outcomes on later playthroughs.

[Nail]

And what about Llengrath?

Stats are so good... but spells also good

(I'm stats sucker)

[Quillon]

Well, this was certainly enlightening at the least.

 

Btw. shouldn't Galawain's choice effect our party to have stronger souls also? Or is the machine's racist and effected only dyrwoodans, then at least Eder, Durance, GM & Hiravias & DoC should have got stronger souls, no?

[Wormerine]

And what about Llengrath?

Stats are so good... but spells also good

(I'm stats sucker)

True. In my first playthrough which I will use for Deadfire she is dead. All is nice and dandy but I do want to keep Concelhaults skull and see what will happen.

[blotter]

Btw. shouldn't Galawain's choice effect our party to have stronger souls also? Or is the machine's racist and effected only dyrwoodans, then at least Eder, Durance, GM & Hiravias & DoC should have got stronger souls, no?

 

For the machine to distinguish between Dyrwoodans and non-Dyrwoodans, it'd probably be necessary for nationality to somehow make peoples' souls appreciably different on the basis of where they were born, and I'm not sure Obsidian really wants to go *there* any time soon.

 

As far as I recall, the souls have to travel through the machinery to achieve the various outcomes (with the possible exception of outright destroying them), so it's quite possible that Sun in Shadow itself was simply outside of the radius of the effect, in that it was the place the essence was sent away from and because it's far enough removed from the Dyrwood itself that you need help from the gods just to avoid dying on the trip over.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Btw. shouldn't Galawain's choice effect our party to have stronger souls also? Or is the machine's racist and effected only dyrwoodans, then at least Eder, Durance, GM & Hiravias & DoC should have got stronger souls, no?

 

For the machine to distinguish between Dyrwoodans and non-Dyrwoodans, it'd probably be necessary for nationality to somehow make peoples' souls appreciably different on the basis of where they were born, and I'm not sure Obsidian really wants to go *there* any time soon.

 

As far as I recall, the souls have to travel through the machinery to achieve the various outcomes (with the possible exception of outright destroying them), so it's quite possible that Sun in Shadow itself was simply outside of the radius of the effect, in that it was the place the essence was sent away from and because it's far enough removed from the Dyrwood itself that you need help from the gods just to avoid dying on the trip over.

 

Plus, isn't it beneath Twin Elms which is in Eir Glanfath and not the Dyrwood?  Unless Dyrwood refers to the geographical location rather than the nation state.