The History of Antifa vs. Nazi: The Light and Dark sides of the Force

[Yokoshima]

Atifa violence was directly responsible for Hitlers and other fascist parties in Europe rose to power as people wanted order in their countries and that was the platform they run on in Germany and Italy for example.

The legend of antifa fighting "against nazies" was forged after WWII to make them look good in retrospective.

Antifa didn't fought fascist because they seen them as evil, they fought them because they were political rivals for rhe same leftist voters. Fascist for national socialism and Antifa for international socialism.

Fascist won battle in Germany and millions of people died from their ideology, antifa won in Russia and millions died from their ideology.

Using the ligh/dark side is false as it implies antifa thugs are "good". In fact they are equivalent of D&D Blood Wars between Lawful Evil Devils (Nazies) and Chaotic Evil Demons (Antifa).

Both are evil and noone should side with either one.

This. A 1000 times this.

[Yokoshima]

The anti fascist movement, was directly responsible for the fascist movement.

 

That's some great doublethink right there.

When one side uses authoritarian and violent means against another, the vast majority of the population who was on neither side will have empathy for the side that was wronged. Especially if they side attacking was successful. Take the modern political climate. Right now "SJW"s and anti-fa are using violence to attack literal fact, peaceful protest, and in many ways white people (esp. white males). You don't have to be a Nazi to find that distasteful. But the extreme left has the majority of social power (Basically modern day McCarthyism) and a great deal of the political power. 

 

As a result some see the far right as their only hope, while most moderates and liberals see the far left as the enemy and major threat but still do not like the fat right. Either way the far right benefits.

 

So yes, one authoritarian side in power can lead to the opposite authoritarian side gaining power. It is known as the pendulum effect. Those who do not observe history and all that.

[HoonDing]

Hard to argue with anything Mikke talks about tbh

 

just look at what's going on in France and Germany

[Malcador]

This is insane. The "neo-nazis" are few and hold almost not political power. But places like CNN shilled for the authoritarian left Ati-fa (who, btw, represent an ideology far worse than the Nazis based on number killed). Many are anarco-commuinists. We didn't fight with them at all, and we have ALWAYS stood against authoritarian ideologies.  Don't paint them for what they aren't. There is a reason they have been classified as a terrorist organization since 2016 internally.

 

Kind of irrelevant to rely on body count to say they are worse than the Nazis. The latter had to be stopped by a conflict that killed millions, and in theory would have killed even more.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Show me where there are a lot of nazis. Show me where they hold meaningful social or political power.

Greece.

Even if you assume 100% of the people at charlottesville were Nazis or white supremacists (they weren't)

I don't care about their pronouns, if they're chanting Blood and Soil it's clear they are nazis.

And you know what? Before Antifa showed up there was no violence.

Take your #windowlivesmatter to someone who cares.

Even most of the people on any of the /pol/s think they are idiots (LARPing aside).

The aut-right is from /pol/ which is pretty much a reddit colony at this point anyway. The only reason it gets disavowed is because they realized they're all fat or skinnyfat robot-tier idiots and going out in public embarrasses daddy Trump.

[HoonDing]

"who, btw, represent an ideology far worse than the Nazis based on number killed"

 

capitalism must be worst

[Rosbjerg]

"who, btw, represent an ideology far worse than the Nazis based on number killed"

 

capitalism must be worst

 

If we're going by cumulative yeah - it's just that it's much more insidious and arguably harder to see, since it isn't a centralized state doing the killing.. And not much different from how human society has always churned the wheel.

 

Also victims of Communism and Fascism are much easier to identify, internal dissidents and minorities tend to stick out.

[Blodhemn]

Another hard left vs hard right sympathizer debate. Joy.

[SonicMage117]

I watched the newest Transformers which stated that a decipticon pocket watch killed Hitler and is kept accordingly in a british museum by hammerfell. Seems legit.

[Zoraptor]

 

Greece? The country that is run by the party that's literally called "The Coalition of the Radical Left"?

 

 

Ukraine. Worshipping that unredacted genocidal fascist Bandera as if he's a hero. And most ironically supported by Poland. Well, not quite most ironic, almost as ironic as Poland whining about 1939 when they blatantly stabbed the Lithuanians in the back and stole their land when they were fighting the soviets, and also helped partition rump Czechoslovakia early in 1939.

 

And, as always, the EIC/ Vic's Raj killed more people in India alone through capitalism than the history of communism- primarily so that they could pimp drugs to the Chinese as well.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Zoraptor

[Blarghagh]

 

There is no debate about wether Hitler ever ordered the Holocaust. Pretending that he didn't does nothing but cater to Neo Nazis. Anyone who spends even a minimum amount of time with politics should be aware of this.

Maybe this guy doesn't Heil Hitler at home. He certainly does make an effort to attract those who do.

Even if he may not call himself a Nazi, he goes long ways to get their votes.

 

Tell me, where am I wrong? Because catering to Nazis doesn't make you a lot different from being one. Not catering to nationalists, conservatives or patriots; catering to Nazis.

Is speech a document, now? Well some things certainly changed since I covered historical sources classification in school.

It did point out there is a record, a.k.a. it was documented, so yes it is 100% a document. What do you think document means? Must be handwritten and signed in triplicate? Hitler was a nazi, not a vogon.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The point isn't that Golden Dawn has power, but that they exist in relatively high numbers compared to their counterparts in other PIGS or the west as a whole. Thus there are going to be more antifa in comparison, similarly to how Azedus noticed their was Antifa in his hometown where there are a lot of neo-nazis.

[213374U]

As for the capitalism, first and foremost it's not a political system, it's a form of economy.

This reasoning works both ways. "Communism" therefore was first and foremost a form of economy, and what killed eleventy billion was the totalitarian dictatorships that oh just happened to have their economy organized along the lines of "communism".

 

Realistically, "the economy" itself is not something abstract and separate from politics. It is a system whose main actors are invariably connected to the levers of power, because said power is rooted in economic control and influence. The degree to which these two (infrastructure-superstructure) are interdependent has apparently been a point of contention since Marx postulated the model, but I don't know of anyone seriously proposing total and perfect compartmentalization.

[redneckdevil]

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

[Malcador]

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

Are they showing up to fight or just protest along side?

[213374U]

 

This reasoning works both ways. "Communism" therefore was first and foremost a form of economy, and what killed eleventy billion was the totalitarian dictatorships that oh just happened to have their economy organized along the lines of "communism".

 

Realistically, "the economy" itself is not something abstract and separate from politics. It is a system whose main actors are invariably connected to the levers of power, because said power is rooted in economic control and influence. The degree to which these two (infrastructure-superstructure) are interdependent has apparently been a point of contention since Marx postulated the model, but I don't know of anyone seriously proposing total and perfect compartmentalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

 

"In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state."

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism

 

"an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market"

 

Back to school man, back to school...

 

 

Le sigh.

 

"Capitalism is an economic system and an ideology based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

 

[...]

 

Economists, political economists and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire or free market capitalism, welfare capitalism and state capitalism. Different forms of capitalism feature varying degrees of free markets, public ownership,[8] obstacles to free competition and state-sanctioned social policies. The degree of competition in markets, the role of intervention and regulation and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism.[9]"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

 

If you're going to go by Wiki to illustrate your (glaring lack of) understanding of concepts, at least be consistent about it, and don't cherrypick definitions.

[BruceVC]

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

I think the premise of the point that Antifa today in the USA is the same as Antifa from the past is not an accurate comparision

 

Historical  Antifa was opposed to fascist movements that wanted to control governments and were a real ideology that ended up ruling some countries

 

But Antifa nowadays is opposed to some right wing views some people in the USA have, its not like Trump is a real fascist or practices real Neo-Nazism 

[redneckdevil]

 

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

Are they showing up to fight or just protest along side?

Tbh.... instigating fights?

These are the "black Bloc" anarchists who covered faces up in black who turned some peaceful BLM and Trump protests violent?

[redneckdevil]

 

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

I think the premise of the point that Antifa today in the USA is the same as Antifa from the past is not an accurate comparision

 

Historical Antifa was opposed to fascist movements that wanted to control governments and were a real ideology that ended up ruling some countries

 

But Antifa nowadays is opposed to some right wing views some people in the USA have, its not like Trump is a real fascist or practices real Neo-Nazism

Maybe since here in Merica since our political system is a bit different wording and definitions, they look like brown shirts to me.

I mean I can understand and appreciate punching a Nazi or a klans man in the face, but I can't agree or like mimicking brown shirts (the enemy) as the way to get to the face to punch if that makes any sense.

Edited September 17, 2017 by redneckdevil

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

Because they figure their opponets are going to show up.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Quick question, so Antifa is against Nazism, why then do we see them at any type of BLM or any thing related to racism here in Merica?

I think the premise of the point that Antifa today in the USA is the same as Antifa from the past is not an accurate comparision

 

Historical Antifa was opposed to fascist movements that wanted to control governments and were a real ideology that ended up ruling some countries

 

But Antifa nowadays is opposed to some right wing views some people in the USA have, its not like Trump is a real fascist or practices real Neo-Nazism

Maybe since here in Merica since our political system is a bit different wording and definitions, they look like brown shirts to me.

I mean I can understand and appreciate punching a Nazi or a klans man in the face, but I can't agree or like mimicking brown shirts (the enemy) as the way to get to the face to punch if that makes any sense.

 

Red can I tell you something interesting about these debates that occur in Western countries and both sides, left and right,  at times seem to do this

 

People ignore or forget nuance or the principle of  " grey areas ", for example at Charlottesville there was violence from both sides....you could see it on any news  coverage. But does this mean the fear of white supremacists isn't real or a concern? Of course it is but it would be inaccurate to label all the people on the right as neo-nazis or that they were the only ones involved in violence 

[Hurlshort]

Poor Sharp_One. Nobody understands him! It is clearly the fault of everyone else. We can't english enough.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

As for Lithuania I don't know what you refer to, you need to be more specific.

 

 

I'm not surprised at all. Countries tend to avoid teaching their less than glorious history, and that which doesn't fit the national narrative.

 

(Polish Lithiuanian War. It's off topic anyway)

[Eumaios]

As a practical matter, antifa is not going to help the Democrats in the next election. Sure, it's probably a badge of honor in this particular forum, but the Democrats will have to take the day with the albatross of antifa on their backs because people have come to associate them with the Democrats, which is probably unfair for the Democrats. Of course, this is the way of things since for so long it's been a winning tactic for the left to associate people like Nazis and white supremacy movements with the Republicans.

 

This isn't about winning an internet argument. I have nothing but contempt for Nazis. I can't imagine a single person who served in the military who has anything but disgust for people who put swastikas on the National Ensign or carries it while quoting Hitler or some other fascist thug as if he's a hero. This isn't a defense of white supremacy. However, antifa isn't about attacking Nazis. Antifa is about attacking free speech and the way this will play out over time in American politics won't help the Democrats. They need to put as much space as they can between these 'light side' crusaders and their party.

 

I don't like to make predictions, but I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, and I've had some small successes predicting these things in the past. I'll say this, if the Democrats embrace antifa with open arms, we're going to have a rare mid-term in which the party in power actually picks up seats.

[smjjames]

I don't like to make predictions, but I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, and I've had some small successes predicting these things in the past. I'll say this, if the Democrats embrace antifa with open arms, we're going to have a rare mid-term in which the party in power actually picks up seats.

 

The Democrats have been trying to do the exact opposite and distance themselves as much as possible from antifa.