213374U Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) No, he just did himself in. Breitbart had whole sections just about him, and Breitbart is probably now the most influential US website. Ah. So who's the Daedalus in this story then? Bannon? Your comment about Breitbart's influence is just another point for Guard Dog's "ban the internet" initiative, I reckon. Edited February 27, 2017 by 213374U - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 I don't see this as an Icarus story. This is a guy undone by his own nature. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Guard Dog Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) I think you and I were having two different conversations. You are pointing at the past and trying to tell me how much better things are now. I'm pointing at now and trying to tell you how much worse they are than they should be. if you don't like the now, then change it. is only bad 'cause we let it be bad. patriot act were voted overwhelming bipartisan. the ordinance preventing your little girl lemonade stand? weren't a demagogue who implemented. is nothing preventing you from getting changed. you are part of heavy handed government, so fix it. and yeah, val's argument sucked. we got far more functional freedom today than 100 or even 50 years ago. has government become too protective and invasive in specific situations? sure it has, and we rail 'gainst such, but use patently wrong and utter ridiculous appeals to the past is not gonna help. just realize it is the saame democracy we spoke o' earlier which makes it possible for government to do stoopid stuff such as patriot acts and little girl lemonade stand prohibitions. such democracy is also available to you if you wanna change. fix the problems. we made the problems. now fix. HA! Good Fun! Changing it is EXACTLY why we discuss politics on boards like this. And I daresay it does have some small effect. 10 years ago as far as I remember I was the ONLY one on this board making Libertarian arguments. With the occasional exception of everyone's favorite lawyer from California, particularly where speech is concerned. Today there are quite a few folks who, if not all the way on board are at least considering the merits of the libertarian philosophy. I'd call that a win. The whole point of a discussion isn't to convince someone you are right, it's to make them at least think about your argument. And it's worked on me too. I've had m opinions changed by things folks on this board have argued to me. Once by Enoch no less and he and I couldn't even agree if rain was wet. Other than talking to people the only other options are voting and I've never failed to do that... at least not in November. I may have sat out some special elections though. And run for office. No way in hell am I doing THAT again. Edited February 27, 2017 by Guard Dog 2 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Drowsy Emperor Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 I don't see this as an Icarus story. This is a guy undone by his own nature. He lived off of saying controversial things. It was never an issue up until it was decided overnight that its time for it to become an issue. И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,И његова сва изгибе војска, Седамдесет и седам иљада;Све је свето и честито билоИ миломе Богу приступачно.
pmp10 Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 I haven't been back here in a while and serious question: how can you guys keep going...? Aren't you even a bit curious where things are heading? Middle-ground in politics has been slowly disappearing for a while now. This thread may be a glimpse into political future of US.
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 I don't see this as an Icarus story. This is a guy undone by his own nature. He lived off of saying controversial things. It was never an issue up until it was decided overnight that its time for it to become an issue. Most of it was only controversial to the left. It's true he also said a lot of sexual things, but that was OK with Breitbart (I think the founder was a bit of a gay rights champion), and conservatives accepted it because they loved how he bashed the left. He just finally went too far to ignore for people on his own side. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Drowsy Emperor Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 I don't see this as an Icarus story. This is a guy undone by his own nature. He lived off of saying controversial things. It was never an issue up until it was decided overnight that its time for it to become an issue. Most of it was only controversial to the left. It's true he also said a lot of sexual things, but that was OK with Breitbart (I think the founder was a bit of a gay rights champion), and conservatives accepted it because they loved how he bashed the left. He just finally went too far to ignore for people on his own side. As I said, that's how its presented. I personally think he just outlived his usefulness. Even without the comments I have a hard time believing they would let him speak at the same gathering Trump would speak, now that he's president. Its completely inappropriate И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,И његова сва изгибе војска, Седамдесет и седам иљада;Све је свето и честито билоИ миломе Богу приступачно.
Agiel Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) Prediction: The contents of the new immigration ban Executive Order to supersede the one judged as unconstitutional by courts have already been leaked to lawyers so that when it is signed, it will immediately get slapped with lawsuits. Edited February 27, 2017 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
Gromnir Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 trump narcissism is so profound, he actually thinks the oscar mix-up last night were 'cause o' hollywood's preoccupation with him. ... *sigh* HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Enoch Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) I don't see this as an Icarus story. This is a guy undone by his own nature. He lived off of saying controversial things. It was never an issue up until it was decided overnight that its time for it to become an issue. Most of it was only controversial to the left. It's true he also said a lot of sexual things, but that was OK with Breitbart (I think the founder was a bit of a gay rights champion), and conservatives accepted it because they loved how he bashed the left. He just finally went too far to ignore for people on his own side. As I said, that's how its presented. I personally think he just outlived his usefulness. Even without the comments I have a hard time believing they would let him speak at the same gathering Trump would speak, now that he's president. Its completely inappropriate Well, since when has "completely inappropriate" stopped this President from doing anything? More generally, I think WoD has the pulse on this one. Keep in mind where the votes and money that support far-right cultural policies in the U.S. come from. It's mostly older religious folks. Homosexuality isn't something that this demographic is all that hip to, but it's mainstream enough that they're willing to accept (and be entertained by) a (figurative) bomb-throwing in-your-face gay provocateur who targets things that they hate more. So long as he was taunting feminists, academics, trans folks, aspects of gay culture, etc., he was entertaining and a promising avenue toward more youth interest in conservative causes. Needless to say, though, implied support of sex with children is a huge no-go with this crowd. Even if that wasn't what he really meant, etc., etc., this particular audience isn't too far removed from the days when the common understanding of "sexual deviants" drew no distinction between folks who were simply gay and folks who were into 7-year-olds. Any suggestion of crossing that particular line is especially damning with a good hunk of their support/audience, even if they'd still love to have an advocate like him out there making headlines. Edited February 28, 2017 by Enoch 2
Guard Dog Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 Just sayin' 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Namutree Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 Just sayin' He was pro-TPP; Trump timeline is best timeline. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Chilloutman Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) to be fair, I don't think any religious school would be much different... Edited February 28, 2017 by Chilloutman I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Malcador Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) Seems like not much point in posting then. Ah, finally Canadian politics has something interesting - even if it is some Reform-type. https://www.facebook.com/KellieLeitchMP/videos/1314609118576466/ Still wonder what on earth Canadian values are, should be a laugh riot whatever they come up with. Edited February 28, 2017 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Hurlshort Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 to be fair, I don't think any religious school would be much different... That's completely typical of any religious school. The science teacher likely does not have the educational background to really effectively teach about evolution. You get that all over the US in Christian schools.
Wrath of Dagon Posted February 28, 2017 Author Posted February 28, 2017 Just sayin' I think I saw that whino panhandling on the street the other day. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
213374U Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 That's completely typical of any religious school. The science teacher likely does not have the educational background to really effectively teach about evolution. You get that all over the US in Christian schools. Is it, though? And what do you mean that science teachers don't have the educational background to effectively teach evolution? Aren't HS science teachers supposed to be, uh, scientists themselves? Regardless, it appears that not all religions are created equal when dealing with the fact that we're descended from tadpoles swimming in filth. http://www.pewforum.org/2009/02/04/religious-differences-on-the-question-of-evolution/ The video reminded me of something I was reading the other day, a thorough "refutation" of evolution from an epistemological standpoint, by a Muslim "scholar" (quotation marks because he's considered a fraud by some Muslims apparently) who was trained in a US university. http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/evolve.htm Funny thing is, it's a reply to a question from an actual Muslim biologist, of all people, trying to come to terms with the fact that evolution is kufr. Richard Dawkins may look like a bit of a man on a mission of late, but I have massive respect for the man and ultimately he's trying to fight against the idiocy that is the idea that "I'm entitled to my opinion". - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Hurlshort Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 That's completely typical of any religious school. The science teacher likely does not have the educational background to really effectively teach about evolution. You get that all over the US in Christian schools. Is it, though? And what do you mean that science teachers don't have the educational background to effectively teach evolution? Aren't HS science teachers supposed to be, uh, scientists themselves? Not at private schools. They are not held to the same standard as public schools when it comes to credentialed teachers. 1
Varana Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 It would be interesting to see such a statistic for other parts of the world, as well. The acceptance of evolution seems much higher in Europe, for instance, though I'm not sure whether that is because of higher acceptance in general, or because evangelical Christianity is only a small minority (or both). That letter about evolution and Islam was an interesting (if laborious ) read, thank you. He effectively argues for creationism for humans, and Intelligent Design for everything else - a distinction that is new to me. Oh, and he cites Denton in his bibliography - that's the point where Muslim and evangelical Christian theologians meet, apparently. Therefore I have sailed the seas and come To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats Χριστός ἀνέστη!
Azdeus Posted February 28, 2017 Posted February 28, 2017 It would be interesting to see such a statistic for other parts of the world, as well. The acceptance of evolution seems much higher in Europe, for instance, though I'm not sure whether that is because of higher acceptance in general, or because evangelical Christianity is only a small minority (or both). That letter about evolution and Islam was an interesting (if laborious ) read, thank you. He effectively argues for creationism for humans, and Intelligent Design for everything else - a distinction that is new to me. Oh, and he cites Denton in his bibliography - that's the point where Muslim and evangelical Christian theologians meet, apparently. Well, the religious schools here in Sweden are quite few, out of ~31000 schools in 2007 roughly 70 were religious schools, but many of them has been criticized by the National Agency for Education for not teaching/having the values that they have put forth. If you're a religious school in Sweden all teachings must still be non-religious, but they are allowed to have some free time spent on religious ideals and whatnot. There are some politicians that has called for a ban of all religious schools, but nothing has come of it so far sadly. Possibly because the EU might interfere. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Malcador Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Trump jerking himself off as expected in this speech so far. The standing ovations are so hilariously frequent Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Volourn Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) All presidents jerk themselves off in speeches. Heck, Obama has bragged about how he would 'no doiubt;' win a 3rd term. then again, he claimed Hillary would win. L0L Of course, Obama would have won because all those racists blacks who refused to vote for Hillary would have voted for Obama. And, no doubt, Trump has a BIGLY ego. Edited March 1, 2017 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Malcador Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Hm, true, though at least it's nuanced self pleasuring with the others. Apparently Trump is the reason behind Intel, Fiat, Lockheed and other corporations investing in the US, the DJIA being up 3k points and others. Also apparently there is lawless chaos all over the US ? 2 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 1, 2017 Author Posted March 1, 2017 It's definitely true about the lawless chaos. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
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