Politics 2017 part II

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Bannon has a lot of influence, as he should, since Trump ran and won on Jeff Sessions', Bannon's and Stephen Miller's platform, Sessions being the primary here, the other two following. And how exactly is Bannon a Leninist? I mean I know you're trolling, but do you have any basis in fact?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html

 

OK, so he jokingly called himself a Leninist because he supposedly uses Leninist tactics to destroy the establishment (without the mass murder though). But the end goal is entirely different from Lenin's.

[Malcador]

Figures one of the shooters was a Megadeth fan

[Hurlshort]

Figures one of the shooters was a Megadeth fan

 

Well he clearly doesn't listen to Dave Mustaine's lyrics.

 

 

Well, where he lost me was stopping legal residents of the US from returning. And I believe that has already been walked back. But this is a lot less of a big deal than is being made of it. I can't wait to hear the SCOTUS pick tomorrow. The Democrats and the Media (the same thing I know) are going to go batsht crazy. It will be entertaining at least.

 

I think it is a pretty big deal for the legal residents who couldn't return home.  And it doesn't seem entirely over yet. Also the fact that a federal judge has already had to block part of an executive order in the first week of his presidency seems like a big red flag. Has that happened before?

[213374U]

 

 

Trump is not nationalizing private property yet. Hitler did that. Trump is not shipping people to death camps yet. Hitler did that. He didn't have the police agencies murder his own supporters yet. Hitler did that. Get the idea?

 

Fixed that for you.

 

 

I kid, I kid.

Hitler actually privatized a lot of stuff. I'll look for the articles when I have time.

 

http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

 

But remember: they were actually doing this just to throw people off their commie scent.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Lenin did a lot of privatization too. Sometimes ideology runs into hard reality. https://infogalactic.com/info/New_Economic_Policy

[Guard Dog]

 

Figures one of the shooters was a Megadeth fan

 

Well he clearly doesn't listen to Dave Mustaine's lyrics.

 

 

Well, where he lost me was stopping legal residents of the US from returning. And I believe that has already been walked back. But this is a lot less of a big deal than is being made of it. I can't wait to hear the SCOTUS pick tomorrow. The Democrats and the Media (the same thing I know) are going to go batsht crazy. It will be entertaining at least.

 

I think it is a pretty big deal for the legal residents who couldn't return home.  And it doesn't seem entirely over yet. Also the fact that a federal judge has already had to block part of an executive order in the first week of his presidency seems like a big red flag. Has that happened before?

 

I wondered the same thing. That has GOT to be a record.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The implementation was definitely a mess. They need to learn to follow proper procedure on these things. The fact that Trump issued his order on Friday and most everything is closed on the weekend was also a big mistake. But they've self corrected within a day, so there's that.

[Gfted1]

Don't Invite Trump For State Visit, Say More Than 1 Million In U.K.

 

Bwahahahaha, oh U.K.

[Volourn]

That must make the anti Brexiters heads explode. Isn't Britain racist like Trump b/c they supported Brexit?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Volourn

[Elerond]

Also... the people whining about this ban didn't complain so loudly when Obama wa sbombing the **** out of some these coutnries. They didn't complain when Obama put them on the 'danger list'. They didn't complain when Obama banned refugees from Syrira for months at a time.

 

It also should be noted that Trump didn't choose these countries. Obama did. the only country named in Trump's executive order was Syria by name. The rest came from Obama. I, at first, believe the fake news that Trump chose these countries and not others because of his businesses but in reality it was because he was following Obama's lead.

 

 

Hmmm...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?client=safari

 

 

 

Trump’s facile claim that his refugee policy is similar to Obama’s in 2011

 

The only news report that we could find that referred to a six-month ban was a 2013 ABC News article that included this line: “As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News — even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets.”

 

The “Kentucky case” refers to two Iraqis in Kentucky who in May 2011 were arrested and faced federal terrorism charges after officials discovered from an informant that Waad Ramadan Alwan, before he had been granted asylum in the United States, had constructed improvised roadside bombs in Iraq. The FBI, after examining fragments from thousands of bomb parts, found Alwan’s fingerprints on a cordless phone that had been wired to detonate an improvised bomb in 2005.

 

The arrests caused an uproar in Congress, and the Obama administration pledged to reexamine the records of 58,000 Iraqis who had been settled in the United States. The administration also imposed new, more extensive background checks on Iraqi refugees. Media reports at the time focused on how the new screening procedures had delayed visa approvals, even as the United States was preparing to end its involvement in the Iraq War.

 

“The enhanced screening procedures have caused a logjam in regular visa admissions from Iraq, even for those who risked their lives to aid American troops and who now fear reprisals as the Obama administration winds down the U.S. military presence,” the Baltimore Sun reported.

 

The Los Angeles Times reported that U.S. officials acknowledged delays but were trying to speed up the process:

 

A U.S. Embassy official in Baghdad, speaking on condition he not be identified, acknowledged “unfortunate delays” in issuing special visas, the result of enhanced security clearance procedures, some instituted after the Kentucky arrests. But he said recent changes would speed the process.

The State Department’s National Visa Center has been ordered to flag special visa applications for expedited action, the official said. And a requirement that Iraqi applicants provide an original signature on certain forms sent to the U.S. has been dropped after Iraqis complained of logistical difficulties.

“We are making changes, ordered at the very highest levels, that will help shave time off the application process,” the official said.

 

At a September 2011 congressional hearing, Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) asked Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano if a hold had been placed on Iraqi visa applications.

 

COLLINS: “So my question is, is there a hold on that population until they can be more stringently vetted to ensure that we’re not letting into this country, people who would do us harm?”

NAPOLITANO: “Yep. Let me, if I might, answer your question two parts. First part, with respect to the 56, 57,000 who were resettled pursuant to the original resettlement program, they have all been revetted against all of the DHS databases, all of the NCTC [National Counter Terrorism Center] databases and the Department of Defense’s biometric databases and so that work has now been done and focused.”

COLLINS: “That’s completed?”

NAPOLITANO: “That is completed. Moving forward, no one will be resettled without going through the same sort of vet. Now I don’t know if that equates to a hold, as you say, but I can say that having done the already resettled population moving forward, they will all be reviewed against those kinds of databases.”

 

The new rules were stringent, the Economist reported, and resulted in some turmoil.

 

“Immigration authorities soon began rechecking all Iraqi refugees in America, reportedly comparing fingerprints and other records with military and intelligence documents in dusty archives. About 1,000 soon-to-be immigrants in Iraq were told that they would not be allowed to board flights already booked. Some were removed from planes. Thousands more Iraqi applicants had to restart the immigration process, because their security clearances expired when the program stalled. Men must now pass five separate checks, women four, and children three.”

 

State Department records show there was a significant drop in refugee arrivals from Iraq in 2011. There were 18,251 in 2010, 6,339 in 2011 and 16,369 in 2012. But it’s unclear that equates to an actual six-month pause in visa processing, rather than a dramatic slowdown in approvals as new rules were put in place. One news report said “pace of visa approvals having slowed to a crawl,” indicating some were still being approved.

 

Update: Former Obama administration official Jon Finer denied that any ban in Iraqi refugee admissions was put in place under Obama. “While the flow of Iraqi refugees slowed significantly during the Obama administration’s review, refugees continued to be admitted to the United States during that time, and there was not a single month in which no Iraqis arrived here,” he wrote in Foreign Policy. “In other words, while there were delays in processing, there was no outright ban.”

Another former official, Eric P. Schwartz, the assistant secretary of state for population, refugees and migration at the time, also told The Fact Checker that Trump’s statement is false:

 

“President Obama never imposed a six-month ban on Iraqi processing. For several months in 2011, there was a lower level of Iraqi resettlement, as the government implemented certain security enhancements. Indeed, as we identified new and valuable opportunities to enhance screening, we did so. Nobody should object to a continual effort to identify legitimate enhancements, but it is disreputable to use that as a pretext to effectively shut down a program that is overwhelmingly safe and has enabled the United States to exercise world leadership. In any event, there was never a point during that period in which Iraqi resettlement was stopped, or banned.”

 

The Pinocchio Test

So what’s the difference with Trump’s action?

 

First, Obama responded to an actual threat — the discovery that two Iraqi refugees had been implicated in bombmaking in Iraq that had targeted U.S. troops. (Iraq, after all, was a war zone.) Under congressional pressure, officials decided to reexamine all previous refugees and impose new screening procedures, which led to a slowdown in processing new applications. Trump, by contrast, issued his executive order without any known triggering threat. (His staff has pointed to attacks unrelated to the countries named in his order.)

 

Second, Obama did not announce a ban on visa applications. In fact, as seen in Napolitano’s answer to Collins, administration officials danced around that question. There was certainly a lot of news reporting that visa applications had slowed to a trickle. But the Obama administration never said it had a policy to halt all applications. Indeed, it is now clear that no ban was put in place. Even so, the delays did not go unnoticed, so there was a lot of critical news reporting at the time about the angst of Iraqis waiting for approval.

 

Third, Obama’s policy did not prevent all citizens of that country, including green-card holders, from traveling to the United States. Trump’s policy is much more sweeping, though officials have appeared to pull back from barring permanent U.S. residents.

 

We have sought comment from the White House and from Obama administration officials and so may update this if more information becomes available. But so far this is worthy of at least Two Pinocchios.

 

Update: In light of the response from Obama administration officials that there never was a point when Iraqi resettlement was stopped or banned, we are updating this ruling to Three Pinocchios. Iraqi refugee processing was slowed, in response to a specific threat, but it was not halted. The Trump White House, meanwhile, has failed to provide any evidence for its statement.

 

Three Pinocchios

 

 

[Gfted1]

I cant wait until tomorrows Supreme Court nomination announcement. I predict epic levels of cloth rending and teeth gnashing.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Fact checker, lol : http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/01/nyt_and_wapo_reporters_confess_incompetence_on_twitter.html

[Volourn]

Elerond spam is silly and comes from a fake news website. Mine comes from a 'journalist' that works a TYT a group that loathes Trump so why would they lie?

 

Bototm line is Obama has done similar things and hardly anyone blinked an eye but Trump does it and omg obvi Hitler.  But... shhh.. let's ignore the fact it was Trump who ordered  the mass murder of civilians of various Mulsim countries. No. That was Obama. Or banning of Syrian refugees for a while. (I never once made mention of Iraq so how does your 'source' disprove that?)

[algroth]

Point me at what in that article is fake.

Edited January 30, 2017 by algroth

[Volourn]

Read my post. I never called the ARTICLE fake. I said that it came from a  fake news website.

[Elerond]

Elerond spam is silly and comes from a fake news website. Mine comes from a 'journalist' that works a TYT a group that loathes Trump so why would they lie?

 

Bototm line is Obama has done similar things and hardly anyone blinked an eye but Trump does it and omg obvi Hitler.  But... shhh.. let's ignore the fact it was Trump who ordered  the mass murder of civilians of various Mulsim countries. No. That was Obama. Or banning of Syrian refugees for a while. (I never once made mention of Iraq so how does your 'source' disprove that?)

 

I can't find any actual references of direct bans by Obama, only that he made getting in USA much much more harder for people from certain countries, by adding visa requirements and security checks etc.. 

 

TYT usually don't get their facts right even when they directly quote thing they are saying. Which is why I can't bear to watch, listen or read their pieces.

[algroth]

Read my post. I never called the ARTICLE fake. I said that it came from a  fake news website.

Yeah, and it holds no ground as an accusation if the article in question isn't fake.

[Gfted1]

I cant wait until tomorrows Supreme Court nomination announcement. I predict epic levels of cloth rending and teeth gnashing.

 

Whats that you say Gfted1? Why bother waiting for a nomination before deciding your course of action?

 

Senate Dems will filibuster Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.

 

[Volourn]

"Yeah, and it holds no ground as an accusation if the article in question isn't fake."

 

I only have your word and the site's word that it isn't fake news.  And, youa re relying on their word. Their word can't be trusted so I don't trust the article. It might be real. It might not.  TYT are a bunch of silly gooses but for me they are more trustworthy than that fake news site. So, give me a source superior to a TYT wannabe. And, again, the article talks about Iraq. I never mentioned Iraq. I said Syria. Know your ME countries!

[BruceVC]

The implementation was definitely a mess. They need to learn to follow proper procedure on these things. The fact that Trump issued his order on Friday and most everything is closed on the weekend was also a big mistake. But they've self corrected within a day, so there's that.

Implementing the order  on Friday can also be seen as strategic, this allows certain events to occur with less scrutiny 

 

I am sure the architects and real strategists behind this were well aware this would be challenged legally and socially  by  numerous groups but its very important to Trump to deliver on certain campaign promises. But this also creates its own degrees of issues so the best way to do this would be to do it  on a day with the less amount of initial scrutiny, hence the Friday choice because even if he waited till Monday the same objections would be raised

 

So under the circumstances I would argue the implementation is going as expected 

[Elerond]

 

I cant wait until tomorrows Supreme Court nomination announcement. I predict epic levels of cloth rending and teeth gnashing.

 

Whats that you say Gfted1? Why bother waiting for a nomination before deciding your course of action?

 

Senate Dems will filibuster Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.

 

 

 

So they are continuing what they started last year. 

 

Question is will they even nominate new justices when last one of current ones dies 

[Meshugger]

 

I cant wait until tomorrows Supreme Court nomination announcement. I predict epic levels of cloth rending and teeth gnashing.

 

Whats that you say Gfted1? Why bother waiting for a nomination before deciding your course of action?

 

Senate Dems will filibuster Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.

 

 

 

I wonder if he will put up Ted Cruz for chits & giggles.

[Elerond]

"Yeah, and it holds no ground as an accusation if the article in question isn't fake."

 

I only have your word and the site's word that it isn't fake news.  And, youa re relying on their word. Their word can't be trusted so I don't trust the article. It might be real. It might not.  TYT are a bunch of silly gooses but for me they are more trustworthy than that fake news site. So, give me a source superior to a TYT wannabe. And, again, the article talks about Iraq. I never mentioned Iraq. I said Syria. Know your ME countries!

 

When did Obama did such ban for Syrians?

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

The implementation was definitely a mess. They need to learn to follow proper procedure on these things. The fact that Trump issued his order on Friday and most everything is closed on the weekend was also a big mistake. But they've self corrected within a day, so there's that.

Implementing the order  on Friday can also be seen as strategic, this allows certain events to occur with less scrutiny

 

If you think it got less scrutiny, you're obviously haven't seen what's going on here. That doesn't prove it wasn't their intent, but seems unlikely.

 

https://twitter.com/NathanWurtzel/status/825922396280520704

[algroth]

"Yeah, and it holds no ground as an accusation if the article in question isn't fake."

 

I only have your word and the site's word that it isn't fake news.  And, youa re relying on their word. Their word can't be trusted so I don't trust the article. It might be real. It might not.  TYT are a bunch of silly gooses but for me they are more trustworthy than that fake news site. So, give me a source superior to a TYT wannabe. And, again, the article talks about Iraq. I never mentioned Iraq. I said Syria. Know your ME countries!

Dunno, I'd say a 47-Pulitzer-winner newspaper is a pretty damn trustworthy source of information. Moreover, I don't see what in that article you are accusing of being untrustworthy or being made up, just saying the Washington Post is a "fake news site" won't make the article itself any less valid. Bring me a reliable source that contradicts what is being presented in this article and I'll concede it's a misinforming piece.

Edited January 30, 2017 by algroth