The US Election 2016, Part V

[213374U]

Funny, there's no martial law in Quebec, Scotland or Catalonia.

I don't know about Quebec or Scotland, but last time they tried going that route in Catalonia, they failed miserably: martial law was declared across the country, autonomy was suspended, political leaders were jailed, and two years later a military uprising threw the country into civil war. Boggles the mind that they are trying to pull the exact same **** again, step by step. You can be excused for not knowing our history, but the same doesn't apply to present-day Catalan politicians.

 

So yeah, you may want to review your perspective on how secession works in reality.

[Gromnir]

Oklahoma is #3 on that list and Oklahoma's a god damned hellhole wtf?

fundamental misunderstanding. hobbes' state of nature is undiluted freedom and liberty.

 

"for the laws of nature (as justice, equity, modesty, mercy, and, in sum, doing to others as we woud be done to) of themselves, without the terror of some power, to cause them to be observed, are contrary to our natural passions, that carry us to partiality, pride, revenge and the like."

 

we purposeful sacrifice freedoms and liberty to acquire comfort and safety.  

 

even so, there is particular personal freedoms which should never be offered up on the altar o' necessity. is fundamental liberty values we cannot allow a democracy to offer in exchange for comfort. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

#44! What is this tyranny I live in?

 

Thanks, Obama.

Since Obsidian is based in California, we might see the Tyranny game in a new light....

[Gfted1]

All hail Kyros!

[Guard Dog]

 

here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

Not exactly my field, social sciences, but it looks like, as a rule of thumb, the more densely populated an area is, the more regulations are in place (regardless whether such regulations are justified or not).

 

Government is like drywall Spackle. You apply more where more is needed but if you apply too much anywhere you ruin the whole job!

[Guard Dog]

#44! What is this tyranny I live in?

 

Thanks, Obama.

Don't blame him! He was one state senator out of forty and he's 12 years gone at any rate. You can't keep sending the same cast of characters to Springfield and expect a different result!

Edited August 18, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

 

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

*shrug*

 

am thinking that the study ignores that not all freedoms is equal.  personal freedoms should be given more weight, no? looks like many o' the southern states have issues with personal freedoms.  additional, poor states is understandably gonna have less regulatory laws as they simple cannot enforce even good laws. etc.

 

regardless, its the price o' democracy. act surprised or angry that State and local Government is taking away 'freedoms' is kinda silly, no?  is the democratic process at work. enough folks agree that smoking in restaurants is bad and that "there should be a law preventing it," hopeful results in such a law being passed.  sure, is an infringement o' liberty rights, but virtual all laws is.  prevent small business owners from being unfair to employees or operating without safeguards for the public is an infringement o' liberty and freedom.  prevent folks from bringing invasive species o' plants and animals into a state is terrible burden on personal liberty *snort*, but the democratic process often arrives at the reasonable conclusion that west nile virus and dutch elm disease and japanese beetle infestations is stuff folks wanna avoid.

 

'course, the tyranny of the majority is always a threat.  all you need is +50% to take away freedoms o' the minority.  is democracy, but it is often stoopid, shortsighted and even cruel. the reason why the Bill of Rights and protections o' fundamental rights is so important is  they is a check on the inevitable excesses o' the People.

 

interesting but misleading link.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

It was just discussion fodder Grom. Tongue was firmly in cheek!

[Gfted1]

Don't blame him! He was one state senator out of forty and he's 12 years gone at any rate. You can't keep sending the same cast of characters to Springfield and expect a different result!

Four of our last seven governors went to prison. Its the only life we know!

[Gromnir]

 

 

I thought this was interesting. Reason Magazine ranked all 50 States by their overall freedom ranking. The results are based on tax burden, regulatory and government intrusion into private property, personal business (like needing a business license for your kid to sell lemonade in the front yard) etc.

 

I would like to send my deepest condolences to Gromnir, Hurlshot, Manifested, Di, and all my other brothers & sisters languishing under the heavy chains of totalitarian cruelty in California. You finished 49th again. But... take heart in this... New York is even worse. They were dead last again! And you have better weather.

 

My own home state was 6th, proving again we are the freest state in the land of the green (wait I think that's the other way around.... anyway) New Hampshire moved from 2nd to 1st over all. Maybe that "Free State" project is starting to take root. I with they'd picked somewhere warmer.

 

Anyway... here is the list: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/how-free-is-your-state-all-50-states-ran

*shrug*

 

am thinking that the study ignores that not all freedoms is equal.  personal freedoms should be given more weight, no? looks like many o' the southern states have issues with personal freedoms.  additional, poor states is understandably gonna have less regulatory laws as they simple cannot enforce even good laws. etc.

 

regardless, its the price o' democracy. act surprised or angry that State and local Government is taking away 'freedoms' is kinda silly, no?  is the democratic process at work. enough folks agree that smoking in restaurants is bad and that "there should be a law preventing it," hopeful results in such a law being passed.  sure, is an infringement o' liberty rights, but virtual all laws is.  prevent small business owners from being unfair to employees or operating without safeguards for the public is an infringement o' liberty and freedom.  prevent folks from bringing invasive species o' plants and animals into a state is terrible burden on personal liberty *snort*, but the democratic process often arrives at the reasonable conclusion that west nile virus and dutch elm disease and japanese beetle infestations is stuff folks wanna avoid.

 

'course, the tyranny of the majority is always a threat.  all you need is +50% to take away freedoms o' the minority.  is democracy, but it is often stoopid, shortsighted and even cruel. the reason why the Bill of Rights and protections o' fundamental rights is so important is  they is a check on the inevitable excesses o' the People.

 

interesting but misleading link.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

It was just discussion fodder Grom. Tongue was firmly in cheek!

 

kinda tongue-in-cheek, no? am recalling you recent railing 'gainst new jersey and their efforts to limit impaired driving.  

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88392-the-us-election-2016-part-iv/?p=1834051

 

HA! Good Fun!

[redneckdevil]

Isn't the water shortage in Cali have something to do with an endangered species?

[Gromnir]

Isn't the water shortage in Cali have something to do with an endangered species?

yes.  the extreme endangered sky whales that cause rainfall has been disappearing at an alarming rate over the past century.  ever since folks started going to school and learning 'bout convection in elementary science classes, sky whale sightings has decreased to the point where they now face almost inevitable extinction.

 

...

 

'course, a half decade o' record low rainfalls and almost non-existent snow-pack in the sierra nevadas might also be at the root o' the problem.

 

*eye roll*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

 It's a bit of a stretch to say drinking a non-alcoholic beverage that does not require the driver to take their eyes off the road, that we have been doing since Mr. Ford began mass producing vehicles, is a distraction worthy of criminal sanction! That is a little too much spackle.

 

You also didn't hear me put up a fuss when 33 of 50 States made texting and driving a ticketing offense. 

[Gromnir]

 It's a bit of a stretch to say drinking a non-alcoholic beverage that does not require the driver to take their eyes off the road, that we have been doing since Mr. Ford began mass producing vehicles, is a distraction worthy of criminal sanction! That is a little too much spackle.

 

You also didn't hear me put up a fuss when 33 of 50 States made texting and driving a ticketing offense. 

oh, well, 'cause we has been doing something for centuries is always a great excuse for continuing bad behavior.  you crazy southerners.  eating and drinking while driving is kinda stoopid, even though we all do it.  if a majority o' folks in new jersey agree through the Democratic Process that eating or drinking while driving is too dangerous, and there is surely nothing in the Constitution that prevents such a law, then claims that such makes you question whether we live in a free country is... amusing.  

 

btw, the People is the folks applying the spackle. so why does gd hate democracy?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

Isn't the water shortage in Cali have something to do with an endangered species?

 

[HoonDing]

[Gromnir]

 

Isn't the water shortage in Cali have something to do with an endangered species?

 

 

there are a handful o' potential water conservation projects being delayed or altered by the presence o' endangered species.  is kinda amusing when a needed dam cannot be built 'cause o' an insect or a mulberry bush. even so, the drought/shortage is only related to endangered species in the most tangential way.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

 

You have no idea how this works at all.

 

 

 

 

Really. Why don't you enlighten me how the supreme court gets to set asside the constitution. What could really happen is that the state of whatever passes a law requiring more stringent background checks and psychological tests and so on, there is a lawsuit and it ends up in the supreme court. 

 

 

The supreme court gets to enterpret the constitution and you will still have your 2nd ammendment, as well as some sensible gun laws, hypotheticallly speaking.

 

The reason for that is that whatever the SC says the law is, that's what it is. There's no accountability to anyone, and no appeal. If the SC says a circle is square, then legally it's square. In the 30's the Court ruled that a farmer who didn't engage in interstate commerce was still covered by the Interstate Commerce Clause, because failure to participate is still a form of engagement. As far as the Second Amendment, all the liberals on the court already said it's a communal right, not an individual right, which means it doesn't actually protect anything.

 

 

 

Isn't the water shortage in Cali have something to do with an endangered species?

yes.  the extreme endangered sky whales that cause rainfall has been disappearing at an alarming rate over the past century.  ever since folks started going to school and learning 'bout convection in elementary science classes, sky whale sightings has decreased to the point where they now face almost inevitable extinction.

 

...

 

'course, a half decade o' record low rainfalls and almost non-existent snow-pack in the sierra nevadas might also be at the root o' the problem.

 

*eye roll*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Also failure to do any new water projects while the population doubled. They're also dumping fresh water into the ocean because of the salmon, I think that's what redneckdevil meant.

[Guard Dog]

, then claims that such makes you question whether we live in a free country is... amusing.  

 

 

I believe you have also read me saying that hyperbole and internet forums go together like peanut butter & jelly. It makes for lively discussion. But I do figure you know where I'll come down on most "public interest vs individual liberty" issues.

 

Besides, democracy isn't the spackle, it's the sand paper: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/us/colorado-lawmaker-concedes-defeat-in-recall-over-gun-law.html?_r=0

Edited August 18, 2016 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

 

, then claims that such makes you question whether we live in a free country is... amusing.  

 

 

I

 

E

[Gromnir]

salmon fishing in CA is a $1.5 billion per year industry.  conservation efforts to protect salmon is not specific an endangered species issue (with a couple extreme rare examples,) but rather a commercial concern.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

 

, then claims that such makes you question whether we live in a free country is... amusing.  

 

 

I believe you have also read me saying that hyperbole and internet forums go together like peanut butter & jelly. It makes for lively discussion. But I do figure you know where I'll come down on most "public interest vs individual liberty" issues.

 

Besides, democracy isn't the spackle, it's the sand paper: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/us/colorado-lawmaker-concedes-defeat-in-recall-over-gun-law.html?_r=0

 

spackle were your metaphor for government excess. the People is the government.  

 

*shrug*

 

we do indeed know where you is coming from on "public interest v. liberty," which is exact why we posted the following:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88595-the-us-election-2016-part-v/?p=1836498

 

claim you is just kidding is only partial true, no?  nothing wrong with using funies to get a point across, but subtlety may not exact be your strong suit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

Here's just one example of the extremely widespread SNAP fraud:  http://nypost.com/2013/07/28/nyc-welfare-food-is-shipped-in-barrels-to-the-dominican-republic-then-sold-on-the-black-market/

 

States don't care about the fraud because all the funding comes from the feds, the fraud actually helps the state economy.

[Hurlshort]

Also failure to do any new water projects while the population doubled. They're also dumping fresh water into the ocean because of the salmon, I think that's what redneckdevil meant.

 

 

Well our fiscally conservative governor is trying to push through some better water projects, but it ain't easy to get people on board.

 

Also I love Salmon.  

Edited August 18, 2016 by Hurlshot

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Also failure to do any new water projects while the population doubled. They're also dumping fresh water into the ocean because of the salmon, I think that's what redneckdevil meant.

 

 

And which political group do you think is standing in the way of the new water projects?  

 

Also I love Salmon.  

 

I don't know, which one? Can't be the Republicans, they've been entirely castrated in CA.

[Volourn]

" there is surely nothing in the Constitution that prevents such a law, then claims that such makes you question whether we live in a free country is... amusing.  "

 

We get it. Youa re pro Nazi. Not surprising that you are  lawyer. Grom is just another person who doesn't know what true freedom is.