Baton Rouge Police Shooting

[licketysplit]

Idiots. Ambushing the cops will totally help matters. 

[Zoraptor]

 

 

I think that one of the things that has been stated as being a possible solution in the long run (and to address several issues about oversight) would be to nationalize the police forces.

 

That's seems unlikely to help. You'd presumably still have the manipulatable local control just with additional state/ federal layers on top and you'd still have a culture that protects 'bad' cops at the ground level. A national and genuinely independent police complaints investigation authority seems like a far better idea, along with mandated body cams and the like. The first tackles the problem that you often have other cops andor prosecutors who have to work with them regularly investigating their colleagues or those they want to be innocent/ not prosecute while the second provides a proper and at least theoretically impartial record of what actually happened.

[Gorgon]

 

It's not out for the Iphone. 

[Gorgon]

Idiots. Ambushing the cops will totally help matters. 

You do kinda wonder at the logic. Do they think this will mean less black youths getting killed by police or more.

[HoonDing]

"I agree. We will never go along with that s--t in the US."

 

Ironic, considering what your country needs is another FBI 30s style War on Crime.

[Calax]

 

Idiots. Ambushing the cops will totally help matters. 

You do kinda wonder at the logic. Do they think this will mean less black youths getting killed by police or more.

 

Psycologically, it's probably that they think that this is the only way they feel they will be able to fight back. Their sense is that they can get pulled over, ticketed/arrested for "wrong place wrong time" and when they try to go to court, it's weighted to favor the police in terms of evidence (and they could lose their jobs just taking time off to go to court to fight it)

[213374U]

As for this issue in particular, what I was trying to say that nothing of substance has changed. The police of today is probably much the same as the police 20-30 years ago, and criminality, poverty etc. has long been a problem with the black population.

 

But for months now a narrative about particular police brutality towards black people is being repeated by the media. In a country of 350 million people, there are countless murders and crimes committed every day. Yet a particular selection is constantly in the news and is helping feed the "civil war" atmosphere. I don't believe any of these latest events would have happened without the "them vs us, police vs blacks" cauldron the media keep adding fuel to.

 

 

So, for months there has been a (social) media focus on police violence against blacks specifically, in a country of 350 million people, where cops killing blacks -justifiably or not- is a fraction of the total of violent deaths. This, to you, is "a narrative".

 

But then, you have, for years, a media focus on Islam-motivated -inspired -related violence in an area populated by more than 500 million, where the actual number of people killed for this reason is far less than the cops/blacks problem, by about an order of magnitude. This, to you, is "a problem with Islam", a sign of "cultural incompatibility", and so on. Authoritarian ****face Manuel Valls claiming that the Nice attacker had Islamist ties "one way or another" despite evidence to the contrary is not a narrative at all, right?

 

And yeah, I guess the widely observed correlation between poverty and violence is just a coincidence, and mostly just a narrative pushed by leftards. Ideological killings is where it's at.

 

Time for my time out...

Edited July 17, 2016 by 213374U

[obyknven]

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

As for this issue in particular, what I was trying to say that nothing of substance has changed. The police of today is probably much the same as the police 20-30 years ago, and criminality, poverty etc. has long been a problem with the black population.

 

But for months now a narrative about particular police brutality towards black people is being repeated by the media. In a country of 350 million people, there are countless murders and crimes committed every day. Yet a particular selection is constantly in the news and is helping feed the "civil war" atmosphere. I don't believe any of these latest events would have happened without the "them vs us, police vs blacks" cauldron the media keep adding fuel to.

 

 

So, for months there has been a (social) media focus on police violence against blacks specifically, in a country of 350 million people, where cops killing blacks -justifiably or not- is a fraction of the total of violent deaths. This, to you, is "a narrative".

 

But then, you have, for years, a media focus on Islam-motivated -inspired -related violence in an area populated by more than 500 million, where the actual number of people killed for this reason is far less than the cops/blacks problem, by about an order of magnitude. This, to you, is "a problem with Islam", a sign of "cultural incompatibility", and so on. Authoritarian ****face Manuel Valls claiming that the Nice attacker had Islamist ties "one way or another" despite evidence to the contrary is not a narrative at all, right?

 

And yeah, I guess the widely observed correlation between poverty and violence is just a coincidence, and mostly just a narrative pushed by leftards. Ideological killings is where it's at.

 

Time for my time out...

 

 

Just because its a narrative doesn't mean there isn't truth in it. I was merely pointing out that the escalation in violence is due to the media, not the circumstances changing.

 

The problem with Islam is not just the violence. Its also a parallel culture where religion is the totality of the individual's existence and it includes a political and social order, judicial system etc. All of these are, when adhered to, incompatible with what may loosely be called  "european values and norms". At worst openly antagonistic towards them. Some muslims may not care and just integrate but a lot don't and the UK is an example of what happens when you nurture this exclusionary tendency. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html

 

I have nothing against all of these things in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. If I was there I'd respect them as much as I respect my own laws. I'm not even against beheading or stoning as punishment for adultery and other assorted Islamic laws... in Islamic countries.

 

But to claim that everything is fine, that all of "our" problems (current and forthcoming) is due to some unhappy poor minorities, is****ing stupid and narrow minded. 

 

Maybe its you who is presumptuous in thinking that they're so culturally vacuous that a thousand year old religion is eventually going to transition into the european iphone generation? Just because Europeans dumped Christianity by the roadside, Muslims must throw Mohammad out as well?

And that they're all going to give a **** about your point of view and all these fine humanitarian concerns just because you like to play Voltaire, the same way I give a **** and engage in this discussion? 

You're in for a rude awakening pal.

Please go into Molenbeek and explain to them how their religion is nothing but opium for the masses, their prophet a war criminal and their God an excuse for their Imams to get rich and keep their flock dumb and obedient. Tell them everything the left usually says about Christianity, hell give them the entire marxist manifesto.

I'll be outside waiting with a body bag.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Oerwinde]

 

But for months now a narrative about particular police brutality towards black people is being repeated by the media. In a country of 350 million people, there are countless murders and crimes committed every day. Yet a particular selection is constantly in the news and is helping feed the "civil war" atmosphere. I don't believe any of these latest events would have happened without the "them vs us, police vs blacks" cauldron the media keep adding fuel to.

Playing devils advocate.

 

I think that the BLM movement would say that their entire goal was to push these particular incidents into the picture because of how badly they've been getting marginalized by the system, and that despite our attempts otherwise, policing hasn't changed much in terms of culture since the Rodney King beating in the nineties.

 

I think that one of the things that has been stated as being a possible solution in the long run (and to address several issues about oversight) would be to nationalize the police forces. Because as it stands right now, each individual city having it's own police force that has it's own budget and reports to itself means that it's incredibly easy for abuses to be swept under the rug. (Did hear a BLM movement member wonder why over 50% of LA's city budget runs right into the LAPD)

 

 

Well, almost 60% of the LA population is black or latino, so they would need a big police force /racism

[BruceVC]

I see some  residents of Baton Rouge are saying the violence against the Police is being perpetuated by people who have there own "BLM agenda "  and come from outside the  state 

 

 

I can believe this as this aligns to the whole " the movement of BLM does not stand for violence against Police " 

 

And yes of course some members of BLM  do believe in violence but that doesn't represent what the whole  movement actually stands for

[Meshugger]

Have they caught the guy yet?

[redneckdevil]

Problemly have but busy scrubbing his background of any BLM or Muslim material to not be shown to the public.

[213374U]

Just because its a narrative doesn't mean there isn't truth in it. I was merely pointing out that the escalation in violence is due to the media, not the circumstances changing. [...]

 

Some muslims may not care and just integrate but a lot don't and the UK is an example of what happens when you nurture this exclusionary tendency.

 

This is an argumentum ex culo. You are confusing facts with ideology. In fact, part of the problem is that comprehensive, reliable data is not available. However, since the "War on Drugs" began in earnest in the 80's, convictions (which disproportionately target blacks) have skyrocketed. Is the problem -rather than merely the perception of the problem- getting worse lately? Hard to say. It's clearly not getting better, though.

 

As for Muslims and Islamic law, it's actually the other way around. Most Muslims don't care and just do whatever the law of the land says. This is evidenced by the fact that the overwhelming majority of Muslims living in Europe and the US, do not, in fact, go around murdering infidels. Deal with it.

 

Muslim arbitration courts in the UK are a disgrace, I'll give you that. However they are still subject to greater UK law, and any ruling found non-compliant would be thrown out in an actual court of law.

 

 

 

Maybe its you who is presumptuous in thinking that they're so culturally vacuous that a thousand year old religion is eventually going to transition into the european iphone generation? Just because Europeans dumped Christianity by the roadside, Muslims must throw Mohammad out as well?

And that they're all going to give a **** about your point of view and all these fine humanitarian concerns just because you like to play Voltaire, the same way I give a **** and engage in this discussion? 

You're in for a rude awakening pal.

Please go into Molenbeek and explain to them how their religion is nothing but opium for the masses, their prophet a war criminal and their God an excuse for their Imams to get rich and keep their flock dumb and obedient. Tell them everything the left usually says about Christianity, hell give them the entire marxist manifesto.

I'll be outside waiting with a body bag.

So your proof that economic conditions have nothing to do with violence is... that one of the most economically depressed municipalities with a large Muslim presence in Brussels wouldn't be very receptive to Marxist rants. And again, facts disagree, seeing how according to 2014 federal election results, it's a left-leaning town [1] [2], with the ISLAM party getting a little over 4% of the vote in the 2012 local election.

 

You are also conflating "dumping" religion and cultural customs and replacing them with mindless, predatory consumerism, with abiding by secular law and deferring to it when it comes into conflict with interpretations of religious texts. It's a proven system. It can be done. So far, your argumentation to the contrary is based on fearmongering and reactionary ideology.

 

I'm perfectly awake. Even painfully so, at times, thank you very much.

Edited July 18, 2016 by 213374U

[Meshugger]

 

I'm perfectly awake. Even painfully so, at times

 

 

??

 

As for the rest, i would suggest looking at the bigger picture than through a materialist lense. Yes, economic development stiffles the revolutionary soul for a while as the normal base needs are satiated. But you should not deny of the spiritual, as thought always proceeds action and i think that you are aware that different groups of people have different logos, pathos, ethos and the how those are transcribed into thought, values and how they should be imposed on others. Otherwise poverty and human development at large would have exactly the same type of problems, no matter where you are. 

 

Reducing humans as mere automatons who need to be fed certain material things is a very, very dangerous route to take. 

[213374U]

As for the rest, i would suggest looking at the bigger picture than through a materialist lense. Yes, economic development stiffles the revolutionary soul for a while as the normal base needs are satiated. But you should not deny of the spiritual, as thought always proceeds action and i think that you are aware that different groups of people have different logos, pathos, ethos and the how those are transcribed into thought, values and how they should be imposed on others. Otherwise poverty and human development at large would have exactly the same type of problems, no matter where you are. 

 

Reducing humans as mere automatons who need to be fed certain material things is a very, very dangerous route to take.

Yes, we are by and large biological automatons, ruled by impulses and instincts that stem from brain structures that first appeared over 200 million years ago.

 

Of course, that's not all we are, but it's not an either/or thing, and the factors discussed don't have exactly the same weight in influencing human conduct. While the upper levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs have come under much criticism, I haven't seen any serious dispute of the base (physiological and safety) needs, which, when under threat, will trigger strong responses that we aren't necessarily in control of, and which are most certainly not rational. Thought precedes action, unless it's instinct-driven.

Edited July 18, 2016 by 213374U

[Rosbjerg]

Have they caught the guy yet?

 

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

[Meshugger]

 

As for the rest, i would suggest looking at the bigger picture than through a materialist lense. Yes, economic development stiffles the revolutionary soul for a while as the normal base needs are satiated. But you should not deny of the spiritual, as thought always proceeds action and i think that you are aware that different groups of people have different logos, pathos, ethos and the how those are transcribed into thought, values and how they should be imposed on others. Otherwise poverty and human development at large would have exactly the same type of problems, no matter where you are. 

 

Reducing humans as mere automatons who need to be fed certain material things is a very, very dangerous route to take.

Yes, we are by and large biological automatons, ruled by impulses and instincts that stem from brain structures that first appeared over 200 million years ago.

 

Of course, that's not all we are, but it's not an either/or thing, and the factors discussed don't have exactly the same weight in influencing human conduct. While the upper levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs have come under much criticism, I haven't seen any serious dispute of the base (physiological and safety) needs, which, when under threat, will trigger strong responses that we aren't necessarily in control of, and which are most certainly not rational. Thought precedes action, unless it's instinct-driven.

 

 

Do'h, i meant preceeds action, but i take it that it was understood that way anyway. 

 

But that is my point, there's little to no recognition of anything else in modern policies other than Maslow's needs, which is one of the reason why society is spiralling into further turmoil. 

[Meshugger]

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

 

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

 

 

Maybe you should add veterans identifying themselves as black. At least for shooting police officers. At least for the killings in Dallas and Baton Rouge.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Meshugger

[Hurlshort]

I do have to say Sheriff David Clarke is pretty awesome.

[Calax]

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

 

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

 

Don't you know, every person who joins the military is a Saint for Defending Our Country from the Evils of Non-America! They Can Do No Wrong and don't look at their homeless numbers please?!

[BruceVC]

 

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

 

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

 

Don't you know, every person who joins the military is a Saint for Defending Our Country from the Evils of Non-America! They Can Do No Wrong and don't look at their homeless numbers please?!

 

That's a concerning point, do many Veterans end up on the street?

[redneckdevil]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

Don't you know, every person who joins the military is a Saint for Defending Our Country from the Evils of Non-America! They Can Do No Wrong and don't look at their homeless numbers please?!

That's a concerning point, do many Veterans end up on the street?

Unfortuantly so.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

Don't you know, every person who joins the military is a Saint for Defending Our Country from the Evils of Non-America! They Can Do No Wrong and don't look at their homeless numbers please?!

That's a concerning point, do many Veterans end up on the street?

Unfortuantly so.

 

It does seem a travesty of civil  society that Veterans end up on the street....anyone ending up on the street is a terrible reality but for Veterans it seems worse 

[Amentep]

 

 

 

 

Have they caught the guy yet?

So it turns out the guy was another war veteran.. like in the other shooting.

 

I suppose, by the logic of many here- that this should put all veterans under scrutiny right?

Don't you know, every person who joins the military is a Saint for Defending Our Country from the Evils of Non-America! They Can Do No Wrong and don't look at their homeless numbers please?!

That's a concerning point, do many Veterans end up on the street?

Unfortuantly so.

 

National Coalition of Homeless Veterans cites 11% of the adult homeless population are veterans.  Estimated to be ~48,000 people nationwide.