Blame Social Justice Warriors for Donald Trump

[Bartimaeus]

1) You are a self confessed "part of the problem" and should be thrown out.

Our behavior (and other's) is more a SYMPTOM of the/a problem than anything else.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

 

1) You are a self confessed "part of the problem" and should be thrown out.

Our behavior (and other's) is more a SYMPTOM of the/a problem than anything else.

 

Okay now I'm  confused, if this bad behavior is a symptom of the problem....what is the problem

 

Because now we seem to be generalizing without going  into details ?

[Gfted1]

Because now we seem to be generalizing without going  into details ?

That's the beauty of the situation. Forums always have armchair moderators, each with an ironclad vision of "how stuff should be done". The hilarious twist this time is that their behavior (and others) is simultaneously the genesis of the "problems" (because they decided there is a problem) AND the results. Since were not hard enough on them they lose the ability to communicate in a civil manner. Or something.

 

We try to keep things loose and this is not an echo chamber where we all have to agree. All opinions are welcome within the forum rules. We cannot read every post in every thread so if a post offends your sensibilities please feel free to make use of the Report button conveniently located at the bottom of every post, and we will take it into consideration.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

That's the beauty of the situation. Forums always have armchair moderators, each with an ironclad vision of "how stuff should be done". The hilarious twist this time is that their behavior (and others) is simultaneously the genesis of the "problems" (because they decided there is a problem) AND the results. Since were not hard enough on them they lose the ability to communicate in a civil manner. 

 

 

 

Your constant hostile misrepresentation of the points brought up wasn't half as annoying if you weren't at the same time admitting that you categorically refuse to even attempt to understand the other side.

 

 

 

We cannot read every post in every thread so if a post offends your sensibilities please feel free to make use of the Report button conveniently located at the bottom of every post, and we will take it into consideration.

 

 

 

Except the rules give us little to no basis to report people unless they engage in "racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks". The definition of what constitutes "harassment" is so vague as to be useless ("Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated" - are there any other kinds of personal attacks?). At the same time, the rules that are clearly phrased ("it is not within the spirit of our forums to allow disrespectful posts about other company's policies, employees, or moderators") are pretty much never enforced as far as I can see.

Edited May 3, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Gfted1]

I guess we all have our crosses to bear. Since the spirit of the forum rules befuddles you, maybe a good general rule of thumb could be to address people in a civil manner?

[Meshugger]

Except the rules give us little to no basis to report people unless they engage in "racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks". The definition of what constitutes "harassment" is so vague as to be useless ("Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated" - are there any other kinds of personal attacks?). At the same time, the rules that are clearly phrased ("it is not within the spirit of our forums to allow disrespectful posts about other company's policies, employees, or moderators") are pretty much never enforced as far as I can see.

 

Go on, don't stop now. What rules should be in place? Care to give an example of what kind of discussion, or posts, should not be tolerated?

[Gorth]

I think Hiro hit the nail on the head. As far as online communities goes, this is a small one and many of the members (the regulars anyway) have been around for a substantial amount of time. People can predict the course of a discussion with an uncanny accuracy and when the end result is already known, why even bother?

 

Occasionally we get a new troll or someone with an outlandish position on a subject and the old ones stirs form their slumber and observes something to the effect of, "someone's been sitting in my chair"???

[Chilloutman]

I think Hiro hit the nail on the head. As far as online communities goes, this is a small one and many of the members (the regulars anyway) have been around for a substantial amount of time. People can predict the course of a discussion with an uncanny accuracy and when the end result is already known, why even bother?

 

Occasionally we get a new troll or someone with an outlandish position on a subject and the old ones stirs form their slumber and observes something to the effect of, "someone's been sitting in my chair"???

We need Quistina back

[Amentep]

Occasionally we get a new troll or someone with an outlandish position on a subject and the old ones stirs form their slumber and observes something to the effect of, "someone's been sitting in my chair"???

 

If only the new trolls would quit posing "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn", the old one would slumber in R'lyeh still...

[Leferd]

I'm still trying to determine if HP and HPII are alts.

[majestic]

That would be very... odd, to say the least.

[Bartimaeus]

 

Because now we seem to be generalizing without going  into details ?

That's the beauty of the situation. Forums always have armchair moderators, each with an ironclad vision of "how stuff should be done". The hilarious twist this time is that their behavior (and others) is simultaneously the genesis of the "problems" (because they decided there is a problem) AND the results. Since were not hard enough on them they lose the ability to communicate in a civil manner. Or something.

 

We try to keep things loose and this is not an echo chamber where we all have to agree. All opinions are welcome within the forum rules. We cannot read every post in every thread so if a post offends your sensibilities please feel free to make use of the Report button conveniently located at the bottom of every post, and we will take it into consideration.

 

What? Alum and I have already stated what we believe the problem to be - the lack of strong rules regarding basic civility, and the lack of enforcement on what is already there. I mean, c'mon, read the anti-trolling rule - it's a complete joke, and is basically inoperable. The anti-harassment rule? Better, but still pretty weak - only the first two sentences are of actually any use, and even those aren't hardly ever enforced.

 

So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and...who are able to freely peddle their nonsense and/or literally perpetually terrible behavior up and down the forums, and then, as a result of being around these people for a prolonged period of time, you get the malcontents like Aluminium, KaineParker, and I that are just so sick of these people that we just stop giving a crap about rules that either aren't there or aren't really enforced. I frequently disagree with the vast majority of the people on these forums on pretty much every issue imaginable...there are only a few people who literally never, ever conduct themselves in an even half-way courteous manner, and there are only a few people who are just so intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest that there's no point in even trying to have a discussion with them - all the times we've tried, we've been stung...and yet, they keep spewing their baloney bullcrap all over the forums constantly, eliciting replies from others in these faux "serious" "discussion" threads, both of which change the direction/focus of the thread and make it an unbearable and useless mess.

 

It just gets old. I honestly don't even know why I bother at this point. Maybe I shouldn't, and should just stick to the less serious threads I like such as the NFL threads and stuff in the tech section.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Volourn]

"So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and."

 

The one acting like a troll is you. Your personal attack on my person has not gone unntoiced, troll. the fact, you compare me to  Bruce the SJW nazis and Oby is  something a trioll would do to get a reaction out of me. Good job. 10/10 Troll Job.

 

The fact you defend Alum whose posts usually  include all sort  of insults directed at anyone who disagrees with them is HILARIOUS.

[Zoraptor]

Lumping Bruce in with oby and volo is deeply unfair. They're both comparatively constructive members.

 

The thing about forum rules is that however you write them they're always up for interpretation, no matter how specific they're made. And really, if people learnt a bit of self control the 'issues' would fix themself, it's only sustained by people who habitually engage. Oby is far less annoying now that Monte and Wals aren't around so much, as they simply couldn't help arguing with him all the time- and no matter how ridiculous he was being.

 

Too much Serious Business that could be solved by a few seconds of self reflection and consideration.

[Bartimaeus]

"So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and."

 

The one acting like a troll is you. Your personal attack on my person has not gone unntoiced, troll. the fact, you compare me to  Bruce the SJW nazis and Oby is  something a trioll would do to get a reaction out of me. Good job. 10/10 Troll Job.

 

The fact you defend Alum whose posts usually  include all sort  of insults directed at anyone who disagrees with them is HILARIOUS.

You're a pretty different kind of troll from the others - there are different kinds - but if it makes you feel better to call me a troll back, well...

[Bartimaeus]

Lumping Bruce in with oby and volo is deeply unfair. They're both comparatively constructive members.

Hah.

 

The thing about forum rules is that however you write them they're always up for interpretation, no matter how specific they're made. And really, if people learnt a bit of self control the 'issues' would fix themself, it's only sustained by people who habitually engage. Oby is far less annoying now that Monte and Wals aren't around so much, as they simply couldn't help arguing with him all the time- and no matter how ridiculous he was being.

 

Too much Serious Business that could be solved by a few seconds of self reflection and consideration.

Yeah, so basically, I can't participate in the political or otherwise serious discussions because these people are always in them and always domineering discussion and people are always replying to and shaping the discussion around their posts. Fun.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Oerwinde]

 

"So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and."

 

The one acting like a troll is you. Your personal attack on my person has not gone unntoiced, troll. the fact, you compare me to Bruce the SJW nazis and Oby is something a trioll would do to get a reaction out of me. Good job. 10/10 Troll Job.

 

The fact you defend Alum whose posts usually include all sort of insults directed at anyone who disagrees with them is HILARIOUS.

You're a pretty different kind of troll from the others - there are different kinds - but if it makes you feel better to call me a troll back, well...

Volo is the forum mascot.

[Meshugger]

 

 

Because now we seem to be generalizing without going  into details ?

That's the beauty of the situation. Forums always have armchair moderators, each with an ironclad vision of "how stuff should be done". The hilarious twist this time is that their behavior (and others) is simultaneously the genesis of the "problems" (because they decided there is a problem) AND the results. Since were not hard enough on them they lose the ability to communicate in a civil manner. Or something.

 

We try to keep things loose and this is not an echo chamber where we all have to agree. All opinions are welcome within the forum rules. We cannot read every post in every thread so if a post offends your sensibilities please feel free to make use of the Report button conveniently located at the bottom of every post, and we will take it into consideration.

 

What? Alum and I have already stated what we believe the problem to be - the lack of strong rules regarding basic civility, and the lack of enforcement on what is already there. I mean, c'mon, read the anti-trolling rule - it's a complete joke, and is basically inoperable. The anti-harassment rule? Better, but still pretty weak - only the first two sentences are of actually any use, and even those aren't hardly ever enforced.

 

So what's the result? Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and...who are able to freely peddle their nonsense and/or literally perpetually terrible behavior up and down the forums, and then, as a result of being around these people for a prolonged period of time, you get the malcontents like Aluminium, KaineParker, and I that are just so sick of these people that we just stop giving a crap about rules that either aren't there or aren't really enforced. I frequently disagree with the vast majority of the people on these forums on pretty much every issue imaginable...there are only a few people who literally never, ever conduct themselves in an even half-way courteous manner, and there are only a few people who are just so intellectually lazy and intellectually dishonest that there's no point in even trying to have a discussion with them - all the times we've tried, we've been stung...and yet, they keep spewing their baloney bullcrap all over the forums constantly, eliciting replies from others in these faux "serious" "discussion" threads, both of which change the direction/focus of the thread and make it an unbearable and useless mess.

 

It just gets old. I honestly don't even know why I bother at this point. Maybe I shouldn't, and should just stick to the less serious threads I like such as the NFL threads and stuff in the tech section.

 

 

 

Lisa, I know that you mean well, but sometimes you just have to accept that there are people different from you. You know, when i was little, i wanted the world to be just like it was at my own tea-party. Where we would all come together and laugh.

 

 

But i soon realized that other people had hopes and dreams completely different from mine, and that you just can't invite the whole world to your own tea-party.

 

...and you wouldn't like it if Milhouse would decide on how to run your tea-parties either, now would you Lisa? ...or perhaps you would? *snicker*

 

Mooom!!

 

I am just kidding with you *snicker* But you see Lisa, it's all part of growing up and it is something we all have to do.

 

 

Thanks mom

 

*Que Simpsons ending-music*

[BruceVC]

Sorry guys but these forums are fine, we have good debates and we have bad debates. People express there honest opinions in a robust manner

 

My advice is if you really find these forums so uncivil and lacking in decorum you should either leave the forums or find other discussions more suitable because I dont see what more you reasonably  expect the Moderators to do?

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, so basically, I can't participate in the political or otherwise serious discussions because these people are always in them and always domineering discussion and people are always replying to and shaping the discussion around their posts. Fun.

Just ignore them, either big I or little i. It's not that hard. If nobody responds, there won't be a problem.

 

After all, as someone has quoted in their sig: if people stop talking to [redacted], he'll leave.

[BruceVC]

 

Yeah, so basically, I can't participate in the political or otherwise serious discussions because these people are always in them and always domineering discussion and people are always replying to and shaping the discussion around their posts. Fun.

Just ignore them, either big I or little i. It's not that hard. If nobody responds, there won't be a problem.

 

After all, as someone has quoted in their sig: if people stop talking to [redacted], he'll leave.

 

That's true, if no one talks to me I will leave ....but people keep talking to me so I stay 

[Guard Dog]

Well, if you like political discussions from the left there is always Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/ ) and from the right there is Free Republic (http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index). Although I should warn you, they do not tolerate dissenting opinions on anything. Since I've been banned from both (same user name Guard dog) I'm speaking from experience. Those are not spaces for debate, they are echo chambers. But if hearing a dissenting opinion on anything bothers you (not singling anyone out here) one of those two might appeal. 

 

Now bear in mind, neither of those sites are much practiced in what you might call "civil discourse". You can expect to be verbally abused is you are a Trump supporter talking to Ted Cruz people on FR. If you are a Bernie supporter on DU don't be upset when Team Hillary tells you that you should be killed.DU is much, much worse than FR I've noticed.

[Bartimaeus]

Well, if you like political discussions from the left there is always Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/ ) and from the right there is Free Republic (http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/*/index). Although I should warn you, they do not tolerate dissenting opinions on anything. Since I've been banned from both (same user name Guard dog) I'm speaking from experience. Those are not spaces for debate, they are echo chambers. But if hearing a dissenting opinion on anything bothers you (not singling anyone out here) one of those two might appeal. 

 

Now bear in mind, neither of those sites are much practiced in what you might call "civil discourse". You can expect to be verbally abused is you are a Trump supporter talking to Ted Cruz people on FR. If you are a Bernie supporter on DU don't be upset when Team Hillary tells you that you should be killed.DU is much, much worse than FR I've noticed.

Yeah, I don't really want to go to either of those, as I'm a bit of an in-betweener politically speaking, so it sounds like I'd probably get banned from both for being a "dissenting" "troll". But anyways, @you and @Meshugger, it's not dissenting opinions I mind - like I said before, I disagree with virtually everyone on here about at least a few things, yourselves included. That doesn't really bother me - I respect most people's opinions and life experiences, even (and maybe especially) when they differ from mine. As I've tried to make clear in previous posts, that's just not really what I find to be the issue for me here on the Obsidian forums...

Edited May 4, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

What? Alum and I have already stated what we believe the problem to be - the lack of strong rules regarding basic civility, and the lack of enforcement on what is already there. I mean, c'mon, read the anti-trolling rule - it's a complete joke, and is basically inoperable. The anti-harassment rule? Better, but still pretty weak - only the first two sentences are of actually any use, and even those aren't hardly ever enforced.

These forum's moderation has always seemed to operate under a "no harm/no foul" rule.  Or put another way, that if - instead of clicking the "report" button because someone posts a personal attack against you in a disagreement, you respond with your own personal attacks - more than likely the mods are going to let it slide unless you continue to virtually pull hair for a couple of pages or a third party complains.

 

My experience is that most people who get into these kinds of arguments are giving as good as they got.  At that point it becomes a case of "who shot John?".

 

Poster 1: "He threw the first punch!"

Poster 2: "No he threw one five pages ago!"

Poster 1: "He threw one on this other thread!"

Poster 2: "But he threw one in a thread before that!"

Poster 1: "Oh but this all started when he threw a punch in a thread three years ago!"

Poster 2: "You punched me four years ago!"

 

And at that point the mod questions the sanity of their decision to join the mod team and punishes both people, which then leads to all of Poster 1's and Poster 2's pals complaining that the mods were heavy handed because THEIR pal didn't start it, the other guy did so why is THEIR pal getting punished and how this would never happen at the RPG Codex and we get pages and pages of people whinging about draconian moderation and Bioware's and Bethesda's forums (because people here always complain about Bioware and Bethesda) and the mods vodka intake increases 20% and they lay low for awhile.

 

...

 

I might have went overboard with the hyperbole there.  Sorry.

 

...

 

Anyhow, I do agree the Trolling rule reads a bit weird.  I think its missing some words.  I italicized an example and what I think needs a fix:

"It's OK to say you don't like a game, but referring to another company's employees or the company itself to troll or harass is simply not be tolerated here. Posts which intentionally attack another game company and/or it's employees will be deleted and the member censured accordingly"

 

At the very least the phrase "...or the company itself is simply not be tolerated here." needs to be changed. 

[Gfted1]

Simple: you get a bunch of trolls or frequently troll-like people such as Bruce and Obyknven and Volourn and...who are able to freely peddle their nonsense and/or literally perpetually terrible behavior up and down the forums, and then, as a result of being around these people for a prolonged period of time, you get the malcontents like Aluminium, KaineParker, and I that are just so sick of these people that we just stop giving a crap about rules...

"I don't like a, b, and c so Imma crap up x, y, and z"? Is that about the gist? Seems legit.

 

Alternatively, you may consider ignoring those posters that you do not approve of.