Blame Social Justice Warriors for Donald Trump

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

No.

 

You conveniently left out the inflammatory remarks by others (SJWs) including yourself stating... "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". 

 

 

 

It's about as inflammatory - or controversial - as saying that having no limbs precludes one from winning an MMA championship.

 

Of course, I'm always ready to learn new things, and as soon as you provide me with statistics regarding successful university applications by people with sub-75 IQ, I'll revise my opinion.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

You know, this is kind of have I've been feeling about most of the "serious discussion" threads lately...

 

 

Elaborate.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Given that you wrote this post, please be a bit more honest when you quote or paraphrase me, as I in fact did not say proclaim 'SJWs to be mentally retarded' (though I would say (yet I didn't) that it's safe to say that most if not all SJWs are either mentally retarded and/or insane). If you're more honest, logic and reason will better be your friend. Also, there was never any hyperbole in what I wrote (the only time I use hyperbole (which is quite rare) is for satirical or comedic effect, and I was not engaging in satire or comedy in the post you replied to).

 

 

I'm not feeling up to engaging in an argument about whether it constitutes the worst kind of sophistry to say "these people are, no hyperbole, literally mentally retarded EXCEPT not in the medical sense but what can only assume, using the Oxford dictionary, to regardless mean 'reduced in a developmental capacity' that is somehow still meaningfully different from the medical definition". (But it totally does.)

 

Nevertheless, I found your accusations of dishonesty chuckle-worthy. "HOW DARE YOU SAY I PROCLAIMED SJWs TO BE MENTALLY RETARDED? IN TRUTH, I CALLED MOST, IF NOT ALL OF THEM MENTALLY RETARDED AND/OR INSANE!"

[Oerwinde]

I'm not inclined to think that being an ethnocentric society is important. There have been plenty of ethnocentric societies that were failures. I've yet to hear of a classical liberal society that ever became a failed state. I will grant that the, "diversity is our strength" meme is stupid, but it's not a weakness either. It's merely a thing. What matters is values.

 

Common values are important for a stable society, and the rates of immigration in the west are making assimilation more and more difficult, which breaks down the common values. One government official got a lot of flack a few years back for referring to the Irish as "culturally compatible" with Canada, while trying to attract Irish immigrants. He was called racist and had to apologize for his remarks, but he was right. The Irish are white, generally christian, who live under a parliamentary liberal democracy, and speak english. They are essentially the ideal immigrants, because they can fit in right away with maybe some curiosity over their accent. Most immigrants from the commonwealth realms fit in quite quickly, even Jamaicans. In Vancouver we get a lot more Asian immigrants than European or African, but we find the Chinese tend to keep to themselves in ghettos, though they are very well off ghettos, while Indian Sikhs and Filipinos join right in with the rest of society. Indian Hindus and Chinese often refer to India and China as "back home" even if they were born in Canada, while Filipino and Sikhs refer to their country of origin as "The Phillipines" or "India", even if they are recent immigrants.

 

Anyway, my point is that while the SJW types tend to put a lot of importance on race, culture is much more important. For a society to be stable, its people need to feel like they are one people. This culture of celebrating differences that politicians and the media like to push only divides people as the focus is pushed away from what unites us to what separates us. A country needs to have a culture, not thousands of pieces loosely held together by laws.

 

 

 

This Black Pigeon Speaks seems to have come from nowhere with very good production values in it's (their?) videos. While i am not 100% behind each statement, it's nice to see some more coherent criticism of the current failed system.

 

Yeah, I don't agree with everything, his Women Destroy Civilization one was pretty controversial, but he still made some good points. I also like his voice. He's kinda sounds like a conservative CGP Grey, which makes him easy to listen to. His videos don't seem as long as they are because they are so well made.

[Meshugger]

 

Video

Good video.

 

I posted this in another thread. It has related relevance here.

 

I do wonder just how many have read Orwell or someone like him, let alone someone like Bernays, and realize just how steeped our modern culture and media are in doublespeak, and as a result doublethink and/or cognitive dissonance (though there is a degree of chicken and egg going on as the 'speak and 'think/cd tend to feed each other). And if they do realize it (by way of Orwell, Bernays, or some other), have they put any significant thought into it. The whys, the hows, especially. Methinks that on a society-wide scale, the answer sadly is not many, hence the relatively few very successful puppeteers pulling the strings of so many, and to the many's detriment ('Diversity is strength' is just one example). However on a hopeful note, I think a growing number do perceive the increasingly blatant danger of 'diversity' instinctively, if not consciously. Then again, if it's only ever instinctually perceived, that could ultimately portend disaster.

 

It is certainly safe to say that for Joe/Jane SJW, Orwell and Bernays are beyond them. One can hope that at least for some of them, that will one day not be true.

 

Perceive or not though, grave dangers not seen in some time in the western world are ahead for a large number folks no matter how you slice it at this point as a number of Rubicons have been crossed. Potentially on an unprecedentedly dark scale, as the 'diversity' we've got growing in Europe and North America is not peaceably tenable in the long run, no matter how many times 'lalalalalalalalala!' is lullabied.

 

 

It's nice to see someone pointing out the influence of Bernays on modern society. PR, marketing, focus group testing and political campaigning is pretty much based on his ideas, and applied methods of such, about humanity. Watch "The Century of the Self" by Adam Curtis for more, the same guy who brought us "The Power of Nightmares".

 

As for SJWs, one could try to argue that their views bear the same value as their values are based on a set of axioms just like any other idea or philosophy. But that in itself bears no merit as their axioms are faulty to begin with and they behave like emotional children once pointed out as such because they have no where else to go.

 

Personally, i have been at war with this kind of thinking for a long while (long before Sad Puppies, Atheism+, GG and such) as i have great interest in the arts. Basically speaking, it's a perversion of beauty and how we view ourselves in our civilization. The pathos of a painting has to have structuralist/post-modern meaning that can only be explained through a curator from an expensive university, who in turn works as a middle man for galleries selling basically crap for millions of dollars as the rich need to speculate on safer investments than junk-bonds and derivatives.

 

The result is that people like Banksy and a heap of dirt on the floor is worth millions and celebrated, all while art like this

 

http://drawingacademy.com/serge-marshennikov-female-beauty-painter 

 

is while popular among certain circles, is treated like a random painter among the rest. The old wisdom of a painting being a failure as a visual medium if you have to explain through words is completely alien to these people.

 

This cancer is the bane of our society. It is a rejection of truth, beauty and realism.

[Namutree]

 

The result is that people like Banksy and a heap of dirt on the floor is worth millions and celebrated, all while art like this

 

http://drawingacademy.com/serge-marshennikov-female-beauty-painter 

 

is while popular among certain circles, is treated like a random painter among the rest. The old wisdom of a painting being a failure as a visual medium if you have to explain through words is completely alien to these people.

 

Why are the women in his paintings either naked, unconscious, or both?

[Meshugger]

Patriarchy, of course.

[Meshugger]

Another example of ableist, patriarchical, imperialistic, exclusive, cis-art with no other purpose to satisfy the male gaze:

 

 

Look at that lack of diversity! look at the total lack of deconstruction of western and capitalistic society! We should be happy that we have finally grown up as a society and embraced better values than this toxic masculinity.

 

 

Yuck!

[Gfted1]

Do you happen to know the names of those pieces?

[Bartimaeus]

Elaborate.

It's just becoming pretty painful to sit through most of these threads, where it seems like discussion has gotten especially repetitive and boneheaded lately. I especially get annoyed anytime people start doing those idiotic "gotcha"s people have been posting lately every time they reply and "prove" the other person wrong. Gettin' old.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Hiro Protagonist]

But Barti this discussion was hijacked and I think intentionally misunderstood by Vals and Hiro

 

Not at all. It would be good if you could stop your dishonesty. You've been proven time and again on these forums how wrong you've been.

[Hiro Protagonist]

It's about as inflammatory - or controversial - as saying that having no limbs precludes one from winning an MMA championship.

 

Of course, I'm always ready to learn new things, and as soon as you provide me with statistics regarding successful university applications by people with sub-75 IQ, I'll revise my opinion.

 

Wow. How's that hole your digging for yourself? Just when I thought you couldn't get any deeper, you do.

[Meshugger]

Do you happen to know the names of those pieces?

 

The first is "Veiled Truth" by Antonio Corradini. It can be found Capella Sansevero in Naples, Italy.

 

The second is "Hercules and the Hydra". Found in London, England (i can't find which museum).

 

Here's another example of what can only be produced by a patrarichal, sexist, misogynic and racist society:

 

Behold, "Christ in the Wilderness" by Ivan Kramskoi, 1872.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Meshugger

[BruceVC]

I watched the whole video, it had some interesting points but also  many comments that were  simply misinformed and based on a level of bias 

 

Oerwinde if you are interested I can go into more detail but if you not so keen then its fine but I will refute the overall message using facts and current examples so it may be interesting ?

Edited April 30, 2016 by BruceVC

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

It's about as inflammatory - or controversial - as saying that having no limbs precludes one from winning an MMA championship.

 

Of course, I'm always ready to learn new things, and as soon as you provide me with statistics regarding successful university applications by people with sub-75 IQ, I'll revise my opinion.

 

Wow. How's that hole your digging for yourself? Just when I thought you couldn't get any deeper, you do.

 

 

So how's that reductio ad absurdum working out for you m8?

[Hiro Protagonist]

The most rudimentary of google searches came up with the below in less than 2 seconds. How's that eating crow working out for you?
 
Flinders University
http://www.flinders.edu.au/sohs/sites/disability-studies/associated-programs/up-the-hill-project---flinders-university.cfm
 
University of Queensland
 
With programs running in Australia and Ireland, and a Canadian trial completed, Latch-On has helped more than 150 students achieve their full potential, while helping re-set society’s perceptions of intellectual disability.
 
http://www.uq.edu.au/research/research-at-uq/new-options-intellectual-disability
 
George Mason University
 
https://masonlife.gmu.edu/news/stories/headingtocollege
 
PennState University
 
Twenty–eight states offer a total of 110 officially registered college programs for students with intellectual disabilities (CTC, 2010).
 
https://dus.psu.edu/mentor/2011/05/intellectual-disability-programs/
 
Portland State University
 
PSU program opens doors of higher ed to students with intellectual disabilities
 
http://www.pdx.edu/ceed/news/psu-program-opens-doors-higher-ed-students-intellectual-disabilities
 
Kent State University
 
https://www.kent.edu/kent/news/first-group-students-intellectual-disabilities-gets-ready-graduate-kent-state’s-career-and
 
U.S. News (13 Feb 2009)
 
...help Apostolides learn at a collegiate level in spite of her Down syndrome, an intellectual disability. If Apostolides passes her classes this semester, she will receive her associate's degree.
 
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/02/13/college-is-possible-for-students-with-intellectual-disabilities

 

EDIT: I have more links to throw at you.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Elaborate.

It's just becoming pretty painful to sit through most of these threads, where it seems like discussion has gotten especially repetitive and boneheaded lately. I especially get annoyed anytime people start doing those idiotic "gotcha"s people have been posting lately every time they reply and "prove" the other person wrong. Gettin' old.

 

 

 

Well I'm sure this makes me a massive hypocrite considering I haven't done much to improve the atmosphere of the discussion around here, but... opting out doesn't really help.

 

I mean, ideally, moderation would set standards of behavior that are conducive to a constructive exchange of ideas and clamp down hard on pointlessly antagonistic bull**** (which, again, I'm sure would get me banned in, like, two weeks but still) - but given that they apparently don't consider setting up such rules a priority, I think it falls upon the participants to combat that kind of crap. Which I'm not entirely sure how to do - I guess politely phrased, informative and topic-relevant posts in great enough numbers to drown out the noise would do the trick?

[BruceVC]

The most rudimentary of google searches came up with the below in less than 2 seconds. How's that eating crow working out for you?

 

Flinders University

http://www.flinders.edu.au/sohs/sites/disability-studies/associated-programs/up-the-hill-project---flinders-university.cfm

 

University of Queensland

 

With programs running in Australia and Ireland, and a Canadian trial completed, Latch-On has helped more than 150 students achieve their full potential, while helping re-set society’s perceptions of intellectual disability.

 

http://www.uq.edu.au/research/research-at-uq/new-options-intellectual-disability

 

George Mason University

 

https://masonlife.gmu.edu/news/stories/headingtocollege

 

PennState University

 

Twenty–eight states offer a total of 110 officially registered college programs for students with intellectual disabilities (CTC, 2010).

 

https://dus.psu.edu/mentor/2011/05/intellectual-disability-programs/

 

Portland State University

 

PSU program opens doors of higher ed to students with intellectual disabilities

 

http://www.pdx.edu/ceed/news/psu-program-opens-doors-higher-ed-students-intellectual-disabilities

 

Kent State University

 

https://www.kent.edu/kent/news/first-group-students-intellectual-disabilities-gets-ready-graduate-kent-state’s-career-and

 

U.S. News (13 Feb 2009)

 

...help Apostolides learn at a collegiate level in spite of her Down syndrome, an intellectual disability. If Apostolides passes her classes this semester, she will receive her associate's degree.

 

http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/02/13/college-is-possible-for-students-with-intellectual-disabilities

 

EDIT: I have more links to throw at you.

But why didnt you just make this post in the beginning....it would have made your overall point much more meaningful and the general continued argument would have ended quickly 

 

So in other words you have evidence that some  mentally retarded people can and do go to some Universities ?

 

I find that interesting and I learnt something new 

[Hurlshort]

That doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand.  I doubt there is a lot of crossover between the people that have overcome intellectual disabilities to attend Universities and the people these "social justice warriors" you guys are so up in arms about.  

 

It's actually pretty insulting to even compare the two.  

[aluminiumtrioxid]

The most rudimentary of google searches came up with the below in less than 2 seconds. How's that eating crow working out for you?

 

Flinders University

http://www.flinders.edu.au/sohs/sites/disability-studies/associated-programs/up-the-hill-project---flinders-university.cfm

 

University of Queensland

 

With programs running in Australia and Ireland, and a Canadian trial completed, Latch-On has helped more than 150 students achieve their full potential, while helping re-set society’s perceptions of intellectual disability.

 

http://www.uq.edu.au/research/research-at-uq/new-options-intellectual-disability

 

George Mason University

 

https://masonlife.gmu.edu/news/stories/headingtocollege

 

PennState University

 

Twenty–eight states offer a total of 110 officially registered college programs for students with intellectual disabilities (CTC, 2010).

 

https://dus.psu.edu/mentor/2011/05/intellectual-disability-programs/

 

Portland State University

 

PSU program opens doors of higher ed to students with intellectual disabilities

 

http://www.pdx.edu/ceed/news/psu-program-opens-doors-higher-ed-students-intellectual-disabilities

 

Kent State University

 

https://www.kent.edu/kent/news/first-group-students-intellectual-disabilities-gets-ready-graduate-kent-state’s-career-and

 

U.S. News (13 Feb 2009)

 

...help Apostolides learn at a collegiate level in spite of her Down syndrome, an intellectual disability. 

 

 

Which is great but there's a difference between "intellectual disability as a catchall term for, well, intellectual disabilities" and "intellectual disability as a medical term which replaced 'mental retardation' (also called intellectual developmental disability or general learning disability), because let's face it 'mental retardation' is an awful term to use in this context" - and from the context of the discussion, it was pretty obvious I was using the term in the second sense.

 

So... close but no cigar.

 

Edit: moreover, while it's pretty cool that universities offer programs for people with intellectual disabilities, I'm pretty sure they're not the same programs those dastardly ess-jee-double-us attend, so there's that as well.

Edited April 30, 2016 by aluminiumtrioxid

[BruceVC]

 

 

Elaborate.

It's just becoming pretty painful to sit through most of these threads, where it seems like discussion has gotten especially repetitive and boneheaded lately. I especially get annoyed anytime people start doing those idiotic "gotcha"s people have been posting lately every time they reply and "prove" the other person wrong. Gettin' old.

 

 

 

Well I'm sure this makes me a massive hypocrite considering I haven't done much to improve the atmosphere of the discussion around here, but... opting out doesn't really help.

 

I mean, ideally, moderation would set standards of behavior that are conducive to a constructive exchange of ideas and clamp down hard on pointlessly antagonistic bull**** (which, again, I'm sure would get me banned in, like, two weeks but still) - but given that they apparently don't consider setting up such rules a priority, I think it falls upon the participants to combat that kind of crap. Which I'm not entirely sure how to do - I guess politely phrased, informative and topic-relevant posts in great enough numbers to drown out the noise would do the trick?

 

alum dont take it personally, Barti means well but he is missing something

 

I have never considered the various debates members get into as interesting to everyone ? I generally enjoy your debates but  were you  under the impression most members followed or cared what you guys were saying?

 

Its never been like that as generally only some people get involved  but thats no reason to stop commenting the way you do because if you now stopped because some members didn't appreciate or understand it that would seem an overreaction .?

[Hiro Protagonist]

Which is great but there's a difference between "intellectual disability as a catchall term for, well, intellectual disabilities" and "intellectual disability as a medical term which replaced 'mental retardation' (also called intellectual developmental disability or general learning disability), because let's face it 'mental retardation' is an awful term to use in this context" - and from the context of the discussion, it was pretty obvious I was using the term in the second sense.

 

So... close but no cigar.

 

Moving the goal posts. What an intellectually dishonest position to take. You can't own up to the fact that you were wrong about what you said and I quote: "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". 

 

But then again with your pride and ego, you could never admit you're wrong.

[BruceVC]

That doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand.  I doubt there is a lot of crossover between the people that have overcome intellectual disabilities to attend Universities and the people these "social justice warriors" you guys are so up in arms about.  

 

It's actually pretty insulting to even compare the two.  

Hurlshot if you have insight we are missing please share it?

 

I am interested in your personal views as you are a teacher and are actively involved in helping younger people but for example you said the debate was ill-conceived? What did you mean by that ?

 

To me its like on this topic you keep criticizing the tone and comments but you wont explain your view so maybe we can  all learn something

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Which is great but there's a difference between "intellectual disability as a catchall term for, well, intellectual disabilities" and "intellectual disability as a medical term which replaced 'mental retardation' (also called intellectual developmental disability or general learning disability), because let's face it 'mental retardation' is an awful term to use in this context" - and from the context of the discussion, it was pretty obvious I was using the term in the second sense.

 

So... close but no cigar.

 

Moving the goal posts. What an intellectually dishonest position to take. You can't own up to the fact that you were wrong about what you said and I quote: "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". 

 

But then again with your pride and ego, you could never admit you're wrong.

 

 

 

That's a funny thing coming from the poster boy of being unable to read nine paragraphs of a medical definition that was right in front of his nose and then doubling down on the uninformed idiocy he was spouting, but hey, who am I to judge?

 

If you're looking for an admission of having been wrong about the chances of people with intellectual disabilities to get into university, there you have it: I have been wrong. People with IDD can get into universities. Which, by the way, is a pretty cool thing, all in all, and I guess I owe you thanks for broadening my horizons with that new tidbit of information. So thank you.

[Hiro Protagonist]

That's a funny thing coming from the poster boy of being unable to read nine paragraphs of a medical definition that was right in front of his nose and then doubling down on the uninformed idiocy he was spouting, but hey, who am I to judge?

 

If you're looking for an admission of having been wrong about the chances of people with intellectual disabilities to get into university, there you have it: I have been wrong. People with IDD can get into universities. Which, by the way, is a pretty cool thing, all in all, and I guess I owe you thanks for broadening my horizons with that new tidbit of information. So thank you.

 

Aww. Sore loser detected.