European Refugee Crisis : Part 2

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It's an interview with Slavoj Zizek Bruce, not a report. If you can refute what he says do it, if not then continue on with pointless ad hominems.

 

 

Coke addicted homeless man makes good points about the crisis

 

 

He almost sounds like /pol/.

 

What a time to be alive.

How so? He sounds quite like another politics board, except without calling everything a spook.

[BruceVC]

It's an interview with Slavoj Zizek Bruce, not a report. If you can refute what he says do it, if not then continue on with pointless ad hominems.

 

Excellent ...sorry to seem to nag but I was worried, not sure why you see it as an attack on you?

Its RT im criticizing 

[BruceVC]

It's an interview with Slavoj Zizek Bruce, not a report. If you can refute what he says do it, if not then continue on with pointless ad hominems.

 

 

Coke addicted homeless man makes good points about the crisis

 

He almost sounds like /pol/.

 

What a time to be alive.

How so? He sounds quite like another politics board, except without calling everything a spook.

 

I was about to point out some serious issues with what he says but then  I read 

 

What about the very rich Arab countries, very much richer than Europe, which are closer to the crisis area, such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates? These are Sunni countries. Most of the refugees are Sunni Muslims.”

 

I have saying the same thing, its a real irritation 

[Meshugger]

It's an interview with Slavoj Zizek Bruce, not a report. If you can refute what he says do it, if not then continue on with pointless ad hominems.

 

 

Coke addicted homeless man makes good points about the crisis

 

He almost sounds like /pol/.

 

What a time to be alive.

How so? He sounds quite like another politics board, except without calling everything a spook.

 

 

He's analysis & criticism is the same, just without the spook.

[obyknven]

Best friends of EU planned something. Allahu Akbar!

http://youtu.be/mubUlAyGIO8

[Meshugger]

Russian state-approved news or not, you're preaching to the choir.

 

No one here likes Turkey or their policies.

[obyknven]

Russian state-approved news or not, you're preaching to the choir.

 

No one here likes Turkey or their policies.

If citizens of the West don't like Turkey (and migrants), why Western authorities support them? It's looks like "democracy" in EU/US don't work properly.

[Elerond]

UK must leave European convention on human rights, says Theresa May

 

"“The ECHR can bind the hands of parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals – and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments like Russia’s when it comes to human rights,” she said.

“So regardless of the EU referendum, my view is this: If we want to reform human rights laws in this country, it isn’t the EU we should leave but the ECHR and the jurisdiction of its court.”"

 

 

I find it bit funny that it is UK that has problems with ECHR as ECHR is British designed institution that they drive through after WWII, to prevent countries making policies that she speaks for now. Also it is bit funny that she seems to have forgotten that membership of EU requires membership in ECHR. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Elerond

[obyknven]

Looks like many people of the West (influental people especially) very like Turkey or their politics IRL.

Firstly Obama promise recognize the Armenian genocide
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/511/recognize-armenian-genocide/

 

"Two years ago, I criticized the Secretary of State for the firing of U.S. Ambassador to Armenia, John Evans, after he properly used the term 'genocide' to describe Turkey's slaughter of thousands of Armenians starting in 1915. … as President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide."

 
But this promise has been deleted from Obama's cite
https://www.barackobama.com/2008/01/19/barack_obama_on_the_importance.php/
 
And WallStreet journal Runs Ad Denying Genocide That Killed Over 650,000 People.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/04/21/3771670/genocide-armenia-turkey/

 

 

 

[Meshugger]

 

Russian state-approved news or not, you're preaching to the choir.

 

No one here likes Turkey or their policies.

If citizens of the West don't like Turkey (and migrants), why Western authorities support them? It's looks like "democracy" in EU/US don't work properly.

 

 

Because those not represented by the people have other ideas and of course those represented don't always act out according to the wishes either.

 

UK must leave European convention on human rights, says Theresa May

 

"“The ECHR can bind the hands of parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals – and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments like Russia’s when it comes to human rights,” she said.

“So regardless of the EU referendum, my view is this: If we want to reform human rights laws in this country, it isn’t the EU we should leave but the ECHR and the jurisdiction of its court.”"

 

 

I find it bit funny that it is UK that has problems with ECHR as ECHR is British designed institution that they drive through after WWII, to prevent countries making policies that she speaks for now. Also it is bit funny that she seems to have forgotten that membership of EU requires membership in ECHR. 

 

In the world of politics, anything can be negotiated.

[Zoraptor]

Merkel has to love Turkey, because Erdy has her by the balls over the refugee crisis- indeed, her recent visit was basically continuous low grade ritual humiliation. Any of the EU countries that pays more than lip service to things like open borders and continuous integration has to love Erdy, at present, no option. Obama has to love Turkey because they're in NATO, and in perhaps the single most strategically important position in NATO with its second largest army. Plus, he's been elected so promises to rich Armenian donors don't mean jack any more.

 

Having said that, most people don't hate Turkey, they hate Erdogan and the AKP.

[Valsuelm]

[Meshugger]

^The bitter truth is slowly seeping in.

[Darkpriest]

well, there are some valid points, but i do think that it is too much religion based, than tradition based point of view. Tradition =/= religon

[Meshugger]

well, there are some valid points, but i do think that it is too much religion based, than tradition based point of view. Tradition =/= religon

 

True, but they tend to overlap quite a lot, which can lead to people getting to the same conclusions despite starting from different assumptions.

[BruceVC]

Guys I am constantly surprised by this anti-Turkey rhetoric, the West considers Turkey of important strategic value and it is

 

So when I have heard these "doom and gloom " assessments about how NATO views Turkey they are generally wrong. For example 

 

• When the Russian jet was shot down by Turkey this was " definitely the end of the Turkey contribution towards anti-ISIS coalition "
•  " Turkey is funding ISIS..why is the West so stoooopid " , also an  exaggeration around how much support Turkey actually gives ISIS

Everything the EU and NATO has done for Turkey is because Turkey is an important player in the region..this is an irrefutable fact. For example

 

• The new refugee swap program when migrants are sent back to Turkey
• The fact Turkey is one of the major places refugees can get into the EU ...so whether the EU funds Turkey or supports them politically its in the best interest of the EU  to ensure that Turkey stays a friend to the West so that Turkey can address some of the hard and morally questionable work required to keep as many immigrants out of the EU as humanly possible 

 

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

Edited April 28, 2016 by BruceVC

[Darkpriest]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/austria-considers-rejecting-most-migrants-amid-far-surge-003357542.html

[majestic]

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

 

Yes Bruce, we get it. Turkey is a NATO member so the Muslim-Putin can do as he pleases while we sort of have to oppose the real Putin because it is tradition. Not to mention that we wouldn't need to let ourselves be blackmailed by Turkey if Germany hadn't messed up Greece so much that they just can't control their borders at all, and not for a lack of wanting.

 

So anyway once the deal with Turkey is fully underway we'll just have a massive influx of legal Turkish unskilled immigrants instead of a massive influx of unskilled refugees from Syria and Afghanistan (and those at least could be legally deported once they are denied asylum).

 

Sounds about right. Surely that is much better than the current situation.

Edited April 27, 2016 by majestic

[BruceVC]

 

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

 

Yes Bruce, we get it. Turkey is a NATO member so the Muslim-Putin can do as he pleases while we sort of have to oppose the real Putin because it is tradition. Not to mention that we wouldn't need to let ourselves be blackmailed by Turkey if Germany hadn't messed up Greece so much that they just can't control their borders at all, and not for a lack of wanting.

 

So anyway once the deal with Turkey is fully underway we'll just have a massive influx of legal Turkish unskilled immigrants instead of a massive influx of unskilled refugees from Syria and Afghanistan (and those at least could be legally deported once they are denied asylum).

 

Sounds about right. Surely that is much better than the current situation.

 

Okay well thats one way of looking at this, in a very negative way 

 

But surly  " unskilled Turkish immigrants " is something the EU is use to...isn't that better than immigrants coming from countries like Iraq, Syria, Sudan etc. 

 

The EU is use to Turkish immigrants?

[Meshugger]

 

 

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

 

Yes Bruce, we get it. Turkey is a NATO member so the Muslim-Putin can do as he pleases while we sort of have to oppose the real Putin because it is tradition. Not to mention that we wouldn't need to let ourselves be blackmailed by Turkey if Germany hadn't messed up Greece so much that they just can't control their borders at all, and not for a lack of wanting.

 

So anyway once the deal with Turkey is fully underway we'll just have a massive influx of legal Turkish unskilled immigrants instead of a massive influx of unskilled refugees from Syria and Afghanistan (and those at least could be legally deported once they are denied asylum).

 

Sounds about right. Surely that is much better than the current situation.

 

Okay well thats one way of looking at this, in a very negative way 

 

But surly  " unskilled Turkish immigrants " is something the EU is use to...isn't that better than immigrants coming from countries like Iraq, Syria, Sudan etc. 

 

The EU is use to Turkish immigrants?

 

 

He meant that the the same "refugees" that will be shipped off to Turkey will come back with Turkish passports instead.

 

Only Germany has any significant Turkish minority, who arrived with the Gastarbeiterprogramm in the 60's and 70's, but stayed instead of the planned departure. They are now effectively living in a parallel society in Germany and are more interested in the latest news from Ankara than Berlin. If anything, they are the prime example of how a society becomes more fractured due to an alien culture refusing to be assimilated. We are now talking about a third generation of turks living in a country the care little about.

 

In other countries a few turks may have a kebab-stand here and there.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

 

Yes Bruce, we get it. Turkey is a NATO member so the Muslim-Putin can do as he pleases while we sort of have to oppose the real Putin because it is tradition. Not to mention that we wouldn't need to let ourselves be blackmailed by Turkey if Germany hadn't messed up Greece so much that they just can't control their borders at all, and not for a lack of wanting.

 

So anyway once the deal with Turkey is fully underway we'll just have a massive influx of legal Turkish unskilled immigrants instead of a massive influx of unskilled refugees from Syria and Afghanistan (and those at least could be legally deported once they are denied asylum).

 

Sounds about right. Surely that is much better than the current situation.

 

Okay well thats one way of looking at this, in a very negative way 

 

But surly  " unskilled Turkish immigrants " is something the EU is use to...isn't that better than immigrants coming from countries like Iraq, Syria, Sudan etc. 

 

The EU is use to Turkish immigrants?

 

 

He meant that the the same "refugees" that will be shipped off to Turkey will come back with Turkish passports instead.

 

But thats not how the EU\Turkey deal is suppose to work or is structured

 

People sent back to Turkey end up at the back of the line to now wait to get into the EU and only real  Turkish citizens end up being sent to the EU

 

Can you produce any credible  links to support your criticism because if what you saying is true it would indeed make the whole agreement moot 

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Yes Erdogan has clamped down on basic human rights, many of his views are concerning but his positions  around domestic policy are not enough to now make " Turkey an enemy of the West " 

 

Yes Bruce, we get it. Turkey is a NATO member so the Muslim-Putin can do as he pleases while we sort of have to oppose the real Putin because it is tradition. Not to mention that we wouldn't need to let ourselves be blackmailed by Turkey if Germany hadn't messed up Greece so much that they just can't control their borders at all, and not for a lack of wanting.

 

So anyway once the deal with Turkey is fully underway we'll just have a massive influx of legal Turkish unskilled immigrants instead of a massive influx of unskilled refugees from Syria and Afghanistan (and those at least could be legally deported once they are denied asylum).

 

Sounds about right. Surely that is much better than the current situation.

 

Okay well thats one way of looking at this, in a very negative way 

 

But surly  " unskilled Turkish immigrants " is something the EU is use to...isn't that better than immigrants coming from countries like Iraq, Syria, Sudan etc. 

 

The EU is use to Turkish immigrants?

 

 

He meant that the the same "refugees" that will be shipped off to Turkey will come back with Turkish passports instead.

 

But thats not how the EU\Turkey deal is suppose to work or is structured

 

People sent back to Turkey end up at the back of the line to now wait to get into the EU and only real  Turkish citizens end up being sent to the EU

 

Can you produce any credible  links to support your criticism because if what you saying is true it would indeed make the whole agreement moot 

 

 

The deal bears zero merit as it grants Visa-free travel for Turkish citizens and it depends on Turkey enforcing the rules to begin with, of which it has no incentive to do since there's zero punishment from Merkel and her ilk if they decide to do otherwise.

[obyknven]

In other countries a few turks may have a kebab-stand here and there.

 

[obyknven]

Main problem of migration into EU - mostly weirdos and losers (or non-educated peasants) decide to leave own homelands and go into Europ for life of subslave toiletcleaner. In result we have funny situation when Turks in Stambul looks like this

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile Turks in Europ have such explossive appearance.

 

 

It's systemic problem and situation in future can become only worse. EU become sh*** place not because of Middle-Easterners or Africans, but because of World Revolution refusing  in 1917, 1968 own rotting.

[Valsuelm]