No Roleplay? :-(

[Dykeras]

Just bought the game as I was a huge fan of BG1+2 and hoped this was more of the same...

 

Sadly, I had the crazy idea to play a damage-dealing Holy Paladin, someone to smite evil and protect the innocent  , but after checking various and numerous forums/websites it seems the Pally is next to useless unless used as a tank   And if I do have the audacity to play a '2 handed damage dealer' instead of dual weapons, then i'll be a huge detriment to my party, which sort of blows my role playing ideas out of the water   .

 

Next Roleplay idea was a mercenary Barbarian 'Loosely based on Slaine/Conan welding 2 axes, but then found out that axes are not very good and as a Barbarian I should use a 2 hander or my abilities will be far less affective. ... thus limiting my roleplay choices

 

So, the only viable ' Not becoming a detriment to your party'  player builds are Cypher, Mage or possibly Thief?   seems strange after so many patches with so limited a choice of builds/classes seems a bit of a waste.

 

 

 

 

[the_dog_days]

In terms of taking damage, Paladins are the best pure tanks in the game. The problem is that the devs basically removed pure tank builds. Also, I love playing as a rogue but they are not the best class for the PC; they are severely limited in combat situation as they are so squishy especially if you're planning to duel wield (as it sounds like you're planning).

[SkySlam]

Don't trust forum/websites for your builds, especially when you are playing for the first time! Not because they are wrong, but because the vast majority of those builds are optimized for the Path of the Damned difficulty. Since you've just bougth the game, I suspect you are not going to start there!

 

I can grant you that you can play through Easy, Normal and even Hard difficulties without min-maxing or optimizing your build. There is no character that will be a detriment to your party, unless you build him useless on purpose, so play whatever you like!

I'm not an ace player by any means, but I had no problem completing the game with my favorite roleplay characters in normal or hard. Also, you have a whole team of 5 people behind you, ready to fix your weaknesses!

[evilcat]

As long as You are not going for PotD or something just play what you think is fun for You.

Some guides may be outdated. 

Generally if you play on normal the less guides the more fun. Playing game without knowledge of best builds ® is like watching firefly for the first time.

[why]

I dissgree with the initial premise. Don't get me wrong. You bought the game, and complaining can be fun. The problem I have with your initial premise is that because some classes don't allow for your particular vision, Pillars has less role playing than Baldur's gate. BG had limitations to what each class could do also. If anything, I would say Pillars has more flexibility. It might not be set up ideally for your vision, but that's not lack of roleplay. It's merely different ideas about what each class should do.

[Fenixp]

Not only can you really play just about anything on normal, Obsidian also constantly patches the game and changes balance, so just about any balance advice you can find online older than a couple of months is probably outdated and useless.

[FlintlockJazz]

Um, next to useless as a tank?  The paladin?  Can you post some links to where these claims are, because they totally untrue, and I could do with a good laugh.

[Eisenheinrich]

Love this thread! Last time I visited BG II, I wanted to play a heavy armoured battle-mage. Guess how that turned out. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Eisenheinrich

[PrimeJunta]

Just bought the game as I was a huge fan of BG1+2 and hoped this was more of the same...

It is. Or not, depending on how you played BG1+2 and what you consider central to the experience.

 

Sadly, I had the crazy idea to play a damage-dealing Holy Paladin, someone to smite evil and protect the innocent  , but after checking various and numerous forums/websites it seems the Pally is next to useless unless used as a tank 

That's... not true.

 

You can build great tanky paladins, 'tis true. But you can also build paladins lots of other ways. It sounds to me that you'd enjoy a Flames of Devotion-based build a lot. It'll do massive, massive point damage and be an excellent support character as well (although not so good at tanking).

 

And if I do have the audacity to play a '2 handed damage dealer' instead of dual weapons, then i'll be a huge detriment to my party, which sort of blows my role playing ideas out of the water   .

Funny, in one of my recent playthroughs the paladin in my party was wielding a two-hander named Tidefall, and it worked out great.

 

Next Roleplay idea was a mercenary Barbarian 'Loosely based on Slaine/Conan welding 2 axes, but then found out that axes are not very good and as a Barbarian I should use a 2 hander or my abilities will be far less affective. ... thus limiting my roleplay choices

Nope, dual-wielding paladins work quite well too. I've never built a character around axes but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of good ones out there. I have built dual-wielders around sabres, and they definitely work.

 

So, the only viable ' Not becoming a detriment to your party'  player builds are Cypher, Mage or possibly Thief?   seems strange after so many patches with so limited a choice of builds/classes seems a bit of a waste.

Not so at all. I really like paladins specifically because you can build them so many ways and have them still be viable. Paladins can excel at three things: tanking, support, and alpha-strike with Flames of Devotion, and can be competent, steady front-line damage-dealers in addition to that. Some of the support abilities are specifically geared around the front-line role (Coordinated Attacks for example), which means they'll not only do awesome spike damage and respectable constant damage, they'll enhance the entire party while they're at it.

 

I love paladins. I often make room for not one, but two.

[Ink Blot]

Um, next to useless as a tank?  The paladin?  Can you post some links to where these claims are, because they totally untrue, and I could do with a good laugh.

You misread. He said 'next to useless unless used as a tank'.

[MunoValente]

 

but after checking various and numerous forums/websites it seems the Pally is next to useless unless used as a tank 

 

Next Roleplay idea was a mercenary Barbarian 'Loosely based on Slaine/Conan welding 2 axes, but then found out that axes are not very good and as a Barbarian I should use a 2 hander or my abilities will be far less affective

 

Sounds like everything you read was massive, overblown exaggerations.  These might not be the most optimal, efficient things that you could do, but they plenty viable.  

[Boeroer]

Barbarian, two axes, here we go:

 

Right hand: Woodewys axe

Left hand: We Toki

 

Maximum PER, lots of DEX, lots of INT, MIG doesn't matter that much.

 

Go to a mob of enemies after your tanky guys engaged and start hitting with Wodewys - because of carnage Nature's Mark will trigger in an AoE very soon, lowering defenses of the mob by 10 - We Toki will start to crit via carnage also - everybody wants to lie flat on the face. Great setup. Edge of Reason with it's draining is also great. Draining via carnage lets you regain endurance like a boss. Who said that battle axes are bad? That must have been somebody who knows nothing.

 

Was his name John Snow?

[Garm]

If we are looking for build flexibility BG1 and 2 are much more restrictive.

 

I think it just boils down to the fact that the PoE system is new to you.  I'm sure that after a few more hours around the game you will be able to create those builds you mention.

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah.

 

With Pillars, if you hear someone say "Class C is unusable except in role R" or "You can't make a <role> <class>," read it as "I haven't found a way to use class C in role R" or "I haven't found a way to make a <role> <class>."

 

That's different.

 

(Okay, maybe there are a few things that don't work, or don't make sense -- a ranged barbarian for example, because the barb's awesome ability is Carnage and that only triggers in melee. But there are far more things that do.)

[Tigranes]

Both of your initial ideas will be just fine, especially for non-POTD runs, so you should go ahead and do them. You just may not be quite as effective as the most optimised builds, but if roleplay is what you care about, who cares if some other dude out there in the universe is dealing more damage per second? 

[KDubya]

On PotD you can make paladin's that will be durable and lead the team in damage output. As Boeroer showed you can make a dual wielding axe barbarian that will be effective. You can do both of these while using the story companions who are not min maxed.

 

The key is to learn the mechanics of the game, have your team synergize such that the whole is greater than the parts and if in doubt favor survivability and durability over glass cannons.

 

At the end of the day PoE is a role playing fantasy game, build the character that appeals to you and have fun.

[Boeroer]

^ Superexactly! 

 

I also found it's more important to have fun while playing (a not to messed up build helps of course) than being superpowerful. Even on PotD you will encounter fights which are too easy. Then the fun drops. So OP build = more fun doesn't work. Especially if your OP build needs more micromanagement than you can bear. It can be as Op as you like: if things get tedious it's just not worth it.

 

One example: combine Quick Switch and the Coil of Resourcefulness. Now equip two arquebuses. Fire, switch, fire switch... there's no reload animation - it starts and then gets skipped if you switch right after the shot before the recovery bar appears. If you use a rogue this setup is super OP. You can also do that with two melee sets that deal different effects - like White Spire and Hours of St. Rumbalt. If you switch after each swing there will be no recovery bar. You can just pump MIG and dump DEX, put on plate - all without penalties. It's superduper OP - but at the same time so annoying that I would not do it for more than 5 minutes. Maybe it's a nice option for soloing though.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Um, next to useless as a tank?  The paladin?  Can you post some links to where these claims are, because they totally untrue, and I could do with a good laugh.

You misread. He said 'next to useless unless used as a tank'.

 

So he did, obviously my brain is missing out words now, maybe it's time I laid off the snorting of game discs like cocaine.  Obviously what I thought he had written was weird so I re-read it again and still mis-read it.  And I used to be good at reading in my youth...

[Osvir]

I had the crazy idea to play a damage-dealing Holy Paladin, someone to smite evil and protect the innocent  , but after checking various and numerous forums/websites it seems the Pally is next to useless unless used as a tank   And if I do have the audacity to play a '2 handed damage dealer' instead of dual weapons, then i'll be a huge detriment to my party, which sort of blows my role playing ideas out of the water   .

Dual-Wielding Paladin, Flames of Devotion. Be sure to have a tank that can take the bulk of the damage head on, and have your Paladin attack from the side/engage after the tank.

 

I'm trying it out right now, a DPS Paladin (I've just got to Gilded Vale so it's not much to go on but, my Paladin has 14 defeated out of 24 enemies slain, only took out one of them solo in Valewood, has most damage done, highest single damage etc.). But like I said, it's way too little info to go on (Can only compare with Heodan and Calisca), and I need to recruit some more companions to get some real data.

 

My Paladin is a Darcozzi Paladini, Fire Godlike. 

 

I'm aiming for these Class abilities:

- Zealous Focus

- Sworn Enemy

- Deprive the Unworthy 

- Coordinated Attacks 

- Sacred Immolation

 

Might add in Righteous Soul and Inspiring Triumph depending on what I feel like later.

 

And these Class talents:

- Intense Flames

- Fires of Darcozzi Palace

 

These general talents for more stereotypical Paladin look/feel...:

- Weapon Style Knight/Soldier (Sword/War Hammer)

- Weapon and Shield Style (Or Two-Handed Weapon Style for Morningstar/Great Sword)

- Scion of Flame

 

... Or these if you want more of a damage build:

- Weapon Style [insert appealing style/weapon focus]

- Two Weapon Style (Dual-Wield)

- Scion of Flame

 

Attributes:

15 Might

13 Constitution

13 Dexterity

15 Perception (The White that Wends)

10 Intelligence

12 Resolve

 

I suspect it's going to get challenging later, but if you tactically control your characters during combat, you should get a strong damage dealer that can also take a couple of hits. Stay in 20%-30% Recovery Rate armor if you want more frequent attacks, or in 35%-50% if you want more tank. It's can be situational as well, one armor is good against blunt attacks (clubs, fists, hammers and maces) other armor are good against corrode, fire, freeze, pierce, slash and so on. Be sure to scout and check your opponents, and dress accordingly, before you engage

 

Next Roleplay idea was a mercenary Barbarian 'Loosely based on Slaine/Conan welding 2 axes, but then found out that axes are not very good and as a Barbarian I should use a 2 hander or my abilities will be far less affective. ... thus limiting my roleplay choices

I made a dual-wielding Barbarian, worked really well in combat, but my idea didn't quite work out in dialogue (Wanted to make him a "gentleman" Barbarian). He had the highest damage stats in the party (Most damage, by a lot, at the end of the game). I did play him as respectable as I could in dialogue though, with a bit of aggression added in here and there. Hearth Orlan Barbarian. I didn't use axes though, I picked up the latest best one-hander I found and equipped it (Loot or Store) so that probably makes a difference.

 

OP:

I think you should make the character you want to make on Normal, and play for a bit, gain a couple of levels and get some better gear, choose the dialogue options that fit best with the type of character you're making, and see where it goes. I'm sure your character will shape as you go along and get a better grasp on it as well. You won't find your character in the "How to build the best healer/dps/tank" communities.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Osvir

[evilcat]

While it is possible to play Paladin in a offensive way, this style is not very encouraged by abilities selection, since most of them are supportive.

The best offensive ability sacred immolation works just as good on tank, or reading scrolls.

FoD is not that powerful. And sworn enemy is /rest, so it is hard to count on it in every encounter.

 

There could be more offensive paladin abilities/talents for folks who enjoy "Eldricht Knight" playstyle. It is popular archetype so its worth.

Abilities like:

- Modal cover your blade with flame (or acid)

- When you slay enemy, they explode

- You gain the benefit of Coordinated Attacs for yourself as well.

- Finger of Death variacion of Deprive the Unworthy

- Make intense flames also grant +1 FoD use

 

In most classes it is better if there are like 2-3 set of abilities for different playstyles. With casters it is easier since there is always so many spells to choose from, but martial are more limited so far.

Edited January 20, 2016 by evilcat

[Boeroer]

More FoD uses (however achieved) would be so cool. I love my gunslinging paladins with Intense Flames, burning lash and Scion of Flame.

[Mechalibur]

How does PoE limit your gameplay choices more than the Baldur's Gate series? In BG2, I played a mage killer fighter which ended up being absolutely awful... late game he basically just waited around while my mages had to repeatedly dispel all the arbitrary physical immunity buffs that seemingly every enemy had. I've run three characters through PoE, 2 of them very unoptimized, and got through just fine without feeling useless.

[abaris]

The biggest mistake is to expect D&D rules where no D&D rules are involved.

 

Even if it doesn't seem so at first glance, you can create a useful character that totally goes against the grain of the particular class. I once played a sturdy mage, being equally handy with steel and spells. I have to say, it was the most fun character I ever played and I have to try it again sometime.

[DreamWayfarer]

The biggest mistake is to expect D&D rules where no D&D rules are involved.

 

Even if it doesn't seem so at first glance, you can create a useful character that totally goes against the grain of the particular class.

Right? Currently, I am playing with a support Barbarian on hard and loving it .

 

I generaly try to discover new builds by building a character normaly, but them switching the attributes in a way one of the stats favored by the class is too liw to play it normaly.

[why]

Even if it doesn't seem so at first glance, you can create a useful character that totally goes against the grain of the particular class. I once played a sturdy mage, being equally handy with steel and spells. I have to say, it was the most fun character I ever played and I have to try it again sometime.

Along these lines, if you like a certain style because it's got that cool factor you really want, then I just can't see that there's any shame in playing on a lower difficulty. Frankly, I haven't found that problem yet on Pillars, but I'm only at the end of my hard run, so I haven't tried PotD yet. I can say this, I made a lot of mistakes in my builds for my PC and the NPCs, but I still don't have any problems with any of the battles. The only one that required multiple attempts even was the adra dragon. ...Bitch!