Weak Companions

[crutchy]

Hi,

 

It seems to me looking at the attributes/skills etc. of the Companions, that some are not specced up as well as they might be. For example Eder seems as though he could have more Con and Might and less Dex and Int. Am I right in this or way off the mark? Are any of the Companions particular weak compared to building the same character from scratch?

 

many thanks

[DreamWayfarer]

Hi,

 

It seems to me looking at the attributes/skills etc. of the Companions, that some are not specced up as well as they might be. For example Eder seems as though he could have more Con and Might and less Dex and Int. Am I right in this or way off the mark? Are any of the Companions particular weak compared to building the same character from scratch?

 

many thanks

They will be weaker than characters you build yourself in terms of stat distribution, but if you plan on using a full party you shouldn't worry too much.

 

Heavy minmaxing is not really worth it on anything bellow PoTD, and even then your tatics matter more.

[AndreaColombo]

Indeed, Pillars of Eternity really is not a game where min-maxing is required to succeed. The game can be beaten at the highest difficulty setting using story companions or even soloing, and a full party of six min-maxed adventurers makes for a sharp decline in challenge as you approach higher levels at whatever difficulty setting.

 

Story companions have stats that generally reflect their personality traits and backstory, and they are not min-maxed. With that in mind, whether a specific companion could use more or less of a given attribute largely depends on your play style and the role they'll cover within your party. If you want Edér to be a DPS guy, then he could use less CON and more DEX for example. But really, Edér can be pretty good regardless

[PrimeJunta]

Hi,

 

It seems to me looking at the attributes/skills etc. of the Companions, that some are not specced up as well as they might be. For example Eder seems as though he could have more Con and Might and less Dex and Int. Am I right in this or way off the mark? Are any of the Companions particular weak compared to building the same character from scratch?

 

many thanks

Yes and no. The companion attributes are distributed in a kind of safe, average way that let you skew them in several different directions. So yes, they're sub-optimal for just about any build you'd want to try for him.

 

But no, in that he'd specifically need more MIG and CON and less DEX and INT. The specific attributes you want depend on what kind of fighter you want him to be. And the trade-off you'd like to make is by no means optimal for many or even most of them. (If anything, he already has too much Con for most builds for one thing.)

Edited January 11, 2016 by PrimeJunta

[evilcat]

Eder has not as bad stat split. Int is potencially useful for knockdowns, disciplined barrage, clear out, sunder or weapon trips/stuns. Dex is generally good for dps martial (hard to pump attack speed). And both have at 10/11 which is low enought.

 

Companions tend to have more balanced stats than minimaxed, since they are prepared for different builds, and do not support glasscanon builds (babysitting glasscanon is more advanced). Also cant require specific item - " I will just take +15 will hat, Resolve 3 it is"

 

Thing to complain: If recomended stats are misleading, or does not fit current version of the game. Or if companion stats are copletly different from what class have recommended.

 

For example Devil of Caroc have very high Resolve, which may have some merit for riposte build but does not match advised stats. So either Devil or Rogue recommended stat should be changed.

[PrimeJunta]

I wouldn't object to companions just having somewhat inflated stats, at the expense of minmaxing. Since any build you pick will only focus on a couple of the attributes and none of them would be at the cap, they wouldn't end up more powerful than the PC or hired minmaxed companions.

 

So f ex if you want a resolute rogue for story reasons -- and it does make sense for the DoC -- just distribute her stats like a regular rogue and give the extra Resolve as a bonus.

Edited January 11, 2016 by PrimeJunta

[Mocker22]

I still think the best thing would be to allow for companions stats to be respecced. If a player wanted to leave the stats alone so that the character fits with the particular design of the devs then that is fine, but those wishing to min-max the companions a bit have that option. There are only a couple companions that I see as totally off for what you would want. Lately I've been feeling like Pallegina has some of the worst stats. Her Might is so poor that I find it difficult to give her any sort of offensive abilities which makes keeping agro a bitch. Most companions will do ok though, especially if you play to their strengths.

[PrimeJunta]

I wouldn't object to full companion respec.

 

For one thing, I'd give Kana a better level 1 invocation than those paper skeletons.

[AndreaColombo]

...and I could go around with a full party of min-maxed bozos while still enjoying companion story elements.

[Torm51]

I still think the best thing would be to allow for companions stats to be respecced. If a player wanted to leave the stats alone so that the character fits with the particular design of the devs then that is fine, but those wishing to min-max the companions a bit have that option. There are only a couple companions that I see as totally off for what you would want. Lately I've been feeling like Pallegina has some of the worst stats. Her Might is so poor that I find it difficult to give her any sort of offensive abilities which makes keeping agro a bitch. Most companions will do ok though, especially if you play to their strengths.

That's cause Pallegina is set up to do what a Paladin does well (albeit not as effectively if you specced her.  That 1 one point in DEX is bad ill give you that). She has a high resolve and a good enough int and con to tank and support.  Turning her into a DPS role is not good because paladins are not dpsers they do not have the tools.  You can turn them into Alpha Strikers that are tanks yes or support tanks they do not have the tools for anything else.  This is their role.  You can hit hard with Flames of Devotion even with a 10 might.  I had a 12 Might paladin hit consistently with FoD for 90 plus since its 50% fire.  This was on PotD.  Add leashes/Sworn Enemy/high top end damage weapons like 2handers, Arquebus, Arbalest  and other abilities like debuffs and you will hit hard enough.  Turning a Paladin into a high Dex/high Might character to try and consistently dps isn't going to be effective as you will have to wear lighter armor making you fold like a stack of cards on the front line.  I am not saying it wont work I am saying a rogue, monk, fighter or Barb will do it much better.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Torm51

[Torm51]

I still think the best thing would be to allow for companions stats to be respecced. If a player wanted to leave the stats alone so that the character fits with the particular design of the devs then that is fine, but those wishing to min-max the companions a bit have that option. There are only a couple companions that I see as totally off for what you would want. Lately I've been feeling like Pallegina has some of the worst stats. Her Might is so poor that I find it difficult to give her any sort of offensive abilities which makes keeping agro a bitch. Most companions will do ok though, especially if you play to their strengths.

I would agree though why not have the option to companion spec.

[scottii]

 

I still think the best thing would be to allow for companions stats to be respecced. If a player wanted to leave the stats alone so that the character fits with the particular design of the devs then that is fine, but those wishing to min-max the companions a bit have that option. There are only a couple companions that I see as totally off for what you would want. Lately I've been feeling like Pallegina has some of the worst stats. Her Might is so poor that I find it difficult to give her any sort of offensive abilities which makes keeping agro a bitch. Most companions will do ok though, especially if you play to their strengths.

I would agree though why not have the option to companion spec.

 

that's why there is the option to hire hero's from the inn.  re-specing a character based hero does not fit their history.  eder for example, a former officer in the military, would not have low INT.

[evilcat]

Stat respec for companions is not that needed, however it would be welcome to pick abilities from level 1 for them.

For example Kana could abandon this sceletors, so he would stop summoning them with AI on.

[why]

You already have the ability to toggle talents and spells and non Stat choices, don't you?

[PrimeJunta]

Not for level 1. So Kana's stuck with those stupid skeletons and Pallegina with Flames even if you'd want to build her as pure support.

[why]

Not for level 1. So Kana's stuck with those stupid skeletons and Pallegina with Flames even if you'd want to build her as pure support.

 

Ah, I see that now.  I believed you, but I just reloaded an old save and poked around to verify.  Perfect example of why I should lurk and read while informed members post!

[Karkarov]

 

Not for level 1. So Kana's stuck with those stupid skeletons and Pallegina with Flames even if you'd want to build her as pure support.

 

Ah, I see that now.  I believed you, but I just reloaded an old save and poked around to verify.  Perfect example of why I should lurk and read while informed members post!

 

Don't be too nice to Junta or he will put on airs!!!

 

Personally I like how the game does this, if you want "pure" min max it is totally available to you VIA hiring people at the various inns.  The story companions should have some kind of trade off, they make up for less than perfect stat spreads in tons of ways.  Some of them have unique features like Caroc, and they all include you know... story, bonus quests, and actual dialog.  Makes them well worth the trade in my opinion.

[the_dog_days]

 

 

 

 

Not for level 1. So Kana's stuck with those stupid skeletons and Pallegina with Flames even if you'd want to build her as pure support.

Ah, I see that now. I believed you, but I just reloaded an old save and poked around to verify. Perfect example of why I should lurk and read while informed members post!

Don't be too nice to Junta or he will put on airs!!!

 

Personally I like how the game does this, if you want "pure" min max it is totally available to you VIA hiring people at the various inns. The story companions should have some kind of trade off, they make up for less than perfect stat spreads in tons of ways. Some of them have unique features like Caroc, and they all include you know... story, bonus quests, and actual dialog. Makes them well worth the trade in my opinion.

I'm not on the total respec bandwagon (mostly for role-playing purposes), but I do think we should be able to change the first ability. It sucks that Eder is stuck with Defender when nobody in their right mind would use it. You have Defender, a no longer viable ability, staring you in the face the whole game as if to taunt you with that wasted level. In a game with a level cap of 20 or higher, I wouldn’t mind, but that's not POE (nor should it be).

[evilcat]

 

 

Not for level 1. So Kana's stuck with those stupid skeletons and Pallegina with Flames even if you'd want to build her as pure support.

 

Ah, I see that now.  I believed you, but I just reloaded an old save and poked around to verify.  Perfect example of why I should lurk and read while informed members post!

 

Don't be too nice to Junta or he will put on airs!!!

 

Personally I like how the game does this, if you want "pure" min max it is totally available to you VIA hiring people at the various inns.  The story companions should have some kind of trade off, they make up for less than perfect stat spreads in tons of ways.  Some of them have unique features like Caroc, and they all include you know... story, bonus quests, and actual dialog.  Makes them well worth the trade in my opinion.

 

Obection!

That is very weird tradeoff to have better story for cost of worse gameplay.

Such artificial difficulties are too close "to unlock this story you need to play with gamepad and spread some blood over keyboard".

 

Story companions should be more or less competent in what they do. And stat distribution should fallow suggested "recommended attributes", without minimaxing, and a bit more balanced (to suit various builds), but still useful for what class most often do.

 

The 1st level ability is in no way special for anyone, just a random ability. Kana without sceletors would still be Kana.

Edited January 14, 2016 by evilcat

[Karkarov]

The 1st level ability is in no way special for anyone, just a random ability. Kana without sceletors would still be Kana.

Fair enough, but people were talking about respeccing stats too.  Also what worse gameplay?  One level 1 skill and stats you can't change are not going to make or break the game.  I know, I have beaten the game with only story companions.  It isn't even super hard or anything.  You straight up do not have to min max in Eternity at all, you can, but even at the highest challenge level it is not anywhere near required.

[PrimeJunta]

I'm not at all bothered by the stats, actually, but the first-level talent does annoy me. Lately I've taken a lot to experimenting with various builds and party compositions, and I very much like having "story" companions as part of them. The whole point of that is making the builds like you want them. Having one ability that doesn't fit is by no means game-breaking, but it is significantly annoying. It's like a ding on a new car.

[HawkSoft]

I'm against re-specking the companions for role playing reasons with the one exception of removing Defender from Eder, it's not a L1 pick so you can get rid of it.

 

Defender can be effective but it requires a decent damage output which is hard to achieve with a low level fighter.

[Sannom]

Well you know what to do with PoE 2 Obsidian : characters don't start at level 1, they start at level 0, which is basically just the attributes and background. The first talents and abilities are chosen on level 1!

[Grossol the Grim]

I just found out about this game and I'm using the pre-made companions for the added dialogue, atmosphere, whatever you want to call it. As for re-speccing them, that wouldn't really bother me too much either way because, as others have pointed out, the attributes are more or less impotent. That last part kind of bugs me though. To me a big part of what makes an rpg an rpg is being able to customize as many aspects of your character as possible(stats/perks/trees/items/etc)  in meaningful ways that make them unique from others. If anyone who plays a fighter is more or less the same at the end of the day despite the choices they've made in character progression then is it really any more of an rpg than every other game out there. Just my two cents I guess.

[evilcat]

There seems to be console command for "remove talent" (and add talent, as well as change stats) which may help. However there could be easier way to do that (searching for console talent name not so easy).

 

As for why sceletors are so big deal:

- they are paperweight after level 5, so die before do anything

- they happen to block our real warriors

- phantom is simply better at higher levels, takes less space, last longer

- we can play Kana more as blaster chanter using worm bomb or paralyze, and take summons from Grey Sleeper.

- AI keeps summoning them even if we have other plans, Chanter have this limited resource

- because artificial limits are so DnD 3.0

 

Stats, as long as fighters have generally good Might/Dex and Casters good Int i can play with that.

 

If someone wants  roleplay value, and artistic vision of companion being special real being and stuff, better option would be give story companions unique bonus abilities after completicion of companion quests (just as watcher get). That would make them special, and somehow ofset their balanced builds, also it is a bonus, so no place for complains. For example Aloth could "call a friend" Eder show some "undying lights" Pellegina could shake that feathers and Durance start  "hammer time". You got the idea.

Edited January 15, 2016 by evilcat