Attacks in Paris

[Hurlshort]

I'll be the first to push for reform within Islam.  It's a leadership mess right now.  The face of Islam should be Malala, not Jihadi John.  Say what you will about Christianity, but they have benefited from a strong central leadership figure in the Pope, and it's been hundreds of years since there was a terrible one.  

 

I just don't see how an 'us versus them' mentality will help anything though.  That would seem to only fan the flames. 

[Zoraptor]

It's actually ironic that for all the fear about Caliphates when they did exist the areas they ruled were ruled far more moderately than now, and for most of their time far more moderate than christians were at the same times. Historically, Caliphs of the 'Ibrahim'/ al-Baghdadi type have been a rare aberration. It's also rather ironic that while islam had both temporal and spiritual power, unlike christianity, the largest sect largely lacks any actual power structures similar to Patriarchies or Popes within itself. At least with shia islam you have somewhat more of a hierarchy, with sunni islam when lacking a Caliph it's pretty much open season on interpretation and seniority with a very few exceptions.

 

So yeah, Islam could actually do with a Caliph or a 'Pope' so long as it were the right person, as it is it is far too easy for some nutbar to persuade others that their view is right, especially since so much of the Koran was written during what was a particularly vicious war and thus open to (il)liberal interpretation.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Meshugger]

 

This will probably be a bit disorganised, but meh.

 

When it comes to refugees there are two main facets- the refugees themselves, and the (European) response to them. The specific problem is not with the refugees themselves, unless you're as empathetic as a slab of concrete everyone can understand why a refugee would want to come to Europe and accept that the civil war in Syria is a legitimate reason to flee the country. The problem is the disorganisation of the response, leaving the problem with Syria's neighbours for so long, the sheer number of refugees and especially the number of non refugees tagging along. Most of that is on the truly horrible formal response and Germany's idiotic open invitation which encouraged people smugglers and generated potentially millions of fake Syrian IDs- money for which goes either to the people smugglers or those who have captured Syrian administrative equipment, like ISIS- while functionally penalising those who went through proper channels by staying in Jordan/ Lebanon/ Turkey. Ironically, Germany and Merkel have done more to damage the EU with their open invitation than anything else, even their vassalisation of Greece. She'll be largely free of the consequences because it is Germany, not Greece, but the seriousness of the problem is largely her fault, indisputably.

 

Having said that, it's doubtful that ISIS would have to resort to refugee infiltration, they have plenty of foreign nationals who can just go home, and especially they have plenty of support from disaffected locals, the people who go off to fight in Syria in the first place.

 

On blaming muslims, it is about as fair as blaming christianity for David Koresh or Jim Jones. There's some beliefs there in common, but it's at very best simplistic to blame the overall group. The big irony is that ISIS themselves wouldn't even regard most muslims as actually being muslim. Not just the shia/ alawi/ ibadi and such, but also those (theoretically) very close to them in the sunni branch, if they aren't radical enough and frankly nobody is radical enough except them and their salafi/ wahhabi ex-buddies in the Gulf (who'd still be supplying them on the quiet if 'Ibrahim' hadn't gone Caliph). That's why they bring in their ludicrous laws to enforce 'sharia', because even most muslims don't follow it to their liking. In any case, all blanket labelling of all muslims does is alienate moderates, which is largely the aim of such attacks. The ISIS narrative requires oppression to generate traction amongst those oppressed and to set the scene for radicalisation. If you're making idiotic 'kill/ deport all muslim' like statements then congrats, Jihadi John and al-Baghdadi would like to pat you on the back and thank you for giving the desired response, and to quote the great philosopher Mark Henry from his retirement speech "You're all a bunch of puppets".

 

As for what can be done to fix the problems, well, it's hard given political realities. (1) Accept that your 'friends' in the Gulf are 'friends' rather than friends (2) accept that the brand of salafi/ wahhabi thought liberally exported by KSA is anathema to western values and utterly toxic (3) rationalise the refugee process (4) stop asterisking around with regime change, you haven't got an asterisking clue what you're doing; plus see pt 1 (5) just deal with it; stop wringing your hands and wailing when people get killed by terrorism, stop jerking your knee and learn to live with it; people die every day, and in the west far more die from practically anything else than terrorism- if that's the price for freedom then be willing to pay it.

 

Practically (1&4) won't happen because there's too much money involved and politicians are morons with delusions of competency, and (5) won't because politicians are opportunists who want excuses to accumulate power and people get irrationally scared of boogeymen more than more realistic threats.

 

I have to say that I agree with all your first four points and cautiously agree with your final point, it's easy for me to say this but I was raised when the Provo's were conducting their campaigns, and so far they were indisputably more successful than any Jihadi has been in Britain, and yet the response was far less restrictive. Terrorism and atrocities will be carried out by extremists and the indoctrinated cowards and madman that they attract, this is just a facet of life, and most of us will not be affected by this at all, it is statistically an extremely unlkely occurence.

 

That is not to say that I do not condemn the attackers, commiserate with the dead and the grieving and want something done about this, I am sane and therefore I do. However what I do not want is unwarranted racism, governmental knee jerk reactions and the true enemy being swept aside in favour of easy answers. Of course our governments should do everything they can to protect us, but the answers on how to do that cannot be easily implemented, they require long term systemic change.

 

Firstly I agree, nation states should be left to their own devices, this may sound harsh but the alternative we have practised for the last few centuries of dabbling ignorantly has lead to far greater tragedies. Secondly immigration, there has been no infrastructure created for it, there has been no alterations made to society to accomodate massive influxes of foreigners and no consultation with the natives: This has not resulted in happy and harmonious communities of shining diversity and multiculturalism obviously, it has lead to ghettos and idle unemployable (often near illiterate) youth being all too easy prey for radicalisation.

 

These things must be tackled head on, and I do not expect that to be pretty or easy, but if we want a brighter future I personally think that is the only way, as it is these terrorists have a fertile breeding ground in the hearts of our homelands that we helped create.

 

 

The same thing will continue to happen until the elected politicians and the media get the balls to actually adress the problem. Namely who are the enemy? Who are their targets? What are their goals? What policies made this scenario possible? What are the short term goals of solving them and most importantly what is the long term goals? There's no answers from those in power, only crickets. Right now we have Merkel  (who should be sent packing in tar and feathers for what she has done), Hollande and the other Eurocrats selling weapons, financing unrest in the middle east and actively participating the carnage, all while importing the refugees from the very same areas and displacing their own constituents in their home countries, which has been going on for atleast 30-40 years. That policy has to change, but none dares or cares to bear any responsiblity. The real question is, is why we should listen to any supposed solution by those who created the problem in the first place?

 

The big elephant in the room is that middle eastern Islam is tolerable in smaller numbers at best and totally incompatible with any core western values at worst. Temporal refugees? sure. Women and their children fleeing war? Come right in. Sexual and religious minorities like Sufis, Sikhs and Zoroastrians? Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

 

Right now we have the same useful idiots in the media parroting "terrorism has no religion", "not all muslims" all while the politicians are talking about everything will be just ok if we bomb ISIS some more, which doesn't adress the problem for anyone, anywhere. **** each and every one of you idiots for continuing human misery on your good conscience. When your own leaders are talking about "dark forces" sweeping the nation, they are talking about their own people starting to lose trust and talking about rebelling. Well guess what? When you provide no solutions in a desperate situation, people will look elsewhere and you punish them for it. Is anyone seriously surprised that videos such as these are going viral with millions of views now? (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/11/watch-anti-migrant-video-going-viral-across-europe/)  

 

We'll see what the Vienna-talks will produce anything but the same old garbage in, garbage out until we will see Hitler 2.0 rising somewhere in Europe. Then things will get really, really bloody. This scenario can only be reversed by immidiately adressing the questions above with real solutions.

 

All people ever wanted was to be left alone and enjoy life as they see fit. Too much to ask apparently.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Meshugger

[Sakai]

Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

These are people are running away from exactly the thing those terrorists represent. If they were "Islamists", why would they run?

[Meshugger]

 

Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

These are people are running away from exactly the thing those terrorists represent. If they were "Islamists", why would they run?

 

 

No.

 

https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/665555110467084289

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

Besides,

 

 

 

The big elephant in the room is that middle eastern Islam is tolerable in smaller numbers at best and totally incompatible with any core western values at worst. Temporal refugees? sure. Women and their children fleeing war? Come right in. Sexual and religious minorities like Sufis, Sikhs and Zoroastrians? Come and live in peace until the dust settles in your homeland. But trying to integrate millions upon millions of middle eastern Islamists and have the audacity to claim that it is essential to the EU identity? **** you. 

 

Read again.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Meshugger

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Piers Morgan:

 

These murderers aren't refugees. Nor are they real Muslims. They're terrorists who've hijacked a religion for nefarious gain.

 

David Burge:

 

ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic theology from Islamic U of Baghdad. What are your credentials?

[BruceVC]

Piers Morgan:

 

These murderers aren't refugees. Nor are they real Muslims. They're terrorists who've hijacked a religion for nefarious gain.

 

David Burge:

 

ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic theology from Islamic U of Baghdad. What are your credentials?

Morgan has a point though...there are many people from the Muslim community who dont consider ISIS Muslim because of the atrocities they committed. I'm not sure why he feels he has to say that...I assume those of us who want to have this discussion in  a reasonable way  don't now assume 2 Billion Muslims  are like ISIS

 

WOD...I can understand why some of you Republicans or supporters of the NRA dont like Morgan. But he meant well...he was just trying to make the USA  a safer place...but you can't lecture Americans on issues like the Right to Bear  Arms if you aren't an actual citizen

 

He misunderstood this even though I supported what he was trying to achieve 

[Qistina]

 

Well, looks like you never visited Indonesia, Malaysia or Maldives. Visiting these countries, would tell you much more about how Islam really is, compared to Fox News...

 

The Maldives, where the level of persecution against the Christian minority is rated¹ "Extreme" - at rank #11 among all countries of the world, before Saudi Arabia?

 

As for Malaysia, it ranks "only" #37 on that watchlist, but my own visit there a few years ago gave me the impression of a repressive society where Islam is not just the majority religion of the population, but de-facto the state religion - being unapologetically and unfairly backed by government bureaucracy, law enforcement, and legal system.

Christian churches seemed to be tolerated as long as they sticked to themselves, but lived in fear of random police raids against their congregations for allegations like "subverting Islam" or "encouraging apostacy from Islam".

Atheist/agnostic groups consisting of ethnic Malays (rather than foreigners) did not seem to be present at all in the public sphere, though likely existed in secret. Foreigners seemed to have more leeway, but ethnic Malays from Muslim families seemed to have little choice but to officially stay "Muslim", because apostasy meant having to live with severe discrimination and acts of retaliation from any neighbors, employers, public servants, police officers, judges, etc. they'd come in contact with for the rest of their lives.

 

Some of the conversations with people there, even casual ones, left me with newfound appreciation for the level of religious freedom and freedom of speech that exists in the West.

Of course it's possible that the people I met and information I absorbed, was unrepresentative or I misinterpreted it etc., and of course my visit to the country lasted only three weeks.

But hey, you said we should base our opinion of the tolerance of Muslim societies on our own visits rather than Fox News, so here you go...

 

--------

1) By Open Doors, the most well-known NGO for cataloging global religious persecution of Christians. Themselves a Christian organization, but I consider it reliable.

 

 

We have laws, your country also have laws, what's the difference? You claim Christians live in fear under our rule, do Muslims live hapily in your place?

 

Christians in my country didn't look as terrorists hiding bombs in their bag...but i know in the west someone like me could be assaulted by the police just because "look lke a terrorist", people in your country will look at Muslims in eerie way...my country allow Christians, Hindus and whatever to freely practice their religion and laws, does your country allow Muslims doing the same?

 

The church that being raid is because they against the law, they publish their new Malay version of Bible to convert Muslims into Christianity. That's why they got raid by the police. Your country will do the same if any mosques in your country are against your country law isn't it?

 

Atheism is not acceptable in my country, all Malaysians must have religion, "Believe in God" is the first principle to become a Malaysian. There are 5 of them

 

WHEREAS OUR COUNTRY, MALAYSIA nurtures the ambitions of:

• achieving a more perfect unity amongst the whole of her society;
• preserving a democratic way of life;
• creating a just society where the prosperity of the country can be enjoyed together in a fair and equitable manner;
• guaranteeing a liberal approach towards her rich and varied cultural traditions; and
• building a progressive society that will make use of science and modern technology.

NOW THEREFORE, WE, the people of Malaysia, pledge to concentrate the whole of our energy and efforts to achieve these ambitions based on the following principles:

• BELIEF IN GOD
• LOYALTY TO KING AND COUNTRY
• SUPREMACY OF THE CONSTITUTION
• RULES OF LAW
• COURTESY AND MORALITY

 

 

This is our principle as Malaysians.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Qistina]

 

Was it Indonesia or Malaysia that banned christians from using the word Allah? Christianity came there after islam so that was just the word they used for "god", and the courts declared it illegal for christians to use the word as it was a muslim word.

 

 

 

Banned to translate the word God in Bible into Allah because it is wrong. In Malay language God is "Tuhan", not "Allah". in Arabic "Allah" is a name mistranslate by western as "God", while in Arabic God is "Ilah" not "Allah"

 

God is not a name, Allah is a name, the God of Bible named YHWH

 

So if Christians of Malaysia want to translate the word God into Malay it should be "Tuhan", not "Allah". We speak Malaysian language not Arabic anyway.

 

But some group of Christians have their own agenda insist on using the name, "Allah" as translation into Malaysian language Bible, they publish their own version of Bible, that's why their Bible got banned and their church got raid, to consfisticate those Bible they published

 

Even the Pope don't agree with what these Christians doing

 

But as usual your media will twist it to make Muslims look bad

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Qistina]

Regarding the attack on Paris, i actually exausted, i am tired of these kind of thing. Yes, i sent my regard and sympathy to those innocent victims and their families, but these whole thing is not simple. It is political, it is corrupt, it is business, it is bull**** by the world power, the elitists, the businessmen and the death merchants who gain profit by it.

 

Don't anyone realize that? Why everyone having a simplisitic mind, blame on Muslims, islam is bad religion, Islam is Terror...are human are all having tiny brain? Look at history, do you ever heard "Muslim Terrorist" back in the 50s? No? It is because that time the main villain are the Japanese and Germans, and then 70s who are the villains? The Vietnam and Russian. Now it is Muslims because those power hungry elitisist are busy with Middle Eastern affairs

 

I lost faith in humanity and human intellect....human today are sheeps and cows....

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[Malcador]

These are people are running away from exactly the thing those terrorists represent. If they were "Islamists", why would they run?

Well, could be because some other Islamists want them dead just due to differing flavours. I figure the worst we'll get will be fundamentalist types like Westboro, irritating and noisy but not too harmful.

 

Also - http://qz.com/550365/belgian-home-affairs-minister-says-isil-communicates-over-playstation-4/

 

Time to ban all consoles.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

 

 

Well, looks like you never visited Indonesia, Malaysia or Maldives. Visiting these countries, would tell you much more about how Islam really is, compared to Fox News...

 

The Maldives, where the level of persecution against the Christian minority is rated¹ "Extreme" - at rank #11 among all countries of the world, before Saudi Arabia?

 

As for Malaysia, it ranks "only" #37 on that watchlist, but my own visit there a few years ago gave me the impression of a repressive society where Islam is not just the majority religion of the population, but de-facto the state religion - being unapologetically and unfairly backed by government bureaucracy, law enforcement, and legal system.

Christian churches seemed to be tolerated as long as they sticked to themselves, but lived in fear of random police raids against their congregations for allegations like "subverting Islam" or "encouraging apostacy from Islam".

Atheist/agnostic groups consisting of ethnic Malays (rather than foreigners) did not seem to be present at all in the public sphere, though likely existed in secret. Foreigners seemed to have more leeway, but ethnic Malays from Muslim families seemed to have little choice but to officially stay "Muslim", because apostasy meant having to live with severe discrimination and acts of retaliation from any neighbors, employers, public servants, police officers, judges, etc. they'd come in contact with for the rest of their lives.

 

Some of the conversations with people there, even casual ones, left me with newfound appreciation for the level of religious freedom and freedom of speech that exists in the West.

Of course it's possible that the people I met and information I absorbed, was unrepresentative or I misinterpreted it etc., and of course my visit to the country lasted only three weeks.

But hey, you said we should base our opinion of the tolerance of Muslim societies on our own visits rather than Fox News, so here you go...

 

--------

1) By Open Doors, the most well-known NGO for cataloging global religious persecution of Christians. Themselves a Christian organization, but I consider it reliable.

 

 

We have laws, your country also have laws, what's the difference? You claim Christians live in fear under our rule, do Muslims live hapily in your place?

 

Christians in my country didn't look as terrorists hiding bombs in their bag...but i know in the west someone like me could be assaulted by the police just because "look lke a terrorist", people in your country will look at Muslims in eerie way...my country allow Christians, Hindus and whatever to freely practice their religion and laws, does your country allow Muslims doing the same?

 

The church that being raid is because they against the law, they publish their new Malay version of Bible to convert Muslims into Christianity. That's why they got raid by the police. Your country will do the same if any mosques in your country are against your country law isn't it?

 

Atheism is not acceptable in my country, all Malaysians must have religion, "Believe in God" is the first principle to become a Malaysian. There are 5 of them

 

WHEREAS OUR COUNTRY, MALAYSIA nurtures the ambitions of:

• achieving a more perfect unity amongst the whole of her society;
• preserving a democratic way of life;
• creating a just society where the prosperity of the country can be enjoyed together in a fair and equitable manner;
• guaranteeing a liberal approach towards her rich and varied cultural traditions; and
• building a progressive society that will make use of science and modern technology.

NOW THEREFORE, WE, the people of Malaysia, pledge to concentrate the whole of our energy and efforts to achieve these ambitions based on the following principles:

• BELIEF IN GOD
• LOYALTY TO KING AND COUNTRY
• SUPREMACY OF THE CONSTITUTION
• RULES OF LAW
• COURTESY AND MORALITY

 

 

This is our principle as Malaysians.

 

I would consider Malaysia a good example of a Muslim country that is perfectly functional.....didn't you have issues with presidential corruption?

 

Now please understand I don't mean to criticize your constitution but it seems strange to insist that people must say they are religious ? What if you not, why would that mean you cant contribute meaningfully towards Malaysian society so what I'm asking is how is being religious something that benefits your economy or political stability

 

Also you say that  Science is important but what when Science and Religion clash , who wins ?

[HoonDing]

"The church that being raid is because they against the law, they publish their new Malay version of Bible to convert Muslims into Christianity. That's why they got raid by the police. Your country will do the same if any mosques in your country are against your country law isn't it?"

 

lol

[BruceVC]

"The church that being raid is because they against the law, they publish their new Malay version of Bible to convert Muslims into Christianity. That's why they got raid by the police. Your country will do the same if any mosques in your country are against your country law isn't it?"

 

lol

Look to be fair you can't judge these types of perceived  strange or unreasonable decisions by countries like Malaysia  ...I understand they seem strange but these are countries are ruled by religious doctrine and modern laws

 

Its fine, we don't have to understand or agree with them but its there decision. As long as they don't export terrorism or have tens of thousands of immigrants wanting to get to Europe its not a big deal 

[Rostere]

Hezbollah officially condemns the attack. Hezbollah.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hezbollah-chief-lebanon-denounces-paris-attacks-184742949.html

 

Which shouldn't be surprising considering both ISIIS and Hezbollah hate each other more than they hate the Crusaders.

 

I fail to see how this is surprising at all. Pretty much everyone around the world is condemning the attack. Hezbollah is in government together with Lebanese Christian parties, Lebanon has good relations with France... They are probably as disgusted as everyone else, and with literally no reason to not condemn the attack.

[Oerwinde]

I assume people blame islam because central america is full of poor, little educated, deeply faithful christians who have been screwed by the US for decades, but you don't see Costa Rican catholics flying planes into buildings or blowing themselves up to kill civilians in other countries.

[Gromnir]

 

 

But as usual your media will twist it to make Muslims look bad

 

evangelism is NOT illegal in the US.  hare krishnas or muslims or branch davidians can attempt to convert god fearing christians in virtual any public setting.  heck, NOT getting accosted by religious evangelists at state fairs is rare nowadays.

 

btw, muslims in malaysia does an excellent job o' making muslims look bad w/o media portrayals... which is largely non-existent.  am suspecting that many folks in the west is hardly aware that malaysia and indonesia is muslim and that denial of religious and personal freedoms is the norm in those nations.  freedom o' speech is limited as you already recognized but failed to realize.  and can you imagine the media p00p storm  if apostasy laws were put into effect in ANY western nation? 

 

the terrible reality is that malaysia is presented as some kinda model o' islamic moderation.  hogwash. if christian fundamentalists took control o' a western nation and the State denied basic freedoms to a religious minority because o' their religion, there would be JUSTIFIED howls o' anguish and rage in from every other western nation.  

 

is there bigotry directed at muslims in western nations?  sure there is, but for the most part, so bigotry is personal rather than systemic.  

 

the bigotry directed at muslims in the US is misguided.  unfortunately, the bigotry american muslims suffer is largely due to fear and misunderstanding.  

 

"in a 2013 Pew Global Attitudes Survey, it was noted that “in Malaysia . . . roughly a quarter of Muslims (27 percent) take the view that attacks on civilians are sometimes or often justified.” However, if we add to this number the 12 percent who take the view that violence is “rarely justified” in defense of Islam (as opposed to never justified), essentially 39 percent of the Malaysian Muslims surveyed believed that violence can be justified against enemies of Islam."

 

american muslims is almost universal patriotic and loyal americans.  is terrible that so many is treated unfairly by their fellow american citizens.  on the other hand, perhaps americans should be more concerned 'bout malay muslims, particularly given the relative high numbers o' malay nationals who support isis and who has joined isis.  

 

oh, and while a homosexual muslim in the US might have to be afraid o' rednecks, the malay muslim need be afraid o' arrest by police... and worse. is more than a few situations in which muslims is treated far better in the west than in a majority o' the islamic world.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 15, 2015 by Gromnir

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Hezbollah officially condemns the attack. Hezbollah.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hezbollah-chief-lebanon-denounces-paris-attacks-184742949.html

 

Which shouldn't be surprising considering both ISIIS and Hezbollah hate each other more than they hate the Crusaders.

 

I fail to see how this is surprising at all. Pretty much everyone around the world is condemning the attack. Hezbollah is in government together with Lebanese Christian parties, Lebanon has good relations with France... They are probably as disgusted as everyone else, and with literally no reason to not condemn the attack.

 

Hezballah disgusted by terrorism, that's a good one.

[Gromnir]

 

 

Hezbollah officially condemns the attack. Hezbollah.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hezbollah-chief-lebanon-denounces-paris-attacks-184742949.html

 

Which shouldn't be surprising considering both ISIIS and Hezbollah hate each other more than they hate the Crusaders.

 

I fail to see how this is surprising at all. Pretty much everyone around the world is condemning the attack. Hezbollah is in government together with Lebanese Christian parties, Lebanon has good relations with France... They are probably as disgusted as everyone else, and with literally no reason to not condemn the attack.

 

Hezballah disgusted by terrorism, that's a good one.

 

well, it's easy to see why hezbollah would be disgusted by terrorists who recently targeted hezbollah in southern lebanon.  in fact, pretty much any attack on a terrorist group is decried as state-sponsored terrorism perpetrated by ________________.  fill in blank with great britain (particularly if we are speaking o' the ira as victims) or israel or the USA or your choice o' state. 

 

terrorism is often presented as a matter o' perspective. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

Some of you are big Snowden admirers : http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-show-u-s--surveillance-of-islamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html# We should also thank Apple and Google for not cooperating with the government any more.

[Mamoulian War]

I assume people blame islam because central america is full of poor, little educated, deeply faithful christians who have been screwed by the US for decades, but you don't see Costa Rican catholics flying planes into buildings or blowing themselves up to kill civilians in other countries.

Well because they are probably to busy to smuggle cocaine to your country.

 

/sarcasm off

 

Judging all people because of actions of the few is pretty much what makes people like al-Bagdadi happy about the "work" which they do...

[Mamoulian War]

Some of you are big Snowden admirers : http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-show-u-s--surveillance-of-islamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html# We should also thank Apple and Google for not cooperating with the government any more.

Oh yeah, let's turn the whole west into the incarnation of 1984. I think Jefferson would be proud now...

[Qistina]

My country have holidays for ALL religions...Eid, Chrismas, Wesak, Deepavali, ect you name it...Malaysia have a lot of holidays

 

Do western countries have holidays for Muslims?

[Gromnir]

My country have holidays for ALL religions...Eid, Chrismas, Wesak, Deepavali, ect you name it...Malaysia have a lot of holidays

 

Do western countries have holidays for Muslims?

in Gromnir's country (well, we sorta have dual citizenship) a christian can convert to islam and celebrate any religious holiday they wish to without fear o' being accused and convicted of apostasy.

 

am thinking we win.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Qistina]

 

 

I would consider Malaysia a good example of a Muslim country that is perfectly functional.....didn't you have issues with presidential corruption?

 

Now please understand I don't mean to criticize your constitution but it seems strange to insist that people must say they are religious ? What if you not, why would that mean you cant contribute meaningfully towards Malaysian society so what I'm asking is how is being religious something that benefits your economy or political stability

 

Also you say that  Science is important but what when Science and Religion clash , who wins ?

 

 

We don't have president, but we follow British style of democracy, parliament with royals at the head. Which countries don't have corrupt politicians?

 

You must have a religion to become Malaysian. It doesn't matter what religion, but you must believe in God. It is because when you say you belong to a religion you are bound to that religion morality, culture and way of life, which means you are not deuchbags, yes atheists are deuchbags. If you are Christian, i know you are bound to Christian morality, so it is easier to make business with, i mean i know where you stand. You don't have to be religious, but if there are problems with you we simply refer you to your priests and asking their opinions.

 

If you are an atheist it will be a problem. Malaysia a multicultural country, Malays are only 50% now and Muslims 60%.

 

I love Science vs religion debate, but now i just don't have the mood.