The current refugee wave in Europe

[Drowsy Emperor]

LOOOOOOOOOOL

 

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/video-imported-war-migrant-turks-and-kurds-battle-on-frankfurt-streets-german-army-called-in/

 

If only Bismarck could see this

 

I wonder who is running Germany these days

Edited September 11, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Varana]

I'm letting the first paragraph pass, as I don't even know where to begin.

 

As for the support of the Syrian opposition: Sure, they had support, at some time. As I said, the Gulf monarchies (esp. Saudi Arabia and Qatar) were quite active in Syria once the rebellion was in full swing. Turkey as well. And there were parts of the regular Syrian army who changed sides. Western support was quite small. (And Israel kept rather quiet the whole time. "Supported by Israel" is, after all, a label you want to avoid on your Arab movement.)

 

Edit: Yes, LOOOL at that article.

That headline is pure misleading propaganda - no, the German army was not "called in", and certainly not because of the clash in Frankfurt. As the article itself states later on, some soldiers were put in standby to "set up a refugee camp, to help with organization, provide buses and drivers, other types of transport, medical services and equipment, anything of that kind". It has nothing to do with these demonstrations.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Varana

[Drowsy Emperor]

A bit of drama. Nevertheless, asians are rioting on the streets of Frankfurt, waving Turkish flags like its Ankara and despoiling a beautiful city with their exported grievances while the country is taking in more of these same people as if they can handle the ones they've already got. Sensationalism aside, the truth in itself is terrible enough.

[licketysplit]

Is this news footage a joke? Front National being literal neo-nazis? I can't tell anymoe...

 

 

Germany will accept them because they need to fill low wage, unstable jobs. So gracious. 

[Volourn]

Extremist Islam: We destroyed the ME, Europe NEXT! Than China and Japan after that then we'll get them  South and North Amerikans after that!!

 

Seriously, you 'flee' your homeland cause it is being run by pieces of crap absuing the worst aspects of your beloved religion yet now you want to turn your new home into the very thing that you fled.

 

\That's scrwwd up. Aassmilate (within reason of course) do not destroy.

[Zoraptor]

Syrians are mostly arab, there's just a lot of difference between different types of arab since there weren't wholesale population replacements during the arab conquests. So a magrebi arab may actually be a berber, a misr arab looks a lot like an ancient egyptian and a suryah arab looks a lot like an ancient syrian. Much the same way that everyone calls english an ethnicity when it's almost entirely the same as basic celtic stock and near indistinguishable from the welsh.

 

As for whether the west destabilised Syria, there is no doubt they did after their 'success' in Libya and expected things to go much the same way. But the primary movers were the Gulf States and Turkey who have done most of the training and arming of the rebels, and allowed the extranationals that the rebels now rely on to move into Syria. Initially there were a lot of 'moderates'- sadly, naive idealistic fools is more accurate; as if you can just wave a wand and everything can be fine, the only people who believe that are 5 year olds and western strategic planners people who believe western PR- in Syria who bought into the rebellion-> victory-> ... -> democracy, wealth and freedom for all! narrative, but they're long gone. There isn't a secular or moderate faction in the rebel top ten and their biggest groups are all radical sunnis like Al Qaeda Nusra, ISIS, Jaish al Islam, Jaish al Fatah, Ahrar al Sham etc. The only moderation they have is in comparison to ISIS. Frankly, western 'support' for the rebels at this point is a fig leaf to their gulf allies and a complete inability to either face reality or accept the embarrassment of admitting that Putin was right or that they didn't have a clue what they were doing (again. And really, that's the crux, they just do not learn anything from their mistakes because they never admit them and try to pretend that everything is fine so as not to get punished electorally). End of the day it has to be admitted that if Assad is the answer the question is "who is the least worst option?" but there has at least been a notable shift on the edges towards accepting that reality instead of head burying- it will just take time for the centres to accept that.

 

Though of course it has led to some darkly hilarious incidents like Israel acting as Al Qaeda's air force around Qunetra (lol, Syria is responsible for all firing from Syrian territory; starngely whenever Al Nusra get pushed back some rockets coincidentally hit Israel), 'Ibrahim' giving the Saudis conniptions for having the temerity to call himself Caliph and the spectacular 'red line' back down (albeit the only sensible action) after a Kerry off-the-cuff got picked up by Lavrov and run with.
 

Fine for whom? A basic lack of religious tolerance is endemic to most Islamic states. Prosecution of Christians and other minorities are a daily thing, even today - and reaches absurd levels, like that girl that go 0's on every exam in Egypt the other day just because she's a christian. The orthodox patriarchate in Istanbul in "tolerant" Turkey is built like a fortress, walls and fences galore.

Even today? Syria has been ruled by muslims for 1300 years, Iraq for the same and up until recently they had more religious minorities than any western country, certainly including Serbia. Point is, it is the 'today' part that has changed, not the historical part. The good news about that is if it has changed one way it can change back. But, the today part has changed largely due to KSA sitting on a huge ocean of oil and having a backwards interpretation of islam which they are utterly evangelical- or pathological- about infecting every muslim country with. It doesn't help that due to their top down power structures most muslim countries can be infected easily by bribing those in charge and claiming to be helping the poor and downtrodden, eg Pakistan. Truth is, their brand of islam doesn't give a flying asterisk about anything that isn't their brand of islam, hence why they're perfectly happy to destroy sufi muslim tombs and the like in Timbuktu as well as the Temple of Bel. Which lasted twice as long under muslim rule as under pagan and christian rule combined, mind you.
 
And I see that having complained about them vandalising Mecca part of the Grand Mosque has collapsed.

[Volourn]

Not checked for accuracy (like most  news sources lol but food for thought...) : https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/family-of-drowned-toddler-aylan-kurdi-had-been-given-free-housing-in-turkey-while-fathers-story-is-full-of-holes/

[Drowsy Emperor]

Syrians are mostly arab, there's just a lot of difference between different types of arab since there weren't wholesale population replacements during the arab conquests. So a magrebi arab may actually be a berber, a misr arab looks a lot like an ancient egyptian and a suryah arab looks a lot like an ancient syrian. Much the same way that everyone calls english an ethnicity when it's almost entirely the same as basic celtic stock and near indistinguishable from the welsh.

 

As for whether the west destabilised Syria, there is no doubt they did after their 'success' in Libya and expected things to go much the same way. But the primary movers were the Gulf States and Turkey who have done most of the training and arming of the rebels, and allowed the extranationals that the rebels now rely on to move into Syria. Initially there were a lot of 'moderates'- sadly, naive idealistic fools is more accurate; as if you can just wave a wand and everything can be fine, the only people who believe that are 5 year olds and western strategic planners people who believe western PR- in Syria who bought into the rebellion-> victory-> ... -> democracy, wealth and freedom for all! narrative, but they're long gone. There isn't a secular or moderate faction in the rebel top ten and their biggest groups are all radical sunnis like Al Qaeda Nusra, ISIS, Jaish al Islam, Jaish al Fatah, Ahrar al Sham etc. The only moderation they have is in comparison to ISIS. Frankly, western 'support' for the rebels at this point is a fig leaf to their gulf allies and a complete inability to either face reality or accept the embarrassment of admitting that Putin was right or that they didn't have a clue what they were doing (again. And really, that's the crux, they just do not learn anything from their mistakes because they never admit them and try to pretend that everything is fine so as not to get punished electorally). End of the day it has to be admitted that if Assad is the answer the question is "who is the least worst option?" but there has at least been a notable shift on the edges towards accepting that reality instead of head burying- it will just take time for the centres to accept that.

 

Though of course it has led to some darkly hilarious incidents like Israel acting as Al Qaeda's air force around Qunetra (lol, Syria is responsible for all firing from Syrian territory; starngely whenever Al Nusra get pushed back some rockets coincidentally hit Israel), 'Ibrahim' giving the Saudis conniptions for having the temerity to call himself Caliph and the spectacular 'red line' back down (albeit the only sensible action) after a Kerry off-the-cuff got picked up by Lavrov and run with.

 

Fine for whom? A basic lack of religious tolerance is endemic to most Islamic states. Prosecution of Christians and other minorities are a daily thing, even today - and reaches absurd levels, like that girl that go 0's on every exam in Egypt the other day just because she's a christian. The orthodox patriarchate in Istanbul in "tolerant" Turkey is built like a fortress, walls and fences galore.

Even today? Syria has been ruled by muslims for 1300 years, Iraq for the same and up until recently they had more religious minorities than any western country, certainly including Serbia. Point is, it is the 'today' part that has changed, not the historical part. The good news about that is if it has changed one way it can change back. But, the today part has changed largely due to KSA sitting on a huge ocean of oil and having a backwards interpretation of islam which they are utterly evangelical- or pathological- about infecting every muslim country with. It doesn't help that due to their top down power structures most muslim countries can be infected easily by bribing those in charge and claiming to be helping the poor and downtrodden, eg Pakistan. Truth is, their brand of islam doesn't give a flying asterisk about anything that isn't their brand of islam, hence why they're perfectly happy to destroy sufi muslim tombs and the like in Timbuktu as well as the Temple of Bel. Which lasted twice as long under muslim rule as under pagan and christian rule combined, mind you.

 

And I see that having complained about them vandalising Mecca part of the Grand Mosque has collapsed.

 

There is no denying that things have progressively gotten worse and that SA is at the center of it all, although Egypt, Turkey or Iran would probably all vie for the same position given the chance. 

 

But the outlook for the House of Saud going on the dung heap of history where they belong is slim for as long as the US is propping them up.

 

As for the west "failing", I don't see that the US interests have been severely hampered. For all the media blather, the Syrian situation is not really affecting the US. It keeps the regional powers occupied and wasting resources, the ME unstable, weakens the EU. They may not have gotten a marionette in Syria, but they didn't lose anything - and comparatively speaking, others lost more and still have a problem they have to deal with.

I think the US planners know this well, which is why all the anti ISIS bombing runs are just a token show of support, without any real involvement. As for the European governments, ever since they let themselves get into an economic war with Russia over Ukraine no less, tells you as much as you need to know about who is calling the shots. I prefer to think that they're not deciding anything as the alternative is too embarrassing.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Lychnidos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn-UCR5p0y0

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'd love to see the shipping details of that container. Up until now I wasn't really considering that the migrants would be used for armed insurrection at this point, but reality always seems to be worse than expected. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Wrath of Dagon]

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/09/11/wrm-in-the-wsj-the-migration-crisis-and-europes-crippling-doubts/

[Varana]

The original article (here) actually is really good.

[Elerond]

The original article (here) actually is really good.

 

That is quite supremacist article, which quite well reflects current change in political climate. In my opinion article is half assed and even dangerously bad failure of journalism. But everybody is for their own.

[Meshugger]

Soooo....Germany just closed the border along with Austria. All while the EU now has sanctioned a military operation to track down the smuggler boats in Turkey.

 

What's going on here? Are they literally idiots and did not anticipate this to happen or are we being had as we speak?

[Darkpriest]

Germany did not close border, but reintroduced border control, with the main focus on their border with Austria (other borders get controls too, like the one with Poland and Czech).

 

TBH it was obvious that sooner or later it will happen, it is just too funny that it was less than a week after the declaration that Germany can take any amount of war refugees...

[Varana]

The border is not closed. Refugees at the German-Austrian border are not being sent back, they're being registered and sent to temporary accommodations, as usual. The main goal is to prevent this happening as chaotically as like last week in Munich where thousands of people just arrived without anyone knowing who they were, why they came, or who profited from trafficking.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Varana

[Meshugger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

[Woldan]

I have a friend I make I frequently business with who lives right at the Hungarian border, endless streams of refugees literally walk past his house. 

He has been talking with a local middle east translator he knows and according to him not even 1/3 of the refugees speak Arabic, most of them cannot even write.

 

Yeah, suddenly everyone is a Syrian war refugee with no papers. Whoops.   

 

Angela Merkel should be immediately removed from her political position for causing so much damage and chaos. 

Edited September 15, 2015 by Woldan

[Varana]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

[Sarex]

I am kind of glad this is happening to Europe, after the **** we had to endure for decades it's kind of nice to see the same thing happen to the people who condemned us for it.

[Darkpriest]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

 

 

there is a difference between few hundreds across all EU, and possibly 2-5k grouped in a couple of countries like, Germany, UK, Sweden, France.

[Meshugger]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

 

 

ISIS themselves claim about 4000 warriors. But no one can truly know since refugees tend to tear their passports at the Serbian/Hungarian border.

[Leferd]

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/09/13/telecom-billionaire-naguib-sawiris-on-syrian-refugee-crisis-i-cannot-just-sit-and-just-do-nothing-and-pretend-its-not-my-problem/

 

An Egyptian billionaire wants to purchase Mediterranean islands for refugees.

[Malcador]

Yeah, for his private army and slaves if watching Bond movies teaches us anything

[Volourn]

He should be spending his billionz to build a palce for them in the ME. Afterall, we all know the West is evil and the ME is all nice and cute. Why would people want to come here?