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This is a fantastic game.  I wish it had a higher budget, can you imagine what this game would be like if it was like Dragon Age: Origins. By this I mean:

 

Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

Have full blown cut scenes, including the scripted ones.  Either in game or pre rendered.

Fully voiced characters (with better voice actors).  [ Yes, I know DA:O had a silent protaganist, but still]

The ability to customize your character's looks better.

 

And most importantly, tactics.

 

Imagine how powerful Grieiving Mother would be if you could tell her that if x enemies are between her and Eder, cast Ectopsychic Echo.  Even better if you can also tell her to cast soul shock on Eder if x amount of enemies are arround him, but only do so if she has over 50 focus.

 

It woulld allow you to use your party far more effectively and make combat flow a lot better as a result.  No more having to pause all the time, just set up the tactics correctly and let the battle unfold. This is a game that most certainly would benefit from that.

 

Granted for big fights, like the adra dragon, you would still have to do some hand holding.  After all, in DA:O you have to do that with the high dragon regardless of tactics.

 

Possibly romance as well, gay or straight, or both.  I am not prejudiced.

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Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

 

 

 

What?

 

The isometric look was one of the main (if not the main) selling points in the Kickstarter.

 

The amount of detail in the environment is simply not the same as what you get with 3D. 

 

Plus DA:O is ugly as hell. I tried playing it but the graphics and colors were so cartoony I gave up. Reminded me of World of Warcraft.

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Isometrick look is fine, and works well with cRPG where stroy/mechanic/gameplay are more important. It also allows for more interesting design for less time/money.

Isometric cutscenes and paragraph book cutscenes are fine.

There is tactics comming. Even a simple one will be great improvment. Companions not staying idle, finding right path, occasionally using heals or aoe when it matters.

 

It is important to know what exacly players expect from cRPG, and i bet it is not better graphic.

Better focus time/money on things accordingly to importance for players.

 

DA:O was nice for the time it come. Good job on character models, but locations had little details.

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Isometrick look is fine, and works well with cRPG where stroy/mechanic/gameplay are more important. It also allows for more interesting design for less time/money.

Isometric cutscenes and paragraph book cutscenes are fine.

DA:O was nice for the time it come. Good job on character models, but locations had little details.

 

To be honest I thought the same about Isometric graphics.  They were just fine for the time it came, back in the days in Fallout 1 and Baldur's Gate.  But that was 17 years ago, now they seem to lack any detail at all especially when it comes to characters.  The text was also okay back then, but it completley lacks the emotional depth of modern day voice acting.

 

As a result of this lack of detail and connection I have a harder time getting into it.

Edited by Otis0310
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This is a fantastic game.  I wish it had a higher budget, can you imagine what this game would be like if it was like Dragon Age: Origins. By this I mean:

 

Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

Have full blown cut scenes, including the scripted ones.  Either in game or pre rendered.

Fully voiced characters (with better voice actors).  [ Yes, I know DA:O had a silent protaganist, but still]

The ability to customize your character's looks better.

 

And most importantly, tactics.

 

Imagine how powerful Grieiving Mother would be if you could tell her that if x enemies are between her and Eder, cast Ectopsychic Echo.  Even better if you can also tell her to cast soul shock on Eder if x amount of enemies are arround him, but only do so if she has over 50 focus.

 

It woulld allow you to use your party far more effectively and make combat flow a lot better as a result.  No more having to pause all the time, just set up the tactics correctly and let the battle unfold. This is a game that most certainly would benefit from that.

 

Granted for big fights, like the adra dragon, you would still have to do some hand holding.  After all, in DA:O you have to do that with the high dragon regardless of tactics.

 

Possibly romance as well, gay or straight, or both.  I am not prejudiced.

Buddy... Every thing you mentioned is what sold the game. This style of the game got me to buy it.

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Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

 

 

 

What?

 

The isometric look was one of the main (if not the main) selling points in the Kickstarter.

 

The amount of detail in the environment is simply not the same as what you get with 3D.

 

 

 

Maybe the isometric was a selling point not because they wanted to make it isometric, but because they had no choice.

Think about it, given the amount of logical cut scenes you would have.  The riots in the city, the wagons at the beginning of the game, the biawic, even Grieving Mother's story line.  Is there any possible way that they could have created those cut scenes, plus the voice acting, and the larger, more detailed, 3D graphics on a 3 Million dollar budget?

 

No, they would need at least ten times that.  So maybe they went isometric because if they went the other way the budget would be increased ten fold and no kickstarter campaign would ever realistically meet a 30 million dollar goal.   Perhaps that was the bigger motivation in going isometric vs 3D, money, not artistic design.

 

 

And those machines you see in the game can easily be done in 3D.  The meshes  might be slightly harder to deal with and the textures would be far far larger leading to more time to make them and computational power to handle them as well as an increase in cost.   But it could be done, if Obsidian had a budget about 10 times what this was.

Edited by Otis0310
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Make Pillars a Dragon Age clone?  :yucky:  No thank you we are talking apples and oranges here - Pillars is just what it was supposed to be and exactly what the Kickstarter promised. :thumbsup:

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Maybe the isometric was a selling point not because they wanted to make it isometric, but because they had no choice.

Think about it, given the amount of logical cut scenes you would have.  The riots in the city, the wagons at the beginning of the game, the biawic, even Grieving Mother's story line.  Is there any possible way that they could have created those cut scenes, plus the voice acting, and the larger, more detailed, 3D graphics on a 3 Million dollar budget?

 

No, they would need at least ten times that.  So maybe they went isometric because if they went the other way the budget would be increased ten fold and no kickstarter campaign would ever realistically meet a 30 million dollar goal.   Perhaps that was the bigger motivation in going isometric vs 3D, money, not artistic design.

 

 

And those machines you see in the game can easily be done in 3D.  The meshes  might be slightly harder to deal with and the textures would be far far larger leading to more time to make them and computational power to handle them as well as an increase in cost.   But it could be done, if Obsidian had a budget about 10 times what this was.

 

By that logic, you might as well argue they wanted to do an MMORPG but couldn't because of money constraints.

Seriously, the game got backed for the most part because people wanted it to turn out like it is now. Everything else is wishful thinking.

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Maybe the isometric was a selling point not because they wanted to make it isometric, but because they had no choice.

Think about it, given the amount of logical cut scenes you would have.  The riots in the city, the wagons at the beginning of the game, the biawic, even Grieving Mother's story line.  Is there any possible way that they could have created those cut scenes, plus the voice acting, and the larger, more detailed, 3D graphics on a 3 Million dollar budget?

 

No, they would need at least ten times that.  So maybe they went isometric because if they went the other way the budget would be increased ten fold and no kickstarter campaign would ever realistically meet a 30 million dollar goal.   Perhaps that was the bigger motivation in going isometric vs 3D, money, not artistic design.

 

 

And those machines you see in the game can easily be done in 3D.  The meshes  might be slightly harder to deal with and the textures would be far far larger leading to more time to make them and computational power to handle them as well as an increase in cost.   But it could be done, if Obsidian had a budget about 10 times what this was.

 

By that logic, you might as well argue they wanted to do an MMORPG but couldn't because of money constraints.

Seriously, the game got backed for the most part because people wanted it to turn out like it is now. Everything else is wishful thinking.

 

But asking for Romance isn't wishful thinking right ? That would be more like ....common sense  :wub:

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And opposite points is that Dragon Age is nice (especially Origin and Inquisition) but it has limits, and is end of all.

 

Sometimes game design just work for what it does.

ANother example is Civilization, we could expect that "it was good when it came, but now its time to move on", but Civs are still rolling, and there are clones like Galactic Civilizations. Somehow Civ does not turn into Total War.

 

And isometric look just work for players. Witcher or Dark Sould are great, but there is still place for: Pillars, Shadowrun, Divinity Orginal SIn, Satelite Reign, XCOM. even MOBAs.

Isometric just works fine, and leaves time/money for storytelling, mechanic, items, sounds.

 

Romance is just redherring here. It could be discussed separetly in another topic.

Edited by evilcat
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I like the DA games but they are what they are, which is not POE. I wouldn't change the look of POE (except maybe the hat = bald phenomena). I'm not married to any specific type of aesthetic, just a consistent one. The artwork in POE, especially the landscapes, is imo really, really, lovely. It's like navigating your characters through semi-3D watercolor or gouache paintings. They're, well, lovely.

 

Edit: And, the interiors, which end up with weirdo giant scale problems (because you actually need to be able to move your party) is totally offset with tons of charming and often individualized detail.

Edited by Aennilya
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Anyways, the main point of my post is that this game would benefit from a similar tactics system as Dragon Age.

No doubt there could be better party AI and more tactical options, but the rest of your suggestions (3D, voice acting, cut scenes) completely miss the whole point of the game.

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This is a fantastic game.  I wish it had a higher budget, can you imagine what this game would be like if it was like Dragon Age: Origins.

 

DAO is trash

 

Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

 

just no

 

Have full blown cut scenes, including the scripted ones.  Either in game or pre rendered.

 

yeah no

 

 

Fully voiced characters (with better voice actors).

 

 

no one here cares about voice acting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

youre in the wrong forum buddy

Edited by Luj1
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This is a fantastic game.  I wish it had a higher budget, can you imagine what this game would be like if it was like Dragon Age: Origins. By this I mean:

 

Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

Have full blown cut scenes, including the scripted ones.  Either in game or pre rendered.

Fully voiced characters (with better voice actors).  [ Yes, I know DA:O had a silent protaganist, but still]

The ability to customize your character's looks better.

 

And most importantly, tactics.

 

Imagine how powerful Grieiving Mother would be if you could tell her that if x enemies are between her and Eder, cast Ectopsychic Echo.  Even better if you can also tell her to cast soul shock on Eder if x amount of enemies are arround him, but only do so if she has over 50 focus.

 

It woulld allow you to use your party far more effectively and make combat flow a lot better as a result.  No more having to pause all the time, just set up the tactics correctly and let the battle unfold. This is a game that most certainly would benefit from that.

 

Granted for big fights, like the adra dragon, you would still have to do some hand holding.  After all, in DA:O you have to do that with the high dragon regardless of tactics.

 

Possibly romance as well, gay or straight, or both.  I am not prejudiced.

 

I completely disagree; maybe you would prefer watching a movie, if those points you mention (non- isometric view, ful voice, etc) or play DA. The game is what was clearly going to be!

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Anyways, the main point of my post is that this game would benefit from a similar tactics system as Dragon Age.

No doubt there could be better party AI and more tactical options, but the rest of your suggestions (3D, voice acting, cut scenes) completely miss the whole point of the game.

 

Yeah, tactics could be better.  I think the detailed conditional tactics in Dragon Age 2 were one of the few bright spots in that game, but then again they were absolute necessary because combat went by so fast I never had a clue what any of my party members were doing, and it was hard to tell which spells worked well on an opponent.  They got around that in DA:I by just making the game absurdly easy.  DA:O was the last Bioware game in which I felt I had meaningful control of more than one character and people complained that it was too slow and required too much micromanagement.  I think PoE fans like to be hands-on and control the action.

 

I like 3-D games fine, but if I'm controlling multiple characters a fixed camera some distance away from the action works better strategically, though it would be nice to be able to rotate the camera.  If I really want an immersive game, I'll play a game with a first-person viewpoint, not one with a wonky camera that follows me around and gets stuck in trees...but it's hard to control a squad effectively from the first person view point.

Edited by magritte
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...

no one here cares about voice acting

 

 

 Not exactly. I think full voice acting and cutscene movies are annoying. Very annoying. So, I do care about it (and I don't want it).

 

 If Obsidian makes a pile of money on this game and invests it in a sequel, I would rather see the money go to things that will help the game (more content; better enemy ai etc.).

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Thankfully Obsidian was not out to make another shooter with swords "action RPG". Some people here still enjoy the old-school isometric games with tactical, party-based combat and RTwP.

 

I've just recently bought The Witcher 3 and as good as it is (because it is; credit where credit is due), I still like Pillars of Eternity a ton better. And that has everything to do with its being isometric, party based, RTwP, and heavily relying on text.

 

I would gladly back PoE 2 for another $250—even more, if I could spare more—but I would never pay the same amount for any "action RPG".

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— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Scrap the isometric look and go for 3D.

 

 

 

What?

 

The isometric look was one of the main (if not the main) selling points in the Kickstarter.

 

The amount of detail in the environment is simply not the same as what you get with 3D.

 

 

Maybe the isometric was a selling point not because they wanted to make it isometric, but because they had no choice.

Think about it, given the amount of logical cut scenes you would have.  The riots in the city, the wagons at the beginning of the game, the biawic, even Grieving Mother's story line.  Is there any possible way that they could have created those cut scenes, plus the voice acting, and the larger, more detailed, 3D graphics on a 3 Million dollar budget?

 

No, they would need at least ten times that.  So maybe they went isometric because if they went the other way the budget would be increased ten fold and no kickstarter campaign would ever realistically meet a 30 million dollar goal.   Perhaps that was the bigger motivation in going isometric vs 3D, money, not artistic design.

 

 

And those machines you see in the game can easily be done in 3D.  The meshes  might be slightly harder to deal with and the textures would be far far larger leading to more time to make them and computational power to handle them as well as an increase in cost.   But it could be done, if Obsidian had a budget about 10 times what this was.

i do agree partly, that money was a reason but i think also time, that they went with such game as kickstarter. Myself, i don't oppose things you are asking for as long as i could zoom out far enough, detach the camera and move it around freely, just so that i wouldn't need to rotate around. I think Bioware went there with DAI just you couldn't zoom out far enough. But as long as these conditions are met i don't see anything preventing combat a la bg2 which i was hoping for in PoE but didn't get. What i've learned from this kickstarter is that 2D alone doesn't guarantee anything.
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My guess that new people doesnt find this game very apealing is because of the lack of envorement, animations and cutscenes. You got to use some sparks and tricks to make them continue play your game at some point. There are nearly none idle animations... nwm that the animations part is just not there to begin with. That makes very selected few have cutscenes have little animations. Beside the gorgeous graphics & music, envoriment is feel empty. The lack of NPC's wondering around, Day/Night cycle without any use... The snowball effect of lacking standart features of todays rpg makes this game feels like a ghost town from 2000's game.

 

Familiar people did continue play because of the nostalgia but even that has Its limits; now the lacking gameplay elements starting to show up like some strict rules or the enemy AI is not challenging enough...

 

At least Devs didnt gave up on the game, slowly but steadly, continue to carve to find the potential gem hidden in this game. Which is good thing but I hope next time, devs could really listen and reconsider more IF they make fan beta for future games. Because It turns out that all of the conserning points were valid. I get you have to have one vision to make a game but that doesnt mean to ignore demands and todays standars to make isometric rpg. 

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I think that devs know what are they doing. ;-)

There is clearly demnad for infinity games. And isometric view is quite popular this days. Even "Isometric cRPG" are doing great (both Shadowrun and Original Sin ware a succes).

 

There is weather and day/night cycle and it matters in some locations.

 

In internet shops (GoG, Steam) it is hard to find sane consumer's negative review.

People are beaching about patchfinding and lack of tactical AI at all in first release but that is obvious.

Edited by evilcat
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Pillars of Eternity does have a day/night cycle and NPCs wandering around, although it could definitely use more of the latter. evilcat ninja'd me on this.

 

"Isometric RPG" is a genre, not a standard. So making one in 2015 does not mean you are ignoring today's standards. Quite the opposite: Obsidian went to great lengths to ensure their 2D backgrounds would have real-time lighting and shadow effects, which was not as easy a task as to have the same things in a full-3D environment.

 

But as I said, Pillars of Eternity doesn't cater to modern console kids who only care about flashy graphics and VOs. It caters to people who still want to play games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. This is by design. It is not a byproduct of having a small budget; it is what the devs wanted to do all along and what backers forked out their cash for.

 

Again, I wouldn't back an action RPG for any amount but I would pour all the cash I could on another IE-like game. I don't need flashy graphics in my games; I need quality content and quality writing.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Well we have totally conflicting ideas OP.

 

Graphics are perfect as is. Voice acting I don't care much about.

tactics I care even less about. I love pausing and having full control. I Never used any tactics in dragon age origins. In these types of games it's always the first thing I toggle off. I find party AI very annoying.

 

I would spend extra money on internal class balance. Some of the abilities are too useless and it would be nice if everything was at least viable.

 

Higher level cap and more abilities.

 

Better crafting system. And deeper.

 

Better deeper skill system with more skills.

 

More animations for combat skills. More fatalities besides the gibs thing. These not really necessary but would be cool.

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