Update #99: Announcing the Expansion and Update 2.0

[Sensuki]

A shame that these things need to go through an official QA team.

Not at all actually. It would have probably saved time on the project trying it earlier though. Rather than going through all the previous (not as good, even statistically) implementations. There was some resistance to our idea by them based on some rather silly things like "Deflection feeling wrong on Resolve" - which ended up happening anyway, and Accuracy and Interrupt's overlap being a "dead end design wise". Looks like they changed their mind about both of those things though, hahah.

 

Also, I remember the comment by one of the designers (BAdler?) that JS will never hear and implement anything Sensuki suggest because he is a PROFESSIONAL and he knows better.

I must admit it's been a while since I've even bothered to check developer posts but I used to read them every day during the beta and I never saw any posts like that and even if they thought that it's not something they would say in public. Regardless, they did implement stuff I suggested. I'm also not upset about anything that I suggested not making it into the game because I don't believe anything I suggested would have changed my opinion on the full game. I was hoping that the problems I was having in the beta wouldn't be as big of a deal in the full game (the devs also kinda backed up that outlook), but unfortunately it turned out to be the opposite. Instead the problems were magnified, and there were more of them

 

That said, the removal of this interaction makes the math easier, not harder. And at first blush +1 Accuracy seems pretty weak (especially compared to +3% damage from Might; 1 point of Accuracy is only worth +1-1.5% damage), but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Accuracy is useful for a bit more than boosting expected damage, after all. Interested to see what they come up with. Weak as it is, that change should at least keep Perception from being a dump stat (which is sorta is at the moment).

My theory was (during v435-v492 days) that after the multiplicative calculation was changed to an additive one that +1 Accuracy and +3 or 6% Interrupt would actually be quite good, balance wise. A good choice for any class as everyone needs accuracy and the accuracy augments the Interrupt (as the Deflection indirectly augments the Concentration), so those that don't really need the Interrupt get something out of it as well. I thought it would be better for caster classes that focus on duration-based effects. For those types of classes there's not really that much of a reason to choose Perception because they don't really get anything out of it. With accuracy, now there would be a very good reason to choose it.

 

I also recall Josh stating that they would have another look at Attributes after the game was released because they needed to focus on bug-fixing.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Sensuki

[GreyFox]

IF they tune down talents then why have them at all..they barely do anything to begin with.

 

**** I feel like most talents need to be buffed....+15 to ranger companion defense vs mind control affects...ok I'll pick that one! (cept not)

+10 Will instead of a straight up break mind affects 1per rest(or encounter) type thing...boring.

[Matt516]

So 1.07 and 2.0 patch are the same, or will there be different versions wiht or without the expansion ? 

 

I believe they said that the new features will be coming to everyone, regardless of if they buy the expansion or not. As for if 1.07 will be separate from 2.0 I have no idea - but the features being added in the expansion are going to be available to everyone.

 

the numerical values is indeed important, but again, shouldn't it be a positive to you and sensuki that obsidian is gonna, for at least this incarnation o' poe, use an attribute distribution so familiar to you both?  you seem pleased.  the change is a good thing, yes? does sensuki seem pleased?  is a question. HA! Good Fun!

 

Can't speak for Sensuki, but I'm pleased-ish. The current system isn't terrible, this will probably be an improvement. Though it's more bemused than anything else haha - I just think it's kinda funny (and yes, a bit vindicating).

 

Tbh, when I take the "armchair game designer" hat off and put the "player" hat on, I stop being too worried about it. During the Beta I was continuously wearing the former, whereas after the game came out I made a conscious effort to wear the latter except when on the forums giving feedback. 

 

 

My theory was (during v435-v492 days) that after the multiplicative calculation was changed to an additive one that +1 Accuracy and +3 or 6% Interrupt would actually be quite good, balance wise. A good choice for any class as everyone needs accuracy and the accuracy augments the Interrupt (as the Deflection indirectly augments the Concentration), so those that don't really need the Interrupt get something out of it as well. I thought it would be better for caster classes that focus on duration-based effects. For those types of classes there's not really that much of a reason to choose Perception because they don't really get anything out of it. With accuracy, now there would be a very good reason to choose it.

I also recall Josh stating that they would have another look at Attributes after the game was released because they needed to focus on bug-fixing.

 

Yeah - it's definitely weaker than Might for pure damage, but that's actually fine IMO. Might should be the best attribute for damage. Accuracy enables more crits, and there are a few effects that proc on crit (not to mention increased crit damage features) - so I can see the benefit to that. Perception becomes a somewhat secondary damage attribute, but has slightly more far-reaching effects than Might.

 

S'better than Perception being a must-max for "tanks" and a dump stat for everyone else, that's for sure.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Matt516

[Elerond]

 

 

My theory was (during v435-v492 days) that after the multiplicative calculation was changed to an additive one that +1 Accuracy and +3 or 6% Interrupt would actually be quite good, balance wise. A good choice for any class as everyone needs accuracy and the accuracy augments the Interrupt (as the Deflection indirectly augments the Concentration), so those that don't really need the Interrupt get something out of it as well. I thought it would be better for caster classes that focus on duration-based effects. For those types of classes there's not really that much of a reason to choose Perception because they don't really get anything out of it. With accuracy, now there would be a very good reason to choose it.

I also recall Josh stating that they would have another look at Attributes after the game was released because they needed to focus on bug-fixing.

 

Yeah - it's definitely weaker than Might for pure damage, but that's actually fine IMO. Might should be the best attribute for damage. Accuracy enables more crits, and there are a few effects that proc on crit (not to mention increased crit damage features) - so I can see the benefit to that. Perception becomes a somewhat secondary damage attribute, but has slightly more far-reaching effects than Might.

 

S'better than Perception being a must-max for "tanks" and a dump stat for everyone1 else, that's for sure.

 

 

Although that was before overhaul of interrupt system, at that time one were able to make interrupt builds that actually stopped enemy to do anything and adding accuracy bonus in the mix would had make things just worst. Although problem was in math behind interrupting not in accuracy bonus itself, but in hindsight Obsidian did quite lot attribute balancing during time when game mechanics tied to them worked differently then they do now. 

 

In other note, I hope that expansion patch finally will make high stealth feel worth while investment.

[Merany]

I want to ask too about this: 2.0 will come out with the expansion so we will se 1.7 patch or not?

 

Curious about that too!

I was planning to start a second playthrough very soon but put it on hold when I read stuff about a 1.07 patch that was supposed to be pretty big... 

Is 2.0 and 1.7 the same? Cause if yes, I might start playing again now assuming the patch won't come out for quite a while.

[BAdler]

Probably overly hopeful of me to ask, but will Kickstarter backers who received physical copies of Pillars of Eternity at a level that included the expansion also receive a physical copy of The White March?  Will physical editions even be produced?

We are not currently planning on releasing physical copies of the expansion. This may change in the future, but we haven't discussed it.

[BAdler]

So 1.07 and 2.0 patch are the same, or will there be different versions wiht or without the expansion ? 

 

1.07 was renamed to 2.0. It will be available for everyone - expansion or not.

[Osvir]

Hahaha, for some reason, seeing Zahua all scarred up like that reminds me of this thread. Was Zahua born and raised to be a warrior monk, or was it something he became "enlightened" to?

EDIT: Also, great news. Can't wait :D

IIIIIIIH!! O_O

 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Osvir

[Elerond]

 

Probably overly hopeful of me to ask, but will Kickstarter backers who received physical copies of Pillars of Eternity at a level that included the expansion also receive a physical copy of The White March?  Will physical editions even be produced?

We are not currently planning on releasing physical copies of the expansion. This may change in the future, but we haven't discussed it.

 

 

If you discuss it, please be nice and bring up idea of extra stuff box, similar to collector edition box, that don't necessary don't need to have game disc only steam/gog/origin code but main part is the extra stuff like map, t-shirt, printed novelette / short story collection, etc.. Because I just like to have big boxes on my shelves, but I don't anymore really use physical discs to install games.

[Luckmann]

folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational.  think respec is a waste o' resources?  sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Strawnir, as usual, no-one has made that argument.

[View619]

 

So 1.07 and 2.0 patch are the same, or will there be different versions wiht or without the expansion ? 

 

1.07 was renamed to 2.0. It will be available for everyone - expansion or not.

 

 

Exciting times! Will 2.0 be available on the Steam beta\preliminary\candidate branch like previous patches?

[Elerond]

 

folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational.  think respec is a waste o' resources?  sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Strawnir, as usual, no-one has made that argument.

 

 

Actually there has been some that have made that argument in some threads concerning topic of respec in PoE, which was bit strange to me.

[Gromnir]

*insert eye-roll here*

 

as to your continued confusion 'bout strawman:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79911-the-all-priest-challenge/?p=1699870

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps elerond is correct.  every time we see such, we is mystified.  other than a resource argument (which luckman did not proffer here) there don't appear to be a rational argument 'gainst respec. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Gromnir

[Matt516]

 

 

 

folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational. think respec is a waste o' resources? sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Strawnir, as usual, no-one has made that argument.

Actually there has been some that have made that argument in some threads concerning topic of respec in PoE, which was bit strange to me.

I don't see what other argument there could be against respec, Luckmann, other than the aforementioned resource hog issue. What's your reasoning, then? What's wrong with them offering a respec option when changing core game systems that affect character builds? Does that impact your enjoyment of the game?

[View619]

 

 

 

folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational. think respec is a waste o' resources? sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Strawnir, as usual, no-one has made that argument.

Actually there has been some that have made that argument in some threads concerning topic of respec in PoE, which was bit strange to me.

I don't see what other argument there could be against respec, Luckmann, other than the aforementioned resource hog issue. What's your reasoning, then? What's wrong with them offering a respec option when changing core game systems that affect character builds? Does that impact your enjoyment of the game?

 

 

"Immersion breaking"

 

/sarcasm

Edited June 25, 2015 by View619

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 

folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational. think respec is a waste o' resources? sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Strawnir, as usual, no-one has made that argument.

Actually there has been some that have made that argument in some threads concerning topic of respec in PoE, which was bit strange to me.

I don't see what other argument there could be against respec, Luckmann, other than the aforementioned resource hog issue. What's your reasoning, then? What's wrong with them offering a respec option when changing core game systems that affect character builds? Does that impact your enjoyment of the game?

 

 

"Immersion breaking"

 

/sarcasm

 

*chuckle*

 

oh well, is gonna go off the rails quick, but luckman, as seen from the link, has some difficulty grasping strawman regardless.

 

on-topic, we will once again observe that a change to companion paladins and faiths and convictions would be worth consideration.  oh, and cassowary animal companions for rangers.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Gromnir

[Osvir]

Speculation about respec options, if there'd ever be any:

- The Devil of Caroc is a soul trapped in a golem/entity (Meaning: It is possible to transfer and place a soul inside an object and keeping the person's mind and senses intact within it, in the world of Eora).
- What would happen if the Player placed their soul inside a golem? What would happen to all of their physical skills and abilities? = Hence, respec.
- Would you gain a bonus (a unique talent "Copper Skin" or something?) at the cost/sacrifice of something? (e.g. Can't equip armor) Can the Devil of Caroc equip armor, or does she (it) have some specific rules as she is very different from standard races/units/heroes?

Here's some history discussions:
- "Can you respec?"

- "Option to Respec"

[Gromnir]

am gonna, for the nonce, assume you is being humorous.  nevertheless, there is obvious analogous rpg situations for exactly the kinda thing you speak of in your post.

 

d&d 3.5 addressed the application o' templates to a player character.  becoming undead or a lycanthrope (or dozens o' other template options) resulted in gains/ losses o' abilities, changes to saves and alteration o' level progression... if the dm allowed such.  your example strikes us as fodder for template as 'posed to respec. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Dark_Ansem]

Party AI looks like a much wanted feature

[Monte Carlo]

Can't say I'm looking as much forward to "The Devil of Caroc", who sounds both snowflake-y ("I'm a GOLEM inhabited by the SOUL of a murderer, and my name is a verb!") and trope-y ("I'm en evuuul rogue and I've DONE things!").

 

OTOH, I think a murderous C3PO-femme robotic murderer is a pretty cool idea for an NPC.

 

I'm with you on Forton, though.

[BAdler]

 

 

So 1.07 and 2.0 patch are the same, or will there be different versions wiht or without the expansion ? 

 

1.07 was renamed to 2.0. It will be available for everyone - expansion or not.

 

 

Exciting times! Will 2.0 be available on the Steam beta\preliminary\candidate branch like previous patches?

 

Most likely. We will want to get some extra eyeballs on it.

[Sannom]

"The Devil of Caroc" a verb? Personally, I think "Grieving Mother" is sillier. Also, Zahua sounds better than Forton, fits better in the world as they said..

 

I agree with you that it seems too Torment-esque of a character though. It is a huge challenge to write a character like this without seeming overly pretentious or out of place. The fact that it is a possessed bronze armor should not just be a stylistic choice, but it should justify and complement the character's arc/personality.

What I find most interesting about the Devil so far is that it sounds like some really advanced soul technology, the kind that only Engwythian are supposed to have mastered, but that lady has been in a metal construct for fifteen years, top.

 

on-topic, we will once again observe that a change to companion paladins and faiths and convictions would be worth consideration.  oh, and cassowary animal companions for rangers.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You really want your terror bird in the game, heh? I wonder what kind of special ability it could have?

[Osvir]

am gonna, for the nonce, assume you is being humorous.  nevertheless, there is obvious analogous rpg situations for exactly the kinda thing you speak of in your post.

 

d&d 3.5 addressed the application o' templates to a player character.  becoming undead or a lycanthrope (or dozens o' other template options) resulted in gains/ losses o' abilities, changes to saves and alteration o' level progression... if the dm allowed such.  your example strikes us as fodder for template as 'posed to respec. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Not humorous, just got reminded about some old ideas and some old discussions on the matter after reading the discussion about respeccing here.

 

What I mean is not that your character "transforms" into something (be it werewolf or undead), but rather, taken out of their own body, and put in another body. That new body, that other body, will have other traits, other physique, another brain maybe even. Respecialization could become a mechanical feature this way, and a narrative short story at the same time.

 

Usually, in MMO's, it tends to be "Find Respec NPC -> Choose/Decide if you want to respect -> Pay Gold -> Respec".

 

It could be "Find Quest -> Go deeper into intricate mysteries -> Uncover lost secrets (Find "Machine" or boss or whatever) -> Choose/Decide if you want to respec or not -> Get reward based on choice/decision (consequence)".

 

Transforming into a werewolf could be seen as "augmentation". You augment your already existent traits and skills, to become stronger or better in some sort of perceived way, but being put in another body, I imagine, would be like learning everything new again (walking, talking, moving, breathing etc.etc.), because your "mind" or "soul" would have no muscle memory of the new body.

 

Hence, potential "respec"~ I thought this would be a more interesting way to deal with "Respec" rather than it just being some "button" somewhere (like in MMO's), and possibly a middle-ground solution to both the Yay-sayers and the Nay-sayers.

 

You want to respec? Do X quest, put your soul in "construct"/"machine". Gain Y.

You don't want to respec? Do X quest, destroy "construct"/"machine". Gain Z. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Osvir

[Elerond]

 

"The Devil of Caroc" a verb? Personally, I think "Grieving Mother" is sillier. Also, Zahua sounds better than Forton, fits better in the world as they said..

 

I agree with you that it seems too Torment-esque of a character though. It is a huge challenge to write a character like this without seeming overly pretentious or out of place. The fact that it is a possessed bronze armor should not just be a stylistic choice, but it should justify and complement the character's arc/personality.

What I find most interesting about the Devil so far is that it sounds like some really advanced soul technology, the kind that only Engwythian are supposed to have mastered, but that lady has been in a metal construct for fifteen years, top.

Knight of the Crucible are/were in their way to mass product bit less self aware versions of such constructs, meaning that there has to be at least some people around that have studied such thing and who have gotten some results out of their studies.

[GreyFox]

Usually I'm not down with respecing but for this game why not...it plays like other action RPGs that have respecs.  Also few talents are cool and some seem like they are better than they are...so I wouldn't fault someone for wanting to get rid of "body control" when their character still gets held every fight. That's assuming the +10 even works at all...or if that is even high enough...hell the +50 spell doesn't make much difference that I can tell so +10...yea.

 

Would also like to use Watcher powers for something other than reading backer NPC stories...or for very few convenient story moving pieces(what are the exact powers anyway)(and why couldn't I act during the trial even though I saw dude man clearly)...perhaps it just wasn't that strong a main story arc.  We sure needed other Cipher's help quite a bit for someone who can read/see/manipulate souls...all that Dunryd Row stuff made me feel like Watchers were just horrible Ciphers.