Jump to content
BAdler

Update #99: Announcing the Expansion and Update 2.0

Recommended Posts

I don't see what other argument there could be against respec, Luckmann, other than the aforementioned resource hog issue. What's your reasoning, then? What's wrong with them offering a respec option when changing core game systems that affect character builds? Does that impact your enjoyment of the game?

 

Yes, it cheapens the decisions regarding character advancement and the interaction between the characters as characters in their own right, and the mechanical representation thereof.

 

 

That being said, a one-time respec upon loading a pre-2.0 save would be acceptable, I guess, as long as it doesn't become a habit or an intended game mechanic. Probably for the best.

 

 

oh well, is gonna go off the rails quick, but luckman, as seen from the link, has some difficulty grasping strawman regardless.

 

on-topic, we will once again observe that a change to companion paladins and faiths and convictions would be worth consideration.  oh, and cassowary animal companions for rangers.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Strawnir, I love that you keep bringing up old threads where you make a fool of yourself as an example of me not understanding strawmen, when you're the one that just cannot stop yourself from constantly strawmanning. At first it was funny, then it was annoying, and now it's just crossed into the realm of sad. sad.png Get help, Strawnir.

 

Actually there has been some that have made that argument in some threads concerning topic of respec in PoE, which was bit strange to me.

 

Well I really haven't seen any arguments like that in the threads I've been in, that's for sure. :|

Edited by Luckmann

t50aJUd.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im very happy with the changes i see forward to the day of release but i have a question do negative perception will affect negatively accuracy or is just reduced to 0?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

am gonna, for the nonce, assume you is being humorous.  nevertheless, there is obvious analogous rpg situations for exactly the kinda thing you speak of in your post.

 

d&d 3.5 addressed the application o' templates to a player character.  becoming undead or a lycanthrope (or dozens o' other template options) resulted in gains/ losses o' abilities, changes to saves and alteration o' level progression... if the dm allowed such.  your example strikes us as fodder for template as 'posed to respec. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Not humorous, just got reminded about some old ideas and some old discussions on the matter after reading the discussion about respeccing here.

 

What I mean is not that your character "transforms" into something (be it werewolf or undead), but rather, taken out of their own body, and put in another body. That new body, that other body, will have other traits, other physique, another brain maybe even. Respecialization could become a mechanical feature this way, and a narrative short story at the same time.

 

 

am not sure what is the point of your distinction.  your new undead, lycanthrope, or, we-kid-you-not half-golem body from 3.5 d&d, (half-golem?  Half?) is gonna have other traits and other physique, and possibly no brain whatsoever given we are talking 'bout a magical world where anything is possible. is unnecessary sophistry.

 

*shrug*

 

regardless,the golemization bit doesn't strike us as Necessarily a respec opportunity.  moreover, if this is some kinda Serious attempt to avoid view 619's sarcastic immersion break, we believe it is wholly unnecessary and potentially counter-productive.  one use o' respec is that given changes made by the developers, intentional or otherwise, respec allows the player a chance to recraft his character so that it more close matches his intended character design.  for folks who built their fighter tank character with perception being their primary defensive attribute, their post 2.0 character will, through no fault o' their own, sudden become more efficacious in a dps role as 'posed to tank. developer changes with 2.0 is gonna invalidate more than a few individual role-play choices.  force an additional change on the player, golemization, if they wanna see their character more close match their intended design strikes us as counter-productive and manifest unfair.

 

now, if you wanna add a golimization opion complete separate o' respec, that would not offend our delicate role-play sensibilities.

 

"Yes, it cheapens the decisions regarding character advancement and the interaction between the characters as characters in their own right, and the mechanical representation thereof."

 

talk 'bout unclear on the concept.  if you are arguing that bob's use o' respec, or an opportunity to respec that you never use and never plan to use nevertheless cheapens Your gameplay, then you are not offering an alternative to matt's point. you are agreeing w/o realizing. 

 

and you still ain't shown any kinda grasp o' what is strawman.  we did not invent a weak argument and attribute it to you. 

 

...

 

is genuine surreal when dealing with luckman on this issue.  is why we bring in old threads 'cause otherwise is just spam... been there and done that many times. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luckmann...if the character creation system was good or worthwhile it wouldn't need respeccing. You are arguing that it cheapens character creation but most of the options are cheap and menial anyway so with a system like this is hard to fault people for wanting to respec...

 

A player may think having +1 weapon sets is worthwhile only find out that lulz no. or that your squishy would benefit from +5 deflection only to find out that...lulz no.

Or you took extra knockdown before finding another melee character but now you got 3 melee people later on in the game and you aren't knocking down 3 mobs in a fight.(or in POTD that it just doesn't work much)

 

It's mostly "best" to go offensive abilities/modals unless for RP purposes you just want other random talents.

 

Perhaps respecs could be a limited use item like Camping Supplies...like a soul husk or something.

Edited by GreyFox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I certainly wouldn't be for a respec-on-demand system as one sees in MMOs and ARPGs - that would be unnecessarily immersion breaking and somewhat at odds with the legacy of the IE games (with character stats and choices being permanent and powerful). But as you said, a respec upon loading the first save with the attribute changes would probably be for the best.

 

Not that I'd personally use it since my Barbarian PC's build wouldn't really be affected by the change (gain 2 deflection and lose 2 accuracy, whatever). But it's a nice option to have when game systems are being changed on you. Were it not offered ingame and if the changes did mess my build up somehow, I'd just use the dev console to do the respec anyway (as I did a few times in my playthrough when patches changed stuff or I discovered unituitive things about the mechanics). It's not like my immersion is damaged any worse by respeccing than it has been by attribute boni being changed mid-playthrough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A one-time respec for the PC seems fair, maybe a dream you have upon resting. Making changes to attributes which affect a player's build during his game needs to be covered in some way, whether it "breaks immersion" or not. They shouldn't need to access the console to do it.

Edited by View619
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as can be seen from osvir links, if one wishes to wade through such murk and muck, Gromnir has always been in favor o' a single respec opportunity, with the potential for that opportunity to be reset following a major patch that changes gameplay... such as 2.0 will. 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70370-option-to-respec/?p=1566871

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70370-option-to-respec/?p=1568555

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71211-can-you-respec/?p=1586759

 

now, you can all be astounded by our prescience... or not.  not take a carnac to have predicted the state o' poe at release or the likelihood o' significant developer changes thereafter.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=263eG7HfwBM

 

regardless, we has always requested a single respec option.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps is worth repeating that our post o' 18 march 2015 identified our continuing befuddlement regarding the interrupting blows talent.  took multiple patches for obsidian to recognize that the talent in question were not modifying anything. more than a few folks chose a complete impotent talent.  their role-play choice were cheapened through no fault o' their own.  a limited respec option makes such inevitabilities less painful and affords the developers more time to fix such oversights as the player has a way to mitigate the developer's unintentional cheapening o' the player's character development choices.

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not exactly exited by the Perception change, as it doesn't look balanced to me (even though PER and RES were too similar before so this option wins form diversity perspective), but the rest of the changes look good. Some major UI improvements and ability scaling. It's hard to tell before release of course, but overall I think this should be a good patch.

Edited by MadDemiurg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its great to see the upgrade to stealth, as well as the party AI.  This leaves me hopeful that you might still upgrade the enemy AI.  Will enemies remain in stealth and backstab?  Please add more variability to enemy actions in general; give them counters for common player tactics.  That will make the game more challenging and fun.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its great to see the upgrade to stealth, as well as the party AI.  This leaves me hopeful that you might still upgrade the enemy AI.  Will enemies remain in stealth and backstab?  Please add more variability to enemy actions in general; give them counters for common player tactics.  That will make the game more challenging and fun.

While I like the party AI option for the IE feelsies, I'd second that improved enemy AI is a much more needed "feature". :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its great to see the upgrade to stealth, as well as the party AI.  This leaves me hopeful that you might still upgrade the enemy AI.  Will enemies remain in stealth and backstab?  Please add more variability to enemy actions in general; give them counters for common player tactics.  That will make the game more challenging and fun.

 

Exchanging PMs with BMac, I learned that their work on party A.I. highlighted a number of subtle bugs in enemy A.I. that patch 2.0 is going to address. For example, enemy A.I. was never making use of modal abilities, but with patch 2.0 it will.

 

For part II of the expansion I hope they'll bring deeper improvements to enemy A.I. like:

 

  • Stealthing and backstabbing
  • Drinking potions
  • Better targeting

    (no more passing by an unengaged squishy and ignoring them to keep pursuing a tank that's already been engaged by a thousand other enemies.)

  • Smarter spell casting

    (right now it's something like "Cast X, then Y, then Z. Rinse and repeat."; should be more like, "If AoE hits my allies and my allies can take the hit, use damage types against which enemies aren't well protected; if my allies are below X endurance, only use damage types they're well protected against or single target spells" and so on.)

  • Using items' spellbinding abilities if/when it makes sense
  • Making intelligent decisions on whether to disengage and pursue a different target
  • Helping allies to disengage

    (e.g. Mark wants to disengage 'cause it makes sense to maim your dying squishy; Stephan knocks down whomever is engaging Mark to free him.)

 

You know, the SCS kind of stuff :D

Edited by AndreaColombo
  • Like 2

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An official version of SCS would be incredible. Good to see that the update to include party A.I. allows them to tighten up some of the enemy A.I. issues.

Edited by View619
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its great to see the upgrade to stealth, as well as the party AI.  This leaves me hopeful that you might still upgrade the enemy AI.  Will enemies remain in stealth and backstab?  Please add more variability to enemy actions in general; give them counters for common player tactics.  That will make the game more challenging and fun.

 

This is by far the most important issue to me.

 

BG SCS is an example of very intelligent enemy AI that not only creates interesting and challenging gameplay but also adds to immersion because enemies that are making smart decisions/adjustments kind of feel real. I really hope they come through with some good AI this time around.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

For part II of the expansion I hope they'll bring deeper improvements to enemy A.I. like:

 

  • Stealthing and backstabbing
  • Drinking potions
  • Better targeting

    (no more passing by an unengaged squishy and ignoring them to keep pursuing a tank that's already been engaged by a thousand other enemies.)

  • Smarter spell casting

    (right now it's something like "Cast X, then Y, then Z. Rinse and repeat."; should be more like, "If AoE hits my allies and my allies can take the hit, use damage types against which enemies aren't well protected; if my allies are below X endurance, only use damage types they're well protected against or single target spells" and so on.)

  • Using items' spellbinding abilities if/when it makes sense
  • Making intelligent decisions on whether to disengage and pursue a different target
  • Helping allies to disengage

    (e.g. Mark wants to disengage 'cause it makes sense to maim your dying squishy; Stephan knocks down whomever is engaging Mark to free him.)

 

You know, the SCS kind of stuff :D

 

 

This this this. I remember thinking how awesome it was the first time an enemy SCS mage cast magic missle against my mage that was casting Breach just so he could interupt him. Would be aweome if PoE had that kind of action :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome I can't wait for this to come out! Major improvements for sure, especially the chance to have/control party AI behavior. It seems a little basic from the video and hope maybe you will add to it and make it the same style as Dragon Age Origins where you can tell when they drink potions, use special attacks, ect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not exactly exited by the Perception change, as it doesn't look balanced to be (even though PER and RES were too similar before so this option wins form diversity perspective), but the rest of the changes look good. Some major UI improvements and ability scaling. It's hard to tell before release of course, but overall I think this should be a good patch.

 

I am! With a stat that actually adds to accuracy, builds focused on crits have a lot more potential. Makes me want to replay the game just for that!

 

So... when does this next patch get to gog? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im still missing decent crafting, better stronghold, stealing and multi traps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any chance we see a -3%/point armor recovery penalty for endurance?


I see the dreams so marvelously sad

 

The creeks of land so solid and encrusted

 

Where wave and tide against the shore is busted

 

While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed

 

trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DEX already does that, as its Attack Speed bonus also applies to recovery. It would be kinda redundant :\

 

I agree CON needs help, though. As it is, the penalty for dumping it is negligible and so are the benefits of pumping it.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DEX already does that, as its Attack Speed bonus also applies to recovery. It would be kinda redundant :\

 

I agree CON needs help, though. As it is, the penalty for dumping it is negligible and so are the benefits of pumping it.

Dex increases speed but more (faster) armor recovery would be really nice for constitution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Just tested this. DEX applies to recovery as well, not just the speed with which you attack. It does offset the recovery penalty from armor.


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...