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Update #99: Announcing the Expansion and Update 2.0

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given the depth and breadth o' changes that is arriving with 2.0, this is a welcome improvement that maintains the integrity o' poe as a role-play game.  we will not need have our player concept invalidated 'cause o' developer whim or error.  have us need restart to maintain role-play or gameplay continuity, regardless o' the fact that we invested +40 hours into the game?  as between burdening the developers so that they need add a respec feature, or burdening the player who has invested tens of hours into the game, am thinking the choice is obvious.  good move by obsidian.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

If that was the goal, a one-time respec upon loading a pre-2.0 save would've served. This doesn't maintain the integrity of PoE as a roleplaying game, it undermines it. Roleplaying games are about choices made, including the development of the character(s). There's no reason it should be exempt and the game allow you to yo-yo your character any more than the game should allow you to take back decisions made as part of the storyline or in quests.

 

 

From that picture it is difficult to say how many times player can respec/retrain one character.

 

True, but from it's placement I think it's fair to say that it's "in-universe". Once or twice or prohbiatively expensive doesn't really matter at that point.


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given the depth and breadth o' changes that is arriving with 2.0, this is a welcome improvement that maintains the integrity o' poe as a role-play game.  we will not need have our player concept invalidated 'cause o' developer whim or error.  have us need restart to maintain role-play or gameplay continuity, regardless o' the fact that we invested +40 hours into the game?  as between burdening the developers so that they need add a respec feature, or burdening the player who has invested tens of hours into the game, am thinking the choice is obvious.  good move by obsidian.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

If that was the goal, a one-time respec upon loading a pre-2.0 save would've served. This doesn't maintain the integrity of PoE as a roleplaying game, it undermines it. Roleplaying games are about choices made, including the development of the character(s). There's no reason it should be exempt and the game allow you to yo-yo your character any more than the game should allow you to take back decisions made as part of the storyline or in quests.

 

 

From that picture it is difficult to say how many times player can respec/retrain one character.

 

True, but from it's placement I think it's fair to say that it's "in-universe". Once or twice or prohbiatively expensive doesn't really matter at that point.

 

 

In that respect I don't see it to be any different from ability to hire and change companions in every inn or from ability to control stronghold from anywhere in the world, or unlimited stash, etc.. Meaning that it is just gameplay function that helps players life not something that is tied to be part of world of Eora. In my opinion such UI button is much better implementation than for example respec amulets in DA:I or respec potion in Witcher 3, or any other in-game world version of respect that we have seen in multitude of the games. 

Edited by Elerond
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I think it is much like resting anywhere in the game.  It is optional just as where you rest is optional.  Nothing forces you to rest near enemies you can always move to a space you have cleaned.  I do that because it is role playing.  The more options I have the happier I am.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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ps does anybody posting know how respec will actual work in 2.0, or is preemptive criticisms based on guesses?

At this point I don't think we can be sure that it will even be in the patch. All we have is a screenshot of something called "retraining" in the menu.

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They should make it so at the start of a new game you can click ''Enable Respec''. If you click to disable it, then you cant use the respec button for that playthrough. This would give everybody the best of both worlds.

Edited by Gary1986
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Again, though, this time aimed at Gkthellar; don't look at the Perception change in isolation, or as an isolated mechanic. While Perception may lose +Deflection, another Attribute might (and should, probably) gain +Deflection.

 

And having most enemies in the game gain a few points of Accuracy would probably be a pretty good thing, come to think of it.

 

Having had some time to ponder this, it occurs to me that moving Perception's +Deflection bonus to Constitution might help to rebalance the stats in general. Dunno. Thoughts.

 

Wish we had more information on this, though.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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I would still be against having two different stats affecting the same thing (e.g. Two separate stats affecting Deflection.)


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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I would still be against having two different stats affecting the same thing (e.g. Two separate stats affecting Deflection.)

I think I can understand why - it's a bit inelegant, and it kinda pigeonholes tanks around those two stats. But bear in mind that all of the other defenses derive from two attributes, if only to minimize the number of builds that don't get bonuses to them. And it'd keep the math in a similar location to the place it is today, so there's that.

Edited by gkathellar

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Few more tidbits from Josh on Something Awful:

 

  • Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
  • Attributes are covered since that's one of the things people are likely to want to change due to Perception now (in patch 2.0) modifying Accuracy instead of Deflection.
  • [On top of changing Attribute bonuses from resting in Caed Nua] I'm also retuning the inn bonuses so they almost all grant multiple benefits at lower value. e: And not only skill/attribute bonuses.
  • Deflection is still on Resolve. We're not making up for the reduction because Deflection tends to get really high on its own.

 

(I happen to agree with the latter.)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Few more tidbits from Josh on Something Awful:

  • Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
  • Attributes are covered since that's one of the things people are likely to want to change due to Perception now (in patch 2.0) modifying Accuracy instead of Deflection.
  • [On top of changing Attribute bonuses from resting in Caed Nua] I'm also retuning the inn bonuses so they almost all grant multiple benefits at lower value. e: And not only skill/attribute bonuses.
  • Deflection is still on Resolve. We're not making up for the reduction because Deflection tends to get really high on its own.
(I happen to agree with the latter.)

 

Can't say I disagree with the latter, but damn, that respec. The worst thing is that once it's done, it's done forever, and is unlikely to ever go away, come sequels or expansions. Casuals tend to throw a fit if you take their toys away once given.

 

But at least we'll never have to replay the game again. The choice of race and class has practically no effect in the narrative, and with respecs, we can just change our character to get all the options in every dialogue. So there's that. If the replay value was small before, it's virtually nil now.

Edited by Luckmann

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Few more tidbits from Josh on Something Awful:

 

  • Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
  • Attributes are covered since that's one of the things people are likely to want to change due to Perception now (in patch 2.0) modifying Accuracy instead of Deflection.
  • [On top of changing Attribute bonuses from resting in Caed Nua] I'm also retuning the inn bonuses so they almost all grant multiple benefits at lower value. e: And not only skill/attribute bonuses.
  • Deflection is still on Resolve. We're not making up for the reduction because Deflection tends to get really high on its own.

 

(I happen to agree with the latter.)

 

 

What does he mean by a laborious/time-consuming process? 

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I really don't get why some people hate retraining so much. If the expansion changes how attributes work, it's really almost necessary to let players respec if they want.

 

If you don't like it, don't use it. It's even a pure single player game, what do you care how often other players respec their characters? Oh right, they are casuals and that's bad per definition.

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What does he mean by a laborious/time-consuming process? 

 

You ever tried to make a new character in Mask of the Betrayer or Throne of Bhaal? It takes time and starts feeling like work after a while.

Edited by Sannom

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Few more tidbits from Josh on Something Awful:

 

  • Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
  • Attributes are covered since that's one of the things people are likely to want to change due to Perception now (in patch 2.0) modifying Accuracy instead of Deflection.
  • [On top of changing Attribute bonuses from resting in Caed Nua] I'm also retuning the inn bonuses so they almost all grant multiple benefits at lower value. e: And not only skill/attribute bonuses.
  • Deflection is still on Resolve. We're not making up for the reduction because Deflection tends to get really high on its own.

 

(I happen to agree with the latter.)

 

 

What does he mean by a laborious/time-consuming process? 

 

 

It's likely hyperbole, referring to the time it takes to go through the motions of levelling a character from 1 to 3 or 10 or 14 or whatever.


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But at least we'll never have to replay the game again. The choice of race and class has practically no effect in the narrative, and with respecs, we can just change our character to get all the options in every dialogue. So there's that. If the replay value was small before, it's virtually nil now.

 

 

 

It's likely hyperbole, referring to the time it takes to go through the motions of levelling a character from 1 to 3 or 10 or 14 or whatever.

 

 

...

 

inconceivable.jpg

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Is this another one of those "I don't know what words means so I'll accuse people of using words wrong"-things of yours, Strawnir? Because I think we grew tired of those about 6 months ago.


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oh, the hypocrisy. 

 

regardless, it is a good thing that an optional respec feature will be available with 2.0 and any further poe offerings.  shoulda' been included at release.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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oh, the hypocrisy

 

regardless, it is a good thing that an optional respec feature will be available with 2.0 and any further poe offerings.  shoulda' been included at release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Stop it. It's getting awkward for everyone, Strawnir. :ermm: Like a drunk uncle at a BBQ.


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oh, the hypocrisy

 

regardless, it is a good thing that an optional respec feature will be available with 2.0 and any further poe offerings.  shoulda' been included at release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Stop it. It's getting awkward for everyone, Strawnir. :ermm: Like a drunk uncle at a BBQ.

 

 

If you two don't stop flirting, I am going to throw up all over your shoes.

 

It will be unpleasant.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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oh, the hypocrisy

 

regardless, it is a good thing that an optional respec feature will be available with 2.0 and any further poe offerings.  shoulda' been included at release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Stop it. It's getting awkward for everyone, Strawnir. :ermm: Like a drunk uncle at a BBQ.

 

 

If you two don't stop flirting, I am going to throw up all over your shoes.

 

It will be unpleasant.

 

 

The joke's on you, I'm not wearing any shoes!

Edited by Luckmann
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Anyway.

 

 

  • Deflection is still on Resolve. We're not making up for the reduction because Deflection tends to get really high on its own.

 

Ugh. That is going to really hurt the viability of soloing with a tank.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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oh, the hypocrisy

 

regardless, it is a good thing that an optional respec feature will be available with 2.0 and any further poe offerings.  shoulda' been included at release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Stop it. It's getting awkward for everyone, Strawnir. :ermm: Like a drunk uncle at a BBQ.

 

why do you continue to you post definitions when doing so hurts you.  you still have no grasp o' strawman and when you tried posting definition o' hypothetical, you clear failed to read the entire definition. 

 

*shrug*

 

as we noted earlier, your reading comprehension is... suspect.  there is an obvious reason we posted not only the post in which you used "hyperbole," but your immediate preceding post.  maybe you can puzzle out the problem you created for yourself. 

 

you are comical obtuse, but we continue to try and help.

 

staying on-topic, we will observe that josh is posting with considerable frequency at SA after a bit o' a hiatus.  perhaps he finally has free time to do so?  pure conjecture, but we will take as a good sign for no other reason than wanting a good sign.

 

am also satisfied if resolve is the lone option for attribute buffing deflection.  pure tanks were, we suspect, never intended to be as functional invulnerable as they currently are.  seeing as how foes will suffer and benefit same as does the player from the changes to attributes, we suspect that a few battles will involve at least minor tactical changes.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am wearing newish magnanni loafers at the moment.  they ain't quite been broken in, so we would actual welcome an "accident" that would require us to grab the adidas cross-trainers from our gym bag. let us roll up our pants a bit first.


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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