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Update #99: Announcing the Expansion and Update 2.0

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is yet another example o' folks other than Gromnir identifying your error(s) and your refusal to recognize which side o' the monkey cage you is standing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

...you've degenerated into dissociative identity disorder? ermm.gif Getting genuinely worried for you here. If I knew who you were, I'd probably have called someone.

 

 

 

 

Baldur's Gate has no dialogue options based on stats, race or anything else, and still has lots of replay value.

That's not entirely accurate. Some options will not appear if CHA is too low, such as Viconia asking to join your party.

 

 

Others include Shar-Teel only joining a male PC, getting a +1 dagger in Candlekeep with Charisma 18, outwitting the Aboleth in the Underdark with Int 17, and so on and so forth.

 

BG1/2 really isn't the thing to make comparisons to for this, however, as PoE's stat-based dialogue options draw pretty clearly on Planescape: Torment. Given the way stats grew in PS:T, you can't exactly say they were a major source of replay value there, either. PS:T's only real narrative-dividing decision is "do you join the Xaositects?" But honestly, even that's pretty flimsy. Linear, story-based games of this type just don't have a lot of replay value, at least not in the traditional, "see all the content," sense. I think the big reason to replay PoE is the same as the big reason to replay PS:T - you want to read the story again. That's fine by me. Replay value is overrated.

 

About PS:T, though, let's be fair, because while the stats grew, the checks also did. PS:T:s real issue in that department was that WIS and INT was so much better and so much better represented in the game that it blew everything else out of the water.

 

And in terms of replay value, the choices was more what you did or how you did it, rather than what happened, and I think that was done extremely well. There's never been a game that's made me feel so utterly terrible and disgusted with myself more than PS:T.

 

 

Dak'kon. Damn, son.

 

 

*chuckle*

 

funny. however, we will observe that you are describing apes and not monkeys.

 

furthermore,

 

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/science-chimpanzees-orangutans-swim-dive-01319.html

 

HA! Good Fun!

First, he never said he was describing monkeys.

 

Second, the statement was that very few primates can swim. This is still true, even if some individual primates have been taught by other primates.

 

I wonder if an infant chimpanzee or orangutang will swim if you dump it in the water. Honest question. My bet is no, though.

Edited by Luckmann

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Oh snap.

 

It is pretty clearly a human-enabled behavior, but it's pretty remarkable that it was learned so quickly and with such ease. I suppose that's not unlike teaching chimps sign language, or bonobos basic computer use - they may not have the faculties to come up with the idea in the first place, but they can be taught.

 

Dang. That's super interesting.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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is yet another example o' folks other than Gromnir identifying your error(s) and your refusal to recognize which side o' the monkey cage you is standing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

...you've degenerated into dissociative identity disorder? ermm.gif Getting genuinely worried for you here. If I knew who you were, I'd probably have called someone.

 

 

 

 

Baldur's Gate has no dialogue options based on stats, race or anything else, and still has lots of replay value.

That's not entirely accurate. Some options will not appear if CHA is too low, such as Viconia asking to join your party.

 

 

Others include Shar-Teel only joining a male PC, getting a +1 dagger in Candlekeep with Charisma 18, outwitting the Aboleth in the Underdark with Int 17, and so on and so forth.

 

BG1/2 really isn't the thing to make comparisons to for this, however, as PoE's stat-based dialogue options draw pretty clearly on Planescape: Torment. Given the way stats grew in PS:T, you can't exactly say they were a major source of replay value there, either. PS:T's only real narrative-dividing decision is "do you join the Xaositects?" But honestly, even that's pretty flimsy. Linear, story-based games of this type just don't have a lot of replay value, at least not in the traditional, "see all the content," sense. I think the big reason to replay PoE is the same as the big reason to replay PS:T - you want to read the story again. That's fine by me. Replay value is overrated.

 

About PS:T, though, let's be fair, because while the stats grew, the checks also did. PS:T:s real issue in that department was that WIS and INT was so much better and so much better represented in the game that it blew everything else out of the water.

 

And in terms of replay value, the choices was more what you did or how you did it, rather than what happened, and I think that was done extremely well. There's never been a game that's made me feel so utterly terrible and disgusted with myself more than PS:T.

 

 

Dak'kon. Damn, son.

 

 

*chuckle*

 

funny. however, we will observe that you are describing apes and not monkeys.

 

furthermore,

 

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/science-chimpanzees-orangutans-swim-dive-01319.html

 

HA! Good Fun!

First, he never said he was describing monkeys.

 

Second, the statement was that very few primates can swim. This is still true, even if some individual primates have been taught by other primates.

 

I wonder if an infant chimpanzee or orangutang will swim if you dump it in the water. Honest question. My bet is no, though.

 

*eye-roll*

 

1) he quoted our "monkey cage" post in his response.

 

2)  am thinking gk is adult enough to get that we were joking with him, just as he were with us.

 

how old do you need to get on this ride anyways?

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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is yet another example o' folks other than Gromnir identifying your error(s) and your refusal to recognize which side o' the monkey cage you is standing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

...you've degenerated into dissociative identity disorder? ermm.gif Getting genuinely worried for you here. If I knew who you were, I'd probably have called someone.

 

 

 

 

Baldur's Gate has no dialogue options based on stats, race or anything else, and still has lots of replay value.

That's not entirely accurate. Some options will not appear if CHA is too low, such as Viconia asking to join your party.

 

 

Others include Shar-Teel only joining a male PC, getting a +1 dagger in Candlekeep with Charisma 18, outwitting the Aboleth in the Underdark with Int 17, and so on and so forth.

 

BG1/2 really isn't the thing to make comparisons to for this, however, as PoE's stat-based dialogue options draw pretty clearly on Planescape: Torment. Given the way stats grew in PS:T, you can't exactly say they were a major source of replay value there, either. PS:T's only real narrative-dividing decision is "do you join the Xaositects?" But honestly, even that's pretty flimsy. Linear, story-based games of this type just don't have a lot of replay value, at least not in the traditional, "see all the content," sense. I think the big reason to replay PoE is the same as the big reason to replay PS:T - you want to read the story again. That's fine by me. Replay value is overrated.

 

About PS:T, though, let's be fair, because while the stats grew, the checks also did. PS:T:s real issue in that department was that WIS and INT was so much better and so much better represented in the game that it blew everything else out of the water.

 

And in terms of replay value, the choices was more what you did or how you did it, rather than what happened, and I think that was done extremely well. There's never been a game that's made me feel so utterly terrible and disgusted with myself more than PS:T.

 

 

Dak'kon. Damn, son.

 

 

*chuckle*

 

funny. however, we will observe that you are describing apes and not monkeys.

 

furthermore,

 

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/science-chimpanzees-orangutans-swim-dive-01319.html

 

HA! Good Fun!

First, he never said he was describing monkeys.

 

Second, the statement was that very few primates can swim. This is still true, even if some individual primates have been taught by other primates.

 

I wonder if an infant chimpanzee or orangutang will swim if you dump it in the water. Honest question. My bet is no, though.

 

*eye-roll*

 

1) he quoted our "monkey cage" post in his response.

 

2)  am thinking gk is adult enough to get that we were joking with him, just as he were with us.

 

how old do you need to get on this ride anyways?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

1) Yes he did. This does not imply that he thought he was talking about monkeys.

 

2) Hard to tell. It's the kind of argument you'd make, after all.

 

Getting crotchety in your advanced age? I'd take a jab at you, but dementia is no laughing matter, and you honestly, really have gone downhill, man.

 

 

Oh snap.

 

It is pretty clearly a human-enabled behavior, but it's pretty remarkable that it was learned so quickly and with such ease. I suppose that's not unlike teaching chimps sign language, or bonobos basic computer use - they may not have the faculties to come up with the idea in the first place, but they can be taught.

 

Dang. That's super interesting.

 

 

It is interesting, but at the same time, I'm not very surprised. As far as I know, there's never been anything specifically preventing them from swimming in any way. They just have a strong instinctual aversion towards it, probably because they're not good at it - odds are they'd just up and drown in turbulent waters. If anything, it's human's affinity for water that's super-interesting.

 

We can swim practically from birth and as a species are crazy about water and submerging ourselves in it. It's definitely one of the reasons we became so widespread and flourished, while others were left behind, but it's an odd trait to have, considering that at the end of the day, we're not that great swimmers either, and also have a tendency to drown in turbulent waters - but we also have the faculties necessary to judge our own capabilities in that regard, so.. /shrug?


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Anyone with me in requesting a Luckmann-Gromnir subforum?

 

(Hopefully Cantousent won't paint things black there, as well.)

  • Like 7

Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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Not hyperbole. I was being serious. The choice of race and class has practically no effect in the narrative, and with respects, we can just change our character to get all the options in every dialogue. This does diminish replay value.

What Gromnir said.

You're being utterly ridiculous. Just so we're clear: You didn't just claim that it would diminish replay value, which I guess a case could be made for, but that it would render replay value "virtually nil", specifically because one can respec to get all the options in every dialogue. If you don't see how utterly absurd that is, then I don't really know what to say.

 

 

And saying that respeccing is laborious and time-consuming is hyperbole; respeccing in PoE is incredibly fast. It can already be done via console, by means of the IEMod, and even that is likely to take longer simply because of the added work of mashing the keyboard, whereas respeccing in PoE is likely the press of a button and a some shekels trading hands.

Wait... Do you seriously think that it is the activation of the respec mechanism he referred to as time-consuming? Are you daft? He was obviously talking about the process of levelling up, which does indeed take time if you don't already know exactly what you're going for. It's a subjective matter obviously, so at most he can be accused of generalising a bit.

 

 

 

Why are Soulbound weapons considered as a more important or integral mechanic than the player characters themselves? A character or a person can be reforged, throwing out it's unique appearance and effects, and unique illustration, in a manner of speaking, to fit into any idea of pre-existing Focus/Spec categories.

 

A weapon that is magically bonded to the soul to grow in power over time is less malleable than the soul that has already grown in power over time?

 

After all, with a reforge feature, if you don't like it, don't use it. happy0203.gif

You are being obtuse. He is referring to the unique artwork, lore and design in general that is associated with each weapon. Allowing reforging would require either a vast amount of additional work, for very little pay-off, or scaling back on the uniqueness and making them rather bland.

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I would like it if intelligence affected interrupt durations as well. I want to be able to lock down enemies especially casters.


Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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am agreeing that interrupt is a combat factor that is easily ignored.  we do not overmuch worry about buffing concentration to avoid interrupts, and we surely do not build a character around an interrupt concept.  we get far more payoff from doing more damage via might or increased rate o' attack from dex than we get from focusing on interrupt to delay enemy attacks.  however, intelligence is already a relative strong attribute. am understanding that some folks hate speaking o' balance, but the developers, at the very least, consider it important.  therefore, we do not see adding an additional quality to intelligence as being in-line with design philosophies o' poe.

 

switch concentration to con and add a second interrupt value to resolve?

 

dunno.

 

regardless, we do admit that interrupt is a seeming wasted quality.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Interrupt is a minor priority for rangers and some rogues, and I've seen claims that barbarians get some mileage out of it. But I think that's mostly the byproduct of many pure DPS types running out of useful stats after Might and Dexterity.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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I'm running a rogue designed for this purpose and it's just not doing the trick.


Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
---
Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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Yeah, you can't rely on Interrupt as your primary gimmick. The whole point is just that it delays the opponent's action by 0.5-1 seconds, so it's less of a deciding factor and more of an unquantifiable situational adjustment.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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I'm running a rogue designed for this purpose and it's just not doing the trick.

yeah, am admitting that when josh changed the math for interrupt in build 480 (?), we could not get an "interrupt build" to work for us.  the bb rogue had perception that were better than anything Gromnir could get outta a custom built companion, so we would create situations wherein our bb rogue were one-on-one v. the skaen cultist caster/healers.  now admittedly, at the time, the interrupting blows talent were broken and doing nothing, which we complained 'bout.  however, with an extreme high perception, we were able to generate, if we were lucky, 40% interrupt rate, thanks mostly to high crit rate.  the thing is, the interrupted caster were barely slowed.  heal spells have a fast cast time, so the interrupt had an almost imperceptible impact on a caster.

 

now, against a single ogre, we could generate something close to a functional stunlock.  similarly, against a gun-haver opponent, we would see genuine results from interrupt.  however, against most casters, or any opponent with even average attack rates, interrupt were offering little in the way of results. a high crit character against a foe with a slow attack rate will see results.  is... limited.

 

Yeah, you can't rely on Interrupt as your primary gimmick. The whole point is just that it delays the opponent's action by 0.5-1 seconds, so it's less of a deciding factor and more of an unquantifiable situational adjustment.

well, that's the problem, yes?  why is interrupt disproportional ineffectual compared to the value of increased damage from might or the increased attack rate from dex? that being said, 2.0 changes the equation.  assuming we still get interrupt from perception, we will also be getting accuracy enhancement.  the extreme limited usefulness o' interrupt cannot/should not be considered in a vacuum.  

 

still, the interrupting blows talent needs an adjustment if it is going to offer value.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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You're being utterly ridiculous. Just so we're clear: You didn't just claim that it would diminish replay value, which I guess a case could be made for, but that it would render replay value "virtually nil", specifically because one can respec to get all the options in every dialogue. If you don't see how utterly absurd that is, then I don't really know what to say.

It's not absurd, it's the truth. Replay value is already quite low in PoE, and Attribute Scores are basically the only relevant qualifiers. If you can change Attribute Scores at will, those qualifiers cease to matter. Not rocket science. Combined with the fact that PoE has some real issues in dialogues as to what you can and cannot even attempt entirely based on your Attributes, there's some good incentives in there to do it, to boot.

 

Wait... Do you seriously think that it is the activation of the respec mechanism he referred to as time-consuming? Are you daft? He was obviously talking about the process of levelling up, which does indeed take time if you don't already know exactly what you're going for. It's a subjective matter obviously, so at most he can be accused of generalising a bit.

No, I never made that argument. I was obviously talking about the process of levelling up, which is definitely not a laborious or time-consuming process. Like AndreaColombo, I think you've equated tedious and boring to laborious and time-consuming. One is true, the other is not.

 

Have you actually taken the time to respec a level 12 character from 1 to 12? I've done it, many, many, many times. First during Beta, and then a few times in the full game, for testing purposes (the former to test/check Abilities, the latter using ChangeClass).

 

It's not some long and arduous process. Half the levels, for many of the classes, you don't even do *anything*, and you don't even have to jump between the levelling screen and the game focus. You only place Skill Points once; the final level you qualify for. What is supposed to be the time-consuming and laborious process, exactly?

 

You are being obtuse. He is referring to the unique artwork, lore and design in general that is associated with each weapon. Allowing reforging would require either a vast amount of additional work, for very little pay-off, or scaling back on the uniqueness and making them rather bland.

Not obtuse, I was referring to the same thing. He didn't refer to the vast amount of additional work (especially since it's been hinted at that we are the ones forging it to begin with; reforging would simply be a reset). If it was a workload issue, that would be a good argument in the interest of not being hypocritical, but that's not the argument that was raised.

 

For whatever reason, it is more important to keep the soulbound weapons un-reforgable, than the actual characters. Personally, I tend to find the characters of a game far more important than the weapons, but perhaps we simply prioritize differently. Either way, it's a valid argument to make. There's no solid reason not to accept reforging of soulbound weapons, or any enchanted weapons, really, if characters themselves are so malleable they can be reshapen at the local inn.

 

I would like it if intelligence affected interrupt durations as well. I want to be able to lock down enemies especially casters.

I'm not so sure. I think that Interrupt is a bit of a forgotten mechanic in many ways, but I'm not sure Intellect would be a good choice. My ongoing suggestion has it put on Perception and Might, I think.

 

The idea of having an Attribute that reduces Interrupt (on you) just occurred to me, though, but I can't imagine that being on anything other than Constitution or Resolve (Resolve might be a good choice, though).

 

 

I'm running a rogue designed for this purpose and it's just not doing the trick.

yeah, am admitting that when josh changed the math for interrupt in build 480 (?), we could not get an "interrupt build" to work for us.  the bb rogue had perception that were better than anything Gromnir could get outta a custom built companion, so we would create situations wherein our bb rogue were one-on-one v. the skaen cultist caster/healers.  now admittedly, at the time, the interrupting blows talent were broken and doing nothing, which we complained 'bout.  however, with an extreme high perception, we were able to generate, if we were lucky, 40% interrupt rate, thanks mostly to high crit rate.  the thing is, the interrupted caster were barely slowed.  heal spells have a fast cast time, so the interrupt had an almost imperceptible impact on a caster.

 

now, against a single ogre, we could generate something close to a functional stunlock.  similarly, against a gun-haver opponent, we would see genuine results from interrupt.  however, against most casters, or any opponent with even average attack rates, interrupt were offering little in the way of results. a high crit character against a foe with a slow attack rate will see results.  is... limited.

 

Pre-v480, specifically between v435 and v480, I think, Interrupt was utterly, utterly broken, though, to the point where Perception was still the champion of all Attributes, despite losing all that Accuracy (not that it needed to, considering that Accuracy was fixed in v435). In v435, it was laughably simple to create stunlock builds that simply locked down Elder Bears and Ogres and caused them to slide around on their rumps. And the math was broken, it was never meant to be, so it was more of a bugfix in v480 than a change.

 

But if +Interrupt was split between two Attributes and more "pumpable" if you dedicated yourself to those two Attributes, I could see stunlock-ish builds being viable again, which I'd be fine with, since it would be more than just one Attribute. Like Gkthellar said, focusing on Interrupt as the character's gimmick isn't really viable, and I think it actually should be, like an annoying buzzing bee, a dirty fighter kickin' balls and throwing sand.

  • Like 1

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Got so excited, did a double post...

Edited by rheingold

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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Please guys, (Luckman and gromnir) why don't you get married already? It's long past the courting stage...

  • Like 1

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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it were a myth that one could create functional stun-lock with the bad math interrupt scheme.  again, we tested.  so did others. sensuki showed a nice video claiming to show stunlock, but what he actual had were a monk attacking ogres and elder bears who were disabled by pre-release slicken.  there were other such examples o' stunlock, but it called for having multiple skeletons or you entire party attacking one foe, which were not a particular viable tactic for most combats.  even the bad math o' a 20 perception player going against a 10 resolve foe would result in less than 70% success rate o' interrupt, which 'course required you to at least hit first. as gk notes, the duration o' interrupt is short, often too short to be meaningful against foes with quick casts or attacks.  

 

the only time interrupt were actual useful were when the math were broken.  it weren't actual overpowered at that time, but folks saw all the successful interrupts in their combat log and believed that it were op.  the fact is that even in the short-lived bad math time, interrupt were having limited efficacy in actual combat.  stun-lock o' slow attacking opponents were possible IF you had a high perception character or IF you used many characters or summons to attack a single foe.  

 

when it were broken were the only time interrupt were useful.

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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it were a myth that one could create functional stun-lock with the bad math interrupt scheme.  again, we tested.  so did others. sensuki showed a nice video claiming to show stunlock, but what he actual had were a monk attacking ogres and elder bears who were disabled by pre-release slicken.  there were other such examples o' stunlock, but it called for having multiple skeletons or you entire party attacking one foe, which were not a particular viable tactic for most combats.  even the bad math o' a 20 perception player going against a 10 resolve foe would result in less than 70% success rate o' interrupt, which 'course required you to at least hit first. as gk notes, the duration o' interrupt is short, often too short to be meaningful against foes with quick casts or attacks.  

 

the only time interrupt were actual useful were when the math were broken.  it weren't actual overpowered at that time, but folks saw all the successful interrupts in their combat log and believed that it were op.  the fact is that even in the short-lived bad math time, interrupt were having limited efficacy in actual combat.  stun-lock o' slow attacking opponents were possible IF you had a high perception character or IF you used many characters or summons to attack a single foe.  

 

when it were broken were the only time interrupt were useful.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Uhm.. I don't know how to say this, but.. uhm..

 

 

No?

 

If you watch the whole video, you see that while yes, there is an initial Slicken (and then another?), the Ogre is quite clearly and obviously completely stunlocked, just when he says that he is showing it ("All those Interrupts" or something; "Lawl that interrupt"?) at around  1:10.

 

The interrupt is short, yes, but let's not play it off; the Interrupt bug in v345 was awful, and made it virtually impossible to properly test the Attributes. Together with the fact that Dexterity worked backwards was one of the main reasons the current Attribute Bonuses were never able to be properly tested by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I support an empowering of Interrupt, perhaps even by having Interrupt on more than one Attribute, but you're not doing the argument any favours by painting Sensuki as dishonest, suggesting that he was "claiming to show stunlock" but "actual" it was just showing of enemies being disabled by pre-release slicken. He clearly showed that Interrupt was bugged, how it was bugged, and it was confirmed that it was bugged, and the bug was fixed for release.

 

Which is no doubt part of the reason why Interrupt feels now like it's underperforming; it never had time to be tuned for release. It was patched just before release, and was never actually tuned.

 

Something I'd like to see would be for Interrupts to stack in some manner, although not at it's full power, so that multiple interrupts in short succession actually adds to the total length of the interrupt. Could be hard to tune, though, and should probably have an upper limit on it.

 

Edit: My idea being that a stunlock-ish build should be viable. I don't think anyone actually wants stunlocking to really, really work. Having a good stunner in the party (no pun intended.. Durance) should be a viable, good thing to have, but it shouldn't be able to lock someone down completely by just standing there, unless it's against a seriously terrible opponent.

 

This makes me feel that the idea of a -Interrupt Ability Bonus could be even better, to have enemies that stand apart that cannot be readily stunned, and enemies that have really poor, say, Resolve, would actually get longer Interrupts on them. Or anything to that effect.

Edited by Luckmann

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*sigh*

 

the battle were made a joke 'cause o' slicken, not interrupt.  hell, even sensuki backed off that point when we noted the slicken use. and again, we already observed the limited efficacy o' interrupt.  we noted how even current, the interrupt can be effective when targeting slow attacks such as ogres and firearms users.  use slicken so that you can go solo on an ogre?  

 

"now, against a single ogre, we could generate something close to a functional stunlock.  similarly, against a gun-haver opponent, we would see genuine results from interrupt.  however, against most casters, or any opponent with even average attack rates, interrupt were offering little in the way of results. a high crit character against a foe with a slow attack rate will see results.  is... limited."
 
you use video that illustrates our point (s).  (edit: the 1:10 mark you find compelling  further illustrates our point about using multiple party members on a single foe to generate functional interrupt.)
 

this is a reading comprehension issue we s'pose.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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*sigh*

 

the battle were made a joke 'cause o' slicken, not interrupt.  hell, even sensuki backed off that point when we noted the slicken use. and again, we already observed the limited efficacy o' interrupt.  we noted how even current, the interrupt can be effective when targeting slow attacks such as ogres and firearms users.  use slicken so that you can go solo on an ogre?  

 

"now, against a single ogre, we could generate something close to a functional stunlock.  similarly, against a gun-haver opponent, we would see genuine results from interrupt.  however, against most casters, or any opponent with even average attack rates, interrupt were offering little in the way of results. a high crit character against a foe with a slow attack rate will see results.  is... limited."
 
you use video that illustrates our point (s).  (edit: the 1:10 mark you find compelling  further illustrates our point about using multiple party members on a single foe to generate functional interrupt.)
 

this is a reading comprehension issue we s'pose.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Huh, well fair enough, I suppose. I'm not going to pretend that I saw that discussion, and I could be mistaken. I just saw the video and took it at face value, and I know that Interrupts were utterly broken in BBv435 (on virtue of having played BBv435 myself; I still have it lying around, I think). But to me, that still looks like a complete stunlock of the Ogre, completely independent of the earlier Slicken.

 

It's completely irrelevant if the stunlock requires multiple people or not. I never said that the problems with overpowered Interrupt and the BBv435 bug hinged on a single character. Part of the problem was that even characters that weren't specced for stunlocking contributed greatly to the mass interrupt.

 

It's a reading comprehension issue, I suppose.


t50aJUd.jpg

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You're being utterly ridiculous. Just so we're clear: You didn't just claim that it would diminish replay value, which I guess a case could be made for, but that it would render replay value "virtually nil", specifically because one can respec to get all the options in every dialogue. If you don't see how utterly absurd that is, then I don't really know what to say.

It's not absurd, it's the truth. Replay value is already quite low in PoE, and Attribute Scores are basically the only relevant qualifiers. If you can change Attribute Scores at will, those qualifiers cease to matter. Not rocket science. Combined with the fact that PoE has some real issues in dialogues as to what you can and cannot even attempt entirely based on your Attributes, there's some good incentives in there to do it, to boot.

 

 Your way of playing the game is not the only way.

I play with unqualified interactions set to hidden. Respeccing multiple times for every conversation on the off chance that I missed something interesting would be utterly ridiculous. Not to mention that I'm roleplayng a specific character, so I won't want to try options that make no sense for my character.

Exploring every dialogue option is also not the only reason to replay the game. Some people enjoy replaying with different classes and party compositions.

That you are so completely oblivious to the experiences of others is rather worrying.

 

Btw, claiming that it can be done "at will" is dishonest at best. The screenshot clearly shows that the retrain button is part of the Inn UI, so it's not as simple as loading to a point just before the dialogue. For dialogues outside the cities that alone makes it prohibitively tedious in my opinion.

 

 

Wait... Do you seriously think that it is the activation of the respec mechanism he referred to as time-consuming? Are you daft? He was obviously talking about the process of levelling up, which does indeed take time if you don't already know exactly what you're going for. It's a subjective matter obviously, so at most he can be accused of generalising a bit.

No, I never made that argument. I was obviously talking about the process of levelling up, which is definitely not a laborious or time-consuming process. Like AndreaColombo, I think you've equated tedious and boring to laborious and time-consuming. One is true, the other is not.

 

Have you actually taken the time to respec a level 12 character from 1 to 12? I've done it, many, many, many times. First during Beta, and then a few times in the full game, for testing purposes (the former to test/check Abilities, the latter using ChangeClass).

 

It's not some long and arduous process. Half the levels, for many of the classes, you don't even do *anything*, and you don't even have to jump between the levelling screen and the game focus. You only place Skill Points once; the final level you qualify for. What is supposed to be the time-consuming and laborious process, exactly?

 

*Ahem*: "whereas respeccing in PoE is likely the press of a button and a some shekels trading hands."

I just assumed that wasn't hyperbole either. rolleyes.gif

 

You've done it many, many, many, many, many times going all the way back to the beta... Do you seriously not get that your familiarity with the system is a factor here and that the experiences of others may differ?

 

 

You are being obtuse. He is referring to the unique artwork, lore and design in general that is associated with each weapon. Allowing reforging would require either a vast amount of additional work, for very little pay-off, or scaling back on the uniqueness and making them rather bland.

Not obtuse, I was referring to the same thing. He didn't refer to the vast amount of additional work (especially since it's been hinted at that we are the ones forging it to begin with; reforging would simply be a reset). If it was a workload issue, that would be a good argument in the interest of not being hypocritical, but that's not the argument that was raised.

 

For whatever reason, it is more important to keep the soulbound weapons un-reforgable, than the actual characters. Personally, I tend to find the characters of a game far more important than the weapons, but perhaps we simply prioritize differently. Either way, it's a valid argument to make. There's no solid reason not to accept reforging of soulbound weapons, or any enchanted weapons, really, if characters themselves are so malleable they can be reshapen at the local inn.

 

 

Oh ffs. The conversation is about reforging the weapon into a different weapon type. It's not just a simple reset.

 

Since you seem to have trouble remembering what was said, here it is again: "We are not going to implement a system to reforge a soulbound weapon into another type, throwing out its unique appearance and effects, unique icon, and unique illustration, just to force the player to fit it into their pre-existing Focus/Spec categories."

 

Resource allocation is always a concern for Sawyer. You should really know this by now.

 

You think characters are so important that respeccing to explore every dialogue option is something you consider to be reasonable. :rolleyes:

 

"There's no solid reason not to accept reforging of soulbound weapons"

 

You just, as in the previous paragraph, acknowledged that resource allocation is a valid reason.

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Can we get an update on the expansion? Even if the update is an estimate, like the expansion will be out in the next month-ish?

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Can we get an update on the expansion? Even if the update is an estimate, like the expansion will be out in the next month-ish?

Hear hear.

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Indeed. Any information would be nice. "Soon" is terribad. "Probably late this year" is preferable even if it has to be pushed back even further.


"Walk away, before you get hurt." [benevolent] - Luma Akasha

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I think they will lift more information on Gamescom, but that is another two weeks without new information. ;(

I finally want to play this wonderfui game, but now that there´s a patch on the horizon the wating will continue....

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