An Honest but Harsh Review on the Setting

[rjshae]

 And there's still plate armor, which proved it's uselessness in the battle of Crecy in 1346 against long bows.

 

Well not quite; the effectiveness of the longbow against plate armor remains a point of some debate. Where the longbow proved effective at Crécy was against the unarmored horse used to transport the heavily armored knights. But we don't even see mounted knights in PoE, so massed warfare could be quite different in this setting.

[abaris]

 

 And there's still plate armor, which proved it's uselessness in the battle of Crecy in 1346 against long bows.

 

Well not quite; the effectiveness of the longbow against plate armor remains a point of some debate. Where the longbow proved effective at Crécy was against the unarmored horse used to transport the heavily armored knights. But we don't even see mounted knights in PoE, so massed warfare could be quite different in this setting.

 

 

 

 

My point is, the game features a mixture of at least three centuries of European culture and weaponry with added fantasy elements of course. So, nailing it to a particular period in earth history doesn't quite fit the bill.

[Elerond]

 

 

It doesn't matter about the stinking options. What part of that don't you get? The problem I have is that the profanity doesn't fit.

Profanity fits fine. It is consistent with style that they use in other conversations around the game. I don't see how it don't fit in game's setting.

 

If you're playing the game for the first time, how would you know what that style is? I've got no problem with profanity in the game. Just with the way it's used. At least let it make some sense. Complete strangers don't walk up to each other, start talking then all of a sudden start swearing. That's poor writing. It's also poor writing that the whole option isn't expanded on. Aloth claims a misunderstanding, you choose that option for your character and then the whole conversation dies. Nothing more is said about it. Then it's back to normal conversation and either having Aloth join up with you or going your separate ways. When your character doesn't swear at all before that situation and swears very little after it then that one conversation is out of place. You can't roleplay a character who constantly swears if he isn't constantly swearing.

 

If you play game first time then in that point of time you can't anyway judge if it fits in the game, so it doesn't matter.

 

Way it is used is fitting because it just crude alternative of insult that was used by Aloth second personality which your character don't know existing in that point of time. It isn't outburst that comes from nowhere, it is phrase that is used by your character to emphasis the point that Aloth insulted that man. Conversation dies because Aloth don't want talk about it more and tiers conversation to elsewhere and your character don't care enough to continue. This is because there is limits on how much conversation options developers can offer for the player. As I said previously it is just flavor option that gives you to play more crude character. Fact that your ability show similar crudeness in other conversations is limited is not fault of this option but how those other conversations are written. Although I would argue that you can play quite crude character that uses profanities where they fit in sentences without using them as additional emphasis, like "this ****ing game don't ****ing offer ****ing conversation options that I **** want ****!!!", but they are instead used in places where they naturally fit if you want to be crude but not use profanities as only to make your sentences sound more aggressive, like that "You did tell that one man to go **** his sister.", where profanity is where it should be if it is used as verb in this case. To make this sentence to use said profanity in way as it is used in modern language in those "locker room conversations" it would look more like "You ****ing told that ****ing man to, ****, to go **** his ****ing sister ****ing ****." And if they would had offered such option I would agree that it probably would not fit in the game.

[Grinch]

 

 

 

It doesn't matter about the stinking options. What part of that don't you get? The problem I have is that the profanity doesn't fit.

Profanity fits fine. It is consistent with style that they use in other conversations around the game. I don't see how it don't fit in game's setting.

 

If you're playing the game for the first time, how would you know what that style is? I've got no problem with profanity in the game. Just with the way it's used. At least let it make some sense. Complete strangers don't walk up to each other, start talking then all of a sudden start swearing. That's poor writing. It's also poor writing that the whole option isn't expanded on. Aloth claims a misunderstanding, you choose that option for your character and then the whole conversation dies. Nothing more is said about it. Then it's back to normal conversation and either having Aloth join up with you or going your separate ways. When your character doesn't swear at all before that situation and swears very little after it then that one conversation is out of place. You can't roleplay a character who constantly swears if he isn't constantly swearing.

 

If you play game first time then in that point of time you can't anyway judge if it fits in the game, so it doesn't matter.

 

Way it is used is fitting because it just crude alternative of insult that was used by Aloth second personality which your character don't know existing in that point of time. It isn't outburst that comes from nowhere, it is phrase that is used by your character to emphasis the point that Aloth insulted that man. Conversation dies because Aloth don't want talk about it more and tiers conversation to elsewhere and your character don't care enough to continue. This is because there is limits on how much conversation options developers can offer for the player. As I said previously it is just flavor option that gives you to play more crude character. Fact that your ability show similar crudeness in other conversations is limited is not fault of this option but how those other conversations are written. Although I would argue that you can play quite crude character that uses profanities where they fit in sentences without using them as additional emphasis, like "this ****ing game don't ****ing offer ****ing conversation options that I **** want ****!!!", but they are instead used in places where they naturally fit if you want to be crude but not use profanities as only to make your sentences sound more aggressive, like that "You did tell that one man to go **** his sister.", where profanity is where it should be if it is used as verb in this case. To make this sentence to use said profanity in way as it is used in modern language in those "locker room conversations" it would look more like "You ****ing told that ****ing man to, ****, to go **** his ****ing sister ****ing ****." And if they would had offered such option I would agree that it probably would not fit in the game.

 

You don't have to play the whole game to know if a profane dialogue option fits. Aloth was the one being crude. Not your character. The option doesn't fit because there's no swearing up to that point by your character. It's a pretty normal conversation between Aloth and the character. Then out of the blue your character has the option to respond with a profane remark. How do you roleplay a crude, swearing character who only swears once? It's poor writing. It gets even worse because that particular option leads to a dead end conversation. Aloth doesn't explain the misunderstanding or his desire not discuss it any further. It's a dead end.

 

You proved my point by saying the lack of crudeness in other conversations is a result of how they're written. It shows that the crude option is out place and doesn't fit. As I said it's poor writing. If you're going to give players the ability to roleplay a character who is crude and swears then you have to give players an option to do it more than once. The way it is now, it's looks like it's a juvenile attempt just to put profanity into the game. I'll also repeat what I said earlier. Nobody walks up to or helps a complete stranger and just starts using profanity. With friends, family and co-workers it's possible but not strangers. If you do that with strangers people tend to look upon you as a person with a mental problem or it may even get you punched in the mouth. Even people who use profanity on a regular basis pretty much know when it's acceptable and when it isn't. Thanks for helping me prove my point.

[Elerond]

You don't have to play the whole game to know if a profane dialogue option fits. Aloth was the one being crude. Not your character. The option doesn't fit because there's no swearing up to that point by your character.

 

You proved my point by saying the lack of crudeness in other conversations is a result of how they're written. It shows that the crude option is out place and doesn't fit.

 

It is your decision do it fit for your character, it is direct and it no-nonsense option that fits for multiple different characters. If you can't see that then I would say that problem is in you not in that option. It isn't option for character who has habit use profanities to emphasis everything they say, but it is option for character who don't not use them when there is reason.

 

I would argue that lack of profanities in other conversations don't mean that they aren't crude, they just don't have profanities, which can be problem for some characters as using profanities is habit for many people. But lack of those options don't make that option any less fitting, but lack of those options make game not support characters that use much more profanities.

 

Every option fits that player finds to be fitting for their character, so you to prove your point that option is not fitting you need to prove that any of the players of the game haven't find that option to be the one that their character would choose in that situation. And because it is option that I have found to be fitting to some of my characters, I would argue that you can't do that .

 

EDIT: To point out you can be quite crude in other conversations even though you don't use profanities, like for Calisca's sister, who is pregnant, you can say to her, after she start crying when you tell her that Calisca is dead, this "Quit your sniveling. How are going to raise a child if you're this weak?" and this after she ask you to bring her potion from Ranga (who is some sort of midwife) that sort that would prevent her child to born as hollowborn  you can say "Ranga? The aumaua? Last I saw her she was choking on her own blood.". And if you look bit more you will find lots of conversation options that are crude and that character that chooses to use them probably would also choose the option with profanity in Aloth's conversation.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Elerond

[Jolanthus]

Walking up to somebody you don't know, carrying a conversation with them and then all of sudden starting to swear just doesn't make sense. 

 

 

You haven't been to Australia have you? People do this to me all the time.

[abaris]

 

Walking up to somebody you don't know, carrying a conversation with them and then all of sudden starting to swear just doesn't make sense. 

 

 

You haven't been to Australia have you? People do this to me all the time.

 

 

Happens in Austria too. Just today I happened to have such a lovely conversation on the street. Not directed at me, but about a common experience we shared. Choice words were used.

[Grinch]

 

 

Walking up to somebody you don't know, carrying a conversation with them and then all of sudden starting to swear just doesn't make sense. 

 

 

You haven't been to Australia have you? People do this to me all the time.

 

 

Happens in Austria too. Just today I happened to have such a lovely conversation on the street. Not directed at me, but about a common experience we shared. Choice words were used.

 

Never said it doesn't ever happen. I said it doesn't make sense and normal people don't act that way. It's a pretty good way to get punched in the mouth or even worse.

[FlintlockJazz]

Are you guys seriously arguing about swear words now?  Really? 

 

*Flips the switch*

 

"In one of the countless billions of galaxies in the universe lies a medium-sized star. And one of its satellites, a green and insignificant planet, is now dead."

[Rosveen]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walking up to somebody you don't know, carrying a conversation with them and then all of sudden starting to swear just doesn't make sense.

 

You haven't been to Australia have you? People do this to me all the time.

Happens in Austria too. Just today I happened to have such a lovely conversation on the street. Not directed at me, but about a common experience we shared. Choice words were used.

Never said it doesn't ever happen. I said it doesn't make sense and normal people don't act that way. It's a pretty good way to get punched in the mouth or even worse.

So you're telling me your polite and well-mannered companions who dislike foul language are eager and willing to assault a complete stranger on the street? You live in an interesting place.

[Krajzen]

I expected a serious setting review and I have discovered these ten words are enough for some people to enjoy very good game significantly less

 

by the way, I have always hated Baldur's Gate (D&Ds???) custom of mixing Tolkien-style fantasy names with Fantasy Class B English Names. Sword Coast, Candlekeep, Trademeet etc. sound super retarded for me, I cannot imagine places being called like that in real world. Just smashing two random words against each other and done. This is a part of 'classic roleplays' I could never accept because it was a bit immersion breaking for me. PoE's naming, with cities like Defiance Bay, somehow feels more serious and making sense for me. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

 

Fampyr is a bit silly word but I can live with tiny differences like these and I certainly cannot understand someone rating setting 'I very like' at 3/10 just because of so tiny things. This is not a 'harsh review', this is 'tiny details which annoy me'.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Krajzen

[Fardragon]

 

by the way, I have always hated Baldur's Gate (D&Ds???) custom of mixing Tolkien-style fantasy names with Fantasy Class B English Names. Sword Coast, Candlekeep, Trademeet etc. sound super retarded for me, I cannot imagine places being called like that in real world. Just smashing two random words against each other and done. This is a part of 'classic roleplays' I could never accept because it was a bit immersion breaking for me. PoE's naming, with cities like Defiance Bay, somehow feels more serious and making sense for me. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

 

Sure, that would never happen in the real world...

 

Now I'm just off to visit my parents, who live in Blackpool. On the way I will stop in and visit my aunt, who live in Thornton, near Southport. I hope the traffic round Guildford isn't too bad...

[Amentep]

Reminds me of Barefoot, Kentucky.

 

Kentucky also has a "Thousandsticks" and "Topmost" amid many, many colorful placenames ("Big Bone Lick State Park")

[Nakia]

Hazard, Ky.  High Rock Road.  Coldiron.  Coal Company Road.

[Eisenheinrich]

I mostly like the setting. Mostly. Not so fond of Defiance Bay, especially First Fires and Copperlane. Don't like the design and the layout of the map there. Hands down, Ondras Gift is the best part there, followed by Heritage Hill. Everything else looks too broad and empty. Overall, I liked Twin Elms more. 

[Varana]

 

by the way, I have always hated Baldur's Gate (D&Ds???) custom of mixing Tolkien-style fantasy names with Fantasy Class B English Names. Sword Coast, Candlekeep, Trademeet etc. sound super retarded for me, I cannot imagine places being called like that in real world. Just smashing two random words against each other and done. This is a part of 'classic roleplays' I could never accept because it was a bit immersion breaking for me. PoE's naming, with cities like Defiance Bay, somehow feels more serious and making sense for me. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

Sure, that would never happen in the real world...

 

Now I'm just off to visit my parents, who live in Blackpool. On the way I will stop in and visit my aunt, who live in Thornton, near Southport. I hope the traffic round Guildford isn't too bad...

 

And if they're made well, even the Tolkienesque fantasy names once were of this type, but due to language changes, being in foreign languages, or incorporating personal names, are unrecognisable at first sight.

I used to live in a city called something like "Stony Creek". But because the name is of Slavic origin in Germany, most people don't understand its root in the first place, and then it went through several changes over the centuries. And the result is a "fantasy" place name which is another of the "retarded" ones, just mangled by time.

For the most part, all place names have origins like that. If your fantasy names are well done, they could, theoretically, be traced back to their rather mundane origins. (And we can safely assume that that is the case with Tolkien's names, even in those cases where he doesn' t tell us outright - Nargothrond sounds fancy, but essentially only means Narog-Fortress.)

Edited June 27, 2015 by Varana

[Elerond]

Any naming method that you can think to use in fantasy setting you probably find out that it is actually method that is actually used in somewhere in real world to name places. 

[Fardragon]

 

 

by the way, I have always hated Baldur's Gate (D&Ds???) custom of mixing Tolkien-style fantasy names with Fantasy Class B English Names. Sword Coast, Candlekeep, Trademeet etc. sound super retarded for me, I cannot imagine places being called like that in real world. Just smashing two random words against each other and done. This is a part of 'classic roleplays' I could never accept because it was a bit immersion breaking for me. PoE's naming, with cities like Defiance Bay, somehow feels more serious and making sense for me. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

Sure, that would never happen in the real world...

 

Now I'm just off to visit my parents, who live in Blackpool. On the way I will stop in and visit my aunt, who live in Thornton, near Southport. I hope the traffic round Guildford isn't too bad...

 

And if they're made well, even the Tolkienesque fantasy names once were of this type, but due to language changes, being in foreign languages, or incorporating personal names, are unrecognisable at first sight.

I used to live in a city called something like "Stony Creek". But because the name is of Slavic origin in Germany, most people don't understand its root in the first place, and then it went through several changes over the centuries. And the result is a "fantasy" place name which is another of the "retarded" ones, just mangled by time.

For the most part, all place names have origins like that. If your fantasy names are well done, they could, theoretically, be traced back to their rather mundane origins. (And we can safely assume that that is the case with Tolkien's names, even in those cases where he doesn' t tell us outright - Nargothrond sounds fancy, but essentially only means Narog-Fortress.)

 

Sure, it's pretty common for place names to be a mixture of current words, obsolete words, and words from languages that where previously used in the region. Tolkien uses this a lot, but it's also in PoE (e.g. Caed Nua).

[Nakia]

In the USA many place names come from other languages than English, some rather straight forward and others have been some what changed.

Ohio, Kentucky, Florida, Brooklyn, Gila Bend, Louisville just to name a few.

[Tigranes]

The lesson, as backed up by dozens of examples in this thread alone, is that if you know anything about how naming worked throughout human history, then you see how it works in things like POE, The Witcher, LOTR, and so forth.