guguma

I am not entirely sure why I enjoyed Tyranny more than PoE !. Honestly I am not really a fan of hover-over lore info on highlighted text. It probably did not feel over the top, or it might be this "tightness" you are mentioning. If I understand correctly by more tight you mean something like it does not drag on, more compact and to the point? Yes, I will probably have a trial, or play through a shared library. It is not the money that I am bothered about, when you think about it even bad games are actually worth their money if you calculate their cost in entertainment/hour. It is about time, If i can enjoy something better, why waste time on that. Honestly, I would not hesitate to pay for quality, something like BG2 quality I would pay quite a bit for, but that is not how it actually works in life I think I can agree with you on " If anything you might enjoy Deadfire a lot more than PoE1 for similar reasons" point and give it a shot.

Hi All, From time to time, I get these "need to play an RPG" moments. I am wondering if I should give PoE: II a shot. Before you say "just try it man, why are you even asking, and wasting our time" let me provide my experience with PoE 1. I have a fondness for Obsidian, probably because I always saw it as a continuation of Black Isle Studios, and I assume that they kept following this manifesto "Simply put, our goal is to create the best electronic RPG's on the market. Our team is made up of core RPGer's who work on nothing else. We create the kind of games we want to play, and by doing so, hope to stay true to the RPG enthusiast" I backed PoE 1, and I was disappointed. I found it over the top on the worldbuilding aspect, over the top dialogue, with dull characters, static environments etc. It seemed to me that the designers have focused more on playing Tolkien circlejerking with the fans who like this kind of stuff and forgot about what makes a good RPG, which is engagement, involvement, a story which tags you along and keeps you curious and surprised. At least, that is what I see when I look at Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, and Fallout 1 & 2, which has been rated on the top RPG charts since forever. At the time I saw some people who share this opinion, but the general consensus was "come on guys, let us think of this one as Baldur's Gate 1 they are just setting up the world, they needed to get their finances in order etc., PoE 2 will be much better just like BG2 was far better than BG1". I shared the same opinion, until, sometime during development I saw post about devs/designers (names will not be given) boasting about some language glyphs they have been working on which made me lose hope about the second game. Some poeple might enjoy this kind of stuff, but I do not find coming up with a custom language, custom names etc. remotely interesting in this day and age, it has been done and done, given enough effort (far less than the time in the order of game development time) anyone can create a custom language. This is the kind of creativity I would expect from a Bethesda designer/developer "let us change the names of weekdays by replacing -day to -tagh, awesome". Honestly I remember quite many things from BG2 even though I have not touched it in ages, but I only remember that there was a bearded villain jumping about from people to people and had something to do with the Gods, while I needed an English-PoE Welsh Hybrid language dictionary, from PoE. The characters, and the story felt like "lets take stuff from venerated titles, amplify the good and remove the bad, it will turn out to be fine". It is not fine. Everything felt so over the top, every companion has some exoticness, some deep something, some excessive personality. Maybe not Eder, he was a fine fighter dude (did he have something with his brother? I do not remember). I believe that subtlety, is an art. If you stick something into someone's face it does not make it interesting. With characters and NPCs it is better if the player reads into their character, rather than them screaming at the player "I am a conservative elf who hates slavers because I was taken as a slave from my homeland of Glifnifchflhg (which means the pride of the elves in our language) and taken to Engwoth(which means big castle in our language) I am insecure about my magic abilities and my life's purpose is to find my dads ring, Frhwh (Frhwh is a curse in our language it is similar to the F word in your language, I just wanted to clarify it to you)" This is again my opinion but I think modern RPGs fail with regards to making the player connect with the character they are playing, and keep the curiousity and engagement flowing, this also applies to the villain. This is where Planescape and Baldur's Gate really shine. Taking BG2 as an example, wait why am I in a cage? ok weird wizard dude experimenting on me, minor villain?, talking about potential, helping me or what, wait where did shadow thieves come from what does this have to do with anything. Hmm, strange dungeon, why is there an elvish looking room here with alarms, dryad mentioned her, what is this guys problem, oh wow we are out, wait what is going on suddenly cowled wizards, oh oh it seems like this wizard is the main villain, wait what they took my sister dang! And suddenly you find youself in an area full of life, there are mundane merchants some useless bars, an actually useful merchant, an interesting quest in a circus tent, go to slums, there is a locked sphere here what is that, some cool thief character (Gaelan Bayle, this is how you make a good NPC, everyone remembers Gaelan although he is not that significant, and talks plain English) hmm ok seems like I need to collect money, go to Copper Coronet, again lively environment, capturing music, stuff to do, like seriously guys (Dog fights, slave fights, Firkraag, child murderer on the top floor was just the things I remember stuffed in Copper Coronet) And suddenly Bodhi, another offer, what does the vampires have anything to do with me? should I spy for the thieves guild, double cross the rival guild, Edwin? nether scrolls?. I mean one can continue forever, regarding the villlain, this dude gets into my dreams, some stuff he talks about are interesting, oh dang sister/brother stuff, oh no my soul is gone etc. etc. We were kept in constant engagement with the villain Simply throwing a lame backstory about your magic abilities and what makes you special, and not revisiting this at all and throwing you in a dull world where events has nothing to do with you personally does not make the story about you. PoE was not terribly bad at this, but felt like bad copy and paste. I recently played Kingmaker, same issues there, I am sorry for the long post, and a bit of rant. Look, to each his/her own, but this is my opinion about RPGs and games. Being in software business myself I know that it is tedious and hard to make games, juggling funding and finances on top of it makes it even harder, I am not the best writer out there, neither am I an accomplished game designer. I would like to know if this game is for me because I would like to play something that I would enjoy, take me a bit away from daily headaches. Final Note: I remember enjoying Tyranny very very much. Apart from Barik's voice, nothing personal against the voice actor, but I just cannot stand this voice actors, ehmm.. voicing?. I wish Obsidian would expand Tyranny, or developed on it. If you read through all of this, I appreciate it, and your comments are appreciated

Divinity Original Sin's budget was over 4 million euros (which was at that time over 5 million dollars). Majority of their budget didn't come from KS as they only collected 1 million dollars to finish the game. Before they started their kickstarter Larian was already build their engine and engine tools in most parts and most of the game itself. Larian also did in their KS for D:OS mistake to promise too much and they had to take back some of those promises during developing the game. Divinity Original Sin 2 also had KS for it, that produced over 2 million dollars and Larian puts in their own money also in that game so it budget is about same as the budget of the first game. There are benefits and draw back in both making own engine and using general purpose engine like unity. And those benefits and draw back vary from project to project and there which is why companies make assessments of their needs and select tool according to them. One thing is certain that Obsidian didn't have their own engine ready when they started their KS and making one from the scratch would have meant additional developing time, as it takes time to build engine. And there is also one thing that needs to be taking in consideration when you compare D:OS to PoE, which is difference in typical salaries in Belgium and California. Come on now, and Obsidian had no spare funds at all. According PCGamer, Larian loaned money from banks, got outside investors and also got the Kickstarter funds. Shows enormous dedication, if nothing else. Larian's "dream RPG" concept does not really overlap with mine, but I enjoyed playing it. Maybe a better comparison to PoE will be Torment: Tides of Numenera (definitely a friendly comparison though, not as rivals), that one took much longer to be sure and still not out.

There are too many posts to quote since I replied last, so I am quoting Sawyer here, as his input is quite relevant. First and foremost, thank you for clarifying these points, simply chiming in to clarify these points is a show of care and makes me appreciative. Not being in the business myself, it is hard to tell who did what, even from the "credits" roll. But I assumed Lead Designers (Project Directors) had a lot to say regarding the overall quality of the final product and held,although unfairly, much of the responsibility. My original comment is now edited to reflect this information. My assumptions regarding JE Sawyer and MC Avellone stem from the idea mentioned above. I might be misguided, but that does not change my opinion regarding PoE itself. Regarding the 4 Million issue, if you think that a company puts 4 million dollars in a safe and keeps paying everything from that until a project is finished, than it is not much. That is not, and should not be, how companies work though. One can squeeze a lot from million dollar sums by proper handling of that money. Also I have to mention Larian's Divinity Original Sin 2 here. 1 Million Budget, using their own engine (by the way the only reason I am bringing the engine Issue up here is not because I want the developers to come up with their engine, definitely not, unity is fine, and certainly saves a lot of resources (funds, work etc). Using unity would allow them to allocate those resources where it is needed). Let us not get into comparing Original Sin to PoE, though. Original Sin is not a great RPG in terms of story writing etc. and had way too many cheap jokes for my liking. About BG2 being childish, along with the writing, I have to disagree. Your choices along the questlines mostly sidequests were "I will go where I want when I want", and "I will give you a cupcake if you let me go", yes I agree. But regarding the overall story Irenicus, Bodhi, Shadow Guild, Firkraag, The Drow, Solaufein, the elves, Edwin, Harpers. One cannot really pinpoint one as absolute evil for evil's sake, or a patron saint of saints. I honestly wished there would be an option to gift Irenicus another Bhaalspawn's soul. Anyway... Regarding the MegaDungeon, I agree with Revan91 there, it would have been more interesting with less levels but better design. But, you know what, I am mostly impressed with the constructive criticism coming from the community, most often one gets the typical "go away if you do not like it, duh, lol" kind of attitude. I am glad that the issues I raised, although hastily done and messy at first, were tested by either constructive criticism or support. If the developers are listening to the community, and the community is mostly like this in this thread, who knows, maybe there is really hope for PoE 2, and future RPGs from Obsidian.

I don't know that I would go all that far, but yes, people who claim today that Baldur's Gate 2 is the best RPG ever made are letting their nostalgia have a stronger say that it should. At the time they came out they were great games. By todays standards of gameplay, more nuanced story, and especially graphics.... they are pretty average. Eternity isn't perfect. It has serious pacing problems, the setting does need work, many things in game for "backers" were not good features and would have been better off left out. It has never been a vastly inferior, unplayble, game breaking bug mess that many of the die hards on RPG Codex and this forum say it is though. Objectively speaking, it is not my sense of nostalgia. PoE graphics is obviously better, but I cannot claim the same about the setting, or the story or the NPC's or NPC interactions. BG2 never stopped surprising you during the questlines, at least before Underdark. NPC's were definitely more interesting and they did not read like an encyclopedia, here you click on them ask them 200 questions about "themselves", not about the circumstances or the story(most of them). They might as well hand you their diary and be done with it. PoE might have a more modern engine (Unity), but it does not create the same sense of absorption at all. When you head into Slums in BG2, it feels and acts like slums, people shouting, cats wandering, the accent and the manner of speech of the voice actors (NPC's), inns and taverns are al beautifully designed and drawn. PoE cities, NPC's and the environments are horribly static. I am not upset because PoE is not a clone of BG2 or Planescape Torment. What makes me upset is the amount of effort shown, and all this Pseudo-Language stuff Sawyer seems to be obsessed with. They were given 4 Million Dollars, 4 Million is NO JOKE, if you also consider the investment potential. They did not even make their own engine. The engine is there, funds are available, and no one complained about the time it would take them to finish the game. Do what you do best Obsidian, we said, and nothing else. After my initial complaint after finishing PoE, I had hopes for PoE 2. I thought, OK, it was their first try, just like how the initial BG was good but not great, they will show much more effort and make PoE 2 much better. It makes one snap though when you login after months and see Sawyer showcasing his fascination with scripts. I am not against creating a world (language included), but make the game better "first", give us interesting characters, interesting places and interesting plots, good stories. Then you can name your creatures gul's or fampyr's or locations Gwyrfyn Vyrwyn, whatever you like. But, as the other poster said, if this game does not satisfy me, I will simply move on. But that does not mean that I will not raise my opinion. Long story short, what made me a fan of the old IE games, particularly BG2 and Planescape was how compelling they were. They managed to keep you curious about what is going to happen next, even in sidequests, and managed to surprise you at every turn. And that in my opinion is great storytelling in an RPG. Not calling Mondays, Montag's like Bethesda RPG's do, and this is basically what Sawyer does with his scripts. As I said, Tyranny, although it felt very experimental and incomplete, although it was buggy and the combat was hectic, it was definitely interesting and somewhat compelling.

Josh Sawyer, playing Tolkien... This is the very reason Pillars of Eternity (PoE) was such a disappointment. And here we go again. I was extremely disappointed with PoE solely due to this reason. Rather than an RPG, which was supposed to be a spiritual successor to IE games, we were given a semi-Welsh, semi-English history of lamelands to read. Everything including the combat, areas, NPC's (bar Durance, Mother and maybe Eder) was incredibly dull, comparing those lifeless cities to the cities in BG2 is just painful. I was expecting Avellone to step in and clean up this mess, exactly like he did with Neverwinter Nights 2. Remember the kalach-cha, vanilla NWN2, that is Sawyer right there with Avellone saving the merchandise in MotB. Now that he left Obsidian, it seems like we are stuck with this. Edit: The strike-through comment of mine stemmed from my certain assumptions, later shown to be wrong, I am leaving it there but crossing it. I will not be so cruel, PoE was OK, but only that. Thousands of people did not donate money so that Josh Sawyer could play Tolkien. Instead of coming up with better story writing, fixing issues with the combat and talent system, and focusing on ambience, someone is working on his runes. Amazing! I am not impressed. At least learn something from Tyranny! Tyranny felt quite experimental and incomplete, yet I would take it over PoE any day.

1) Quote my statement where I oh so blatantly declared how fantasy should work. 2) If you are trying to deconstruct me make a meaningful statement about: "I am trying to draw attention to pseudo-language vs. other forms of creativity and elements of immersion, where both uses resources from the same pool and stating that in my opinion other forms of creativity and elements of immersion adds more value to a product compared to utilizing a pseudo-language." --------------------------- Agreed. --------------------------- @Ieldra: --- @guguma: You can't reasonably expect people to adapt to your culture if your're travelling in the domain of their's. --- I think you misunderstood my sarcasm, if you are referring to my statement about traveling through Denmark.

Those names have historic roots, based on history, The History, that actually happened, sadly most are named after massacred and extinct Native Americans, not only states but many cities and counties too. I just looked at what Mississippi meant and, surprise, it means "The Father of Waters" We know Massachusetts, Paris, Berlin, Cairo, Copenhagen, because we live on earth. When someone tells you they live in Copenhagen, you understand perfectly well what they mean. I do not intend to read the "Collected Volumes on the History of Dyrwood" or keep a "Concise Engwithian Dictionary" with me while I am trying to enjoy a story. Well but Copenhagen isn't the real name it's København. It's just foreigners to Scandinavia that call it Copenhagen. In old norse it's called Kaupmannahøfn which literally means Merchant City. So for me calling things something other than standard english words is no problem Exactly, thus when the city was founded it was named "Merchant City" (Merchant's Haven maybe?), it was given a meaningful name, just like how every culture names everything. Just as the Mississippi example. So for you calling things something other than standard English words is no problem, tsk tsk, unbelieveable. I always call things in English, I travel to many countries yet I insist calling everything in English. When I go to Denmark I go up to the train conductor and tell them they have made a huge mistake, I will go to Copenhagen not to some nonsense called København and when s/he replies to me in Danish, I raise my arms in complete bafflement and yell them to stop talking nonsense. Is this what you were able to fathom from all my posts? A large portion of people in this argument are comparing the evolution of words and languages over thousands of years, uttered by thousands of cultures and evolved through years of intercultural relations, to the evolution of non-complete languages created in the past 3 years.

What do you expect me to do, if you still insist on not seeing the big picture but dwell on individual words. I agree that the position is nothing alike a consul. Then what is the position alike, did such a position ever exist in the real world? Is the position alike a "duc". "Duc" resembles the idea of a duke, a feodal ruler, not elected. A consul conveys the idea of an elected official, yet not by the people but rather by a favored class. Which one has closer meaning to the ruling class of Vailian Republics? If you are going to use "duc" you might as well use "duke" instead. Would you like it if I used "Consool" instead of Consul. I would not, because Consool screams "I wanted to say consul, but did not, so I made a silly word for consul, now I have to define what Consool means, however I might have simply used consul instead and redefined the word in my setting". Just as "Duc" screams, "I wanted to say duke, but did not, so I made a silly word for duke, now I have to define what Duc means, however I might have simply used duke instead and redefined the word in my setting."

Virtually every speaker of Ænglisc who lived after the Norman invasion spoke like that, yourself included. Chances are that you would say something like "I eat beef", rather than "I eat cowflesh". So what's with this "beef" business? Are "vampire" and "duke" so much better? Those are just butchered versions of the perfectly fine Serbo-Croat word vampir and the perfectly fine French word duc. I don't see why this disturbs you so much. I think they did a good job of it. It was still clear what the words meant, but they were gibbered enough to make it feel different and exotic (and not reveal too much too early, for most people anyway). English IS NOT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE, as I have said before. The game is in English not in French or Serbian so yes it makes much more sense to use vampire and duke. Do not cross the barrier between a fantasy world and the real one. Languages evolve, thus some utterance ends up being "beef". There is no justification for such evolution in a fantasy world. First, he knows that it's not your native language, don't need to shout, he never said it was, but you ARE speaking English or at least writing it are you not? So you do speak English even if it is not your native language, so your point is irrelevant, the words you use when you speak English are derived from other languages in many cases including French. Second, and excuse me for shouting now but it is justified in this case, HOW DARE YOU PRESUME TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T HAVE IN FANTASY! Who the **** do you think you are to come here and tell us that we can't have something just because you personally don't like it? How dare you presume to tell people what they shouldn't do in a Fantasy setting? *Points to door* Go home and think about what you have done, next thing you'll be declaring that guns don't belong in Fantasy either... I wonder why people find it hard to read, interpret and dwell on what they are about to say before speaking their mind. I am entitled to state my opinion about the game or the setting, whether it is negative or positive, and that is exactly what I am doing here. There is nothing daring about that. I might as well say that I do not enjoy guns or monks being in a fantasy world, I did not, but I sure can. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I am trying to draw attention to pseudo-language vs. other forms of creativity and elements of immersion, where both uses resources from the same pool and stating that in my opinion other forms of creativity and elements of immersion adds more value to a product compared to utilizing a pseudo-language." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If one is not entitled to speak what they do not like, then every creation must be accepted as flawless, whether it is an art, or a book, or a game, or a fantasy setting or a piece of music. First you take on this zealous attitude of defending what is already there (some do this blindly, some actually provide reasons which is perfectly fine), then you wonder why products of the gaming industry have become so shallow, so cliche! Consumer 1: "I do not enjoy what is done with the language" Consumer Mob: "It is perfectly fine, you do not understand what you are talking about" Consumer 2: "I think combat could be better" Consumer Mob: "No it is perfectly fine, you are stupid, if you can do better do it yourself ...rabble rabble..." Consumer 3: "It seems to me you skimmed off from the storytelling" Consumer Mob: "...rabble rabble...We like it, it is the perfect length, do not play it if you do not like it ...rabble rabble..." Consumer 4: "I believe classes and abilities need improvement, it lacks some complexity" Consumer Mob: "...rabble rabble... no it does not, you need to get used to it ..rabble rabble..." Now if I were a game developer and I saw this, I would feel absolutely no pressure of thriving to make a better product release, I have done just fine. In fact I can even do less and people will love it anyhow. Same goes with art, literature, movies, music etc... @fglakin I would either use "duke" but state in the lore clearly how these dukes are elected to reflect upon the different political structure. Or use something like a "consul". From the wiki: Vailian Republics are rooted in what we would call a Renaissance culture, closely resembling the Italian city-states.[2]. The land is divided among fourteen republics, each ruled by duc or ducess, and has voting rights on the sengretta ducala ("ducal congress" in Vallian) Among them five "great cities" (cuiteti beli), considered "grand" republics, and have greater voting power in their electoral council; these cities are Ancenze, Ozia, Revua, Selona, and Spirento. The leaders of these republics are known as the ducs bels, or "great ducs", and form the leading force of the ducal congress. Alternate option Vailian Republics closely resembles the Italian city-states.[2]. The land is divided among fourteen republics, each ruled by a consul, and has voting rights on the Consular Senate Among them five grand republics have greater voting power in their electoral council; these cities are Ancenze, Ozia, Revua, Selona, and Spirento. The leaders of these republics are known as the Proconsuls (or High Consul you choose), and form the leading force of the Consular Senate. It does not have to be consul, or consular senate, use any you would like. But it sure gets rid of all this quotation emphasis, and parentheses in every single sentence. And Pallegina can still be given an authentic pronunciation of these Consuls (Consulare), Consular Senate (Senato di Consulare), yet there is not a necessity to explain what she meant afterwards since it is pretty straightforward. "Sengretta Ducala" however is not, or "ducs bels" they resemble more like Sangria of the Duke, or Ducks Bells, or Beautiful (Nice) Duke. Most importantly what is done is done. The setting is set, it is not going to change, as I said before if you do not believe me observe someone we all like. Look at RPG's Chris Avellone worked at and look at the parts he wrote (including PoE), his companions, questlines, storylines are damn impressive yet the language is plain and simple (unless it is a copyrighted term from a setting).

Virtually every speaker of Ænglisc who lived after the Norman invasion spoke like that, yourself included. Chances are that you would say something like "I eat beef", rather than "I eat cowflesh". So what's with this "beef" business? Are "vampire" and "duke" so much better? Those are just butchered versions of the perfectly fine Serbo-Croat word vampir and the perfectly fine French word duc. I don't see why this disturbs you so much. I think they did a good job of it. It was still clear what the words meant, but they were gibbered enough to make it feel different and exotic (and not reveal too much too early, for most people anyway). English IS NOT MY NATIVE LANGUAGE, as I have said before. The game is in English not in French or Serbian so yes it makes much more sense to use vampire and duke. Do not cross the barrier between a fantasy world and the real one. Languages evolve, thus some utterance ends up being "beef". There is no justification for such evolution in a fantasy world. Virtually every speaker of Ænglisc who lived after the Norman invasion spoke like that, yourself included. Chances are that you would say something like "I eat beef", rather than "I eat cowflesh". So what's with this "beef" business? Are "vampire" and "duke" so much better? Those are just butchered versions of the perfectly fine Serbo-Croat word vampir and the perfectly fine French word duc. Indeed, the PoE variants of words feel quite fitting for a Medieval European based fantasy setting IMO. In some ways more authentic than the modern English variants actually, if you know a little of (or from) European languages. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who feel irritated by those words, are people who only speak English. Again English is not my native language, I am not offended by "words", I am offended by the idea that making up words for a fantasy setting is "creative", and a great way to use resources such as "time" and "money". He said "honest and harsh", not "sane and reasonable". I see all these responses, all are about justifying such creation of words and languages and the basis for that justification all point to having a "method" behind it, or how words evolve in real life, or how these are not made up but referenced from existing or archaic languages. Ok. What part of "Just because there is a methodology behind it, does not justify doing it" is so confusing to understand? Sad thing is some people seems to have confused me for a native English speaker, and assumes that I am insisting on English usage only because I have absolutely no idea that other cultures and languages exist, and even if they did, I believe that they are inferior to English. I am not going to insist further, if you believe a fantasy setting should come with a set of pseudo-languages, or pseudo-words fine with me. But I believe that just 1 very interesting piece of lore, 1 very interesting original questline, 1 very original character, all these contribute much more value to a setting and actually require some creative, out of the box thinking lest they resemble cliche's. You can create a kingdom ruled by "ducs" where magic is handled by "Gwiddonod" living in "Hochewalt" and by an order of "magos" named "rycerze wiedzy". Or You can create a kingdom ruled by dukes where magic is handled by witches living in highforest and by an order of wizards named knights of knowledge. In my opinion both these mini-settings are one and the same, in fact a forced attempt at creativity in the first example actually manages to diminish the value of this setting. SO YES, I AM GIVING THE SETTING A "3/10" BECAUSE ANY ATTEMPT AT IMMERSION IS INTERRUPTED BY A SMEARING OF PSEUDO-WORDS TO MY FACE, SCREAMING TO ME THAT IT BELONGS TO A SETTING, IT IS PUT THERE BY SOMEONE WHO THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE VERY CREATIVE, VERY ORIGINAL.

Those names have historic roots, based on history, The History, that actually happened, sadly most are named after massacred and extinct Native Americans, not only states but many cities and counties too. I just looked at what Mississippi meant and, surprise, it means "The Father of Waters" We know Massachusetts, Paris, Berlin, Cairo, Copenhagen, because we live on earth. When someone tells you they live in Copenhagen, you understand perfectly well what they mean. I do not intend to read the "Collected Volumes on the History of Dyrwood" or keep a "Concise Engwithian Dictionary" with me while I am trying to enjoy a story. So, you basically blame the developers for your own laziness and inability to immerse yourself in a story? Somehow, it's their fault for being too thorough in developing a setting? That's....not a very sensible attitude to have? Have a very nice day. -fgalkin I am saying the exact opposite, being thorough in developing a setting does not necessitate silly language games, the energy and resources used for this nonsense could have been spent in better quest lines and adventures, which surprisingly enhances immersion. I should design an RPG for you that teaches you Pseudo-Russian I am sure you will like it much better than PoE. You can immerse yourself in delightful linguistic gibberish. I find the Deity Quests Immersive, the sudden purple soul visions immersive, Durance and Grieving Mother's secrecy immersive, The question of "What the Dunryd Row is about?" immersive, What has occurred under Caed Nua (The Watcher's Stronghold) immersive, the sudden riot in animancy hearings immersive. But Lle a Rhemen ? I do not find this immersive. If that is your definition of immersive, well it is your definition of immersive... I agree, please, I am talking about excessive use here. A race called Engwithan's is perfectly fine, or "Adra". Think of it this way if Forgotten Realms elves referred to everyone in their own language then wouldn't it devalue the word "Irenicus"? I do not know if what you are telling here is based on fact, but I would not be surprised if this is Mr. Sawyer's touch of brilliance. I do not remember any use of these pseudo-languages in Durance or Grieving Mother dialogues. Maybe we would not be so wrong about the (Poe - Expansion) and (NWN2 - MotB) comparison, if the expansion is lead by Avellone instead.

Those names have historic roots, based on history, The History, that actually happened, sadly most are named after massacred and extinct Native Americans, not only states but many cities and counties too. I just looked at what Mississippi meant and, surprise, it means "The Father of Waters" We know Massachusetts, Paris, Berlin, Cairo, Copenhagen, because we live on earth. When someone tells you they live in Copenhagen, you understand perfectly well what they mean. I do not intend to read the "Collected Volumes on the History of Dyrwood" or keep a "Concise Engwithian Dictionary" with me while I am trying to enjoy a story.

I cannot tell if this is sarcasm, I am quite certain that I did "NOT" inspire Obsidian into making this game nor plant the idea of a Kickstarter project. With the spoiler I wanted to convey the idea that I did wish for this to happen, and that I am happy with the outcome. I assumed it would be at the very least satisfactory, and it turned out to be quite good. Except "the language nonsense" as I call it, it seems I have a special dislike for this kind of "creativity". Because the dialogue, and the books, and the glossary are the medium in which the setting and the lore is experienced by the player, and linguistics plays a major part in it.

DOUBLE POST