Limerick edit thread

[Waswat]

Pretty sad to see this. I'll be having second thoughts when I get the option to buy Obsidians future products.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Waswat

[deuxhero]

I love how you think anyone will take you guys professed motives seriously when your posts lecture about how misgendering is ok.

 

Like, credibility went all the way out the window there.

 

The only responses to that was that freedom of speech is OK and genocide is not.

 

 

 

Nice move, Obsidian. Now my SJW-y acquaintances hate you for letting him play victim in the new epitaph, while the whiners who always cry "censorship" when someone bursts their comfortable little bubble of privilege hate you for changing the original.

 

Personally, I think this whole thing could've been avoided with tighter control over backer material. Maybe then my eyes wouldn't bleed when reading the backer NPC stories either!

 

 

Seriously though, I don't get those who have sworn off Obsidian games forever because of this thing. What are you gonna play now? Bioware games? Elder Scrolls? It's not like Obsidian has, like, any competitors at what they do.

I think you forgot Larian and inExile.... ;-)

 

 

Larian? Haven't you heard, they caved to SJW censorship too. The early concept art for the two Original Sin main characters had him in sensible armour and her in cleavage-y boobplate. When people complained about this, the art was changed so that both characters wore sensible armour. Or as sensible as armour ever gets in Larian games.

 

All those spikes, man.

 

 

Which

1:was changed pre-release when everyone could still withdraw donations

2:they never appoligzed for it, instead they've talked very extensively about how they got physical threats forcing them.

[Atheosis]

There is an ocean of hyperbole in this thread...

[k1rage]

I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.

and what motives are those?

 

My motives are a hatred of censorship, I grew up in a county where they told us we had free speech, well across the course of my life I've watched it disappear

and vanish before my very eyes. you have to be careful what you say at almost any moment because there are dire consequences to saying things that offend people.

shall we all show our mouths shut?

All of us will intentionally or not offend some one with our words it happens but we must be allowed to speak those words or freedom is dead

this man PAID to say those words and obsidian took the away more than a refund is in order!

[Rance]

Very dissapointed Obs.

 

All this over ONE lunatic. I feel tempted to falseflag about everything remotely ofensive.

 

People being upset with the limericks removal just imagine this: The new limerick makes fun of the people complaining about the joke in the first place, from this day to their last day, whenever they play through this game, there will be a piece of text mocking them in the game. Now shill out.

 

my reaction to all of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXozZ7JhTRs

 

I'm glad we live in a world were the real Rance doesn't need to worry for sjw BS.

 

;^)

[mindswayer]

I'm just disappointed and afraid that this will severely handicap the writer's work in the future. Whether consciously or unconsciously, whoever writes a sequel title will most like have to self-censour his texts and characters. Chilling effect will most likely take place, resulting in happy endings, themes and characters in every single game onwards.

[Highlander]

 

Just tell me, what's next? If there's an insult against a blonde person in the game, is Obsidian going to cave in again when a certain blonde person gets offended and launches a hate campaign on Twitter? Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for my ****ing signed collector's edition I paid almost three hundred dollars for, which is nowhere to be seen. Maybe you should set your priorities straight, Obsidian, and maybe, just *maybe*, you should not be ****ing cowards who cave in to demands of extremists.

They didn't. The backer gave consent for it to be changed. Obsidian did nothing wrong.

 

They actually did, they ****ed up the second they backed away because a few poeple on Twitter got butthurt over a dumb joke.

[Lasci]

Holyyyy. Gasp in awe as everyone's inherent bigotry comes to the forefront.

 

Why do you feel "trans" inviduals need more protection (from mere words!) than anyone offended by

 

Some levels depict chamber floors covered in large pools of blood. During the course of the game, players can interact and purchase services from a prostitute—no sexual act is ever depicted. The dialogue can also reference sexual material (e.g., “The prostitute holds her hips, thrusting her chest forward as you come near her” and “But if he spreads a rumor that her lover has just visited a brothel and acquired a pox on his loins, she'll end it on her own.'). The word “f**k” appears in dialogue.

?

 

Do you think they really are completely and utterly mentally unstable and should be confined to a padded room for their own protection?

 

Your diction is proving my point. Putting quotes around 'trans' as if it's some imaginary thing -- some make believe group that thinks they're more special than everyone else.

 

Obsidian has marketed Pillars of Exile as a dark fantasy game with a rating and warnings that reflect such. If people find blood and death and sexual content and coarse language to be triggering, then clearly this is not a game for them -- as it is advertised as a game that has content with these themes. 

 

A padded cell? Hyperbole isn't going to do you much justice here. Comparing the advertised content of a game to a transphobic and homophobic limerick that evaded the vetting process and was hidden is silly.

 

 

hateful white male agenda
 

Am I on Tumblr right now?

 

In no way was that poem "transphobic", if anything it was mildly homophobic, but was much more "ALCHOLICPHOBIC" or whatever people like you would call it.

You need to get a thicker skin, and stop trying to censor everyone around you.

 

Or maybe just leave your politics at home while reading a joke.

 

 

That poem was wholly transphobic and homophobic. Someone found out that they'd mistaken someone for a woman and killed themselves in shame. Because they slept with someone that they identified as being a woman, but was in fact a male. He killed himself with sleeping with a male -- homophobic. He killed himself for sleeping with someone who thought was a male, but presumably presented herself as a female -- transphobic. Slept with this person out of their own volition, mind you; there was literally not a single mention of alcohol in the limerick. Not one. You guys are the ones framing the limerick in the haze of an alocholic stupor. 

 

 

Yay, caving in to the demands of those that most likely didn't even buy the game.

 

Oh it's much worse. It's caving in to the demands of a twitter tranny who likes to to tweet disgusting genocidal fantasies. Yet zealously expects others to live by a strict moral standard he would never, not even for a split second, apply to himself. I mean the thought would just never register.

 

 

Yeah, so, this is part of the crux of the issue. I mean, we can just start with the simple use of the word "tranny" here and the egregious misgendering of the person in question. People spewing hateful comments like this about someone who has been consistently targeted by cruel messages from misogynistic men who are wishing rape, death, and maiming on them is really muddying your intentions.

 

Let me get this straight: Erika is all of these awful things you're casting them as, but when they fight back against a torrent of hate by writing a misandrist joke -- which is what you guys are characterizing this limerick as; a harmless joke -- suddenly they're an awful wench and a tranny? That's a pretty awful double standard. What you're saying is "I hate you Obsidian, you're so awful! I won't buy your product because you got rid of a harmless joke! Screw this tranny for ruining my game! They're so awful! Look at them, making harmless jokes about men who have sent them death threats! How dare they!" Grow up. This is about hateful gamers being entitled pissants about something that doesn't affect them.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Lasci

[DocDoomII]

Which

1:was changed pre-release when everyone could still withdraw donations

2:they never appoligzed for it, instead they've talked very extensively about how they got physical threats forcing them.

Well, I'm not in favour to threats, but iron bikinis are moronic.

Normal armor looks better.

Edited April 3, 2015 by DocDoomII

[ChipMHazard]

Obsidian didn't remove the backer entry, the developers contacted the backer who made it and he or she agreed to submit a different limerick, which mocks the people who wanted it removed. In this regard they aren't disrespecting the backer's wishes, because he or she paid for the tier and agreed to do it. I, personally, would have just ignored the tweet altogether, but at the same time I don't own or run a business.

 

You can argue that it's a slippery slope, and Obsidian will make more major changes to avoid offending people in the future, but this is a game where you can kill children, where kids with animal souls in them become ravenous undead, where genocide is seen with regularity, where a woman gets raped, and so on. I'm having difficulty seeing the developers do a complete 180 from this just because a backer agreed to change a poem, especially since virtually none of the backer content has any major effect on the main campaign and could be completely ignored altogether. This applies to the memorial itself, which actually has several immersion-breaking entries that the player needs to go deliberately out of the way to find.

 

Good and fair points. This could simply have been done to appease the mob as it were and avoid further pressure/negativity from internet sources. It's also entirely possible that they won't give into such sillyness again. However I just can't be sure about that at the moment. If they had any ideas of putting in a transgendered NPC into future content then that might not happen now, as an example. 

Their future actions will help reassure me that they won't start giving into arbitrary political correctness to avoid internet scandal, at least not where it truly matters i.e. the gameplay itself. 

[McMayhem]

How is it logical to respond to the supposed notion that Obsidian is giving into angry mob demands by making angry mob demands of your own? Isn't that just as, if not worse than what the "SJW" people are doing? "I'm going to undermine everything Obsidian does financially." Really? That's what you are going to do? 

 

As a gay man myself, I had no issue with the joke in question, or any of the others I have seen. I'm not easily offended and I really don't care what some gamer nerd thinks about my lifestyle. 

 

Even if they did "give in" to the "demands," how exactly does that spell out the end of Obsidian (and from what some of you are suggesting, THE WORLD ITSELF?) Seriously, with all these new threads popping up, you guys are making more of an issue out of it than the idiots who took issue in the first place. Responding to a minority of "Having a female/gay/black character that isn't 100% against the stereotype is pure evil" touters by insulting the entire LGBT community (seriously, even when it's a feminist or racial issue, you guys always point to LGBT :/ ) any different?

[darkpatriot]

I love how you think anyone will take you guys professed motives seriously when your posts lecture about how misgendering is ok.

 

Like, credibility went all the way out the window there.

 

It is.  You can proclaim that it isn't but that doesn't make it so.  It isn't a good faith tactic to just pronounce someone else's position in a debate as evil or immoral.  In this case the debate over gender and sex.  You should try being tolerant of other people's opinions instead of denouncing them if they disagree with you.  At the very least you should give some reasoning for why you feel that position is immoral or unacceptable if you are going to denounce it.

Edited April 3, 2015 by darkpatriot

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

 

In retrospect, this is getting a bit silly

 

Obsidian didn't remove the backer entry, the developers contacted the backer who made it and he or she agreed to submit a different limerick, which mocks the people who wanted it removed. In this regard they aren't disrespecting the backer's wishes, because he or she paid for the tier and agreed to do it. I, personally, would have just ignored the tweet altogether, but at the same time I don't own or run a business.

 

You can argue that it's a slippery slope, and Obsidian will make more major changes to avoid offending people in the future, but this is a game where you can kill children, where kids with animal souls in them become ravenous undead, where genocide is seen with regularity, where a woman gets raped, and so on. I'm having difficulty seeing the developers do a complete 180 from this just because a backer agreed to change a poem, especially since virtually none of the backer content has any major effect on the main campaign and could be completely ignored altogether. This applies to the memorial itself, which actually has several immersion-breaking entries that the player needs to go deliberately out of the way to find.

 

You can argue that it was a waste of time and a distraction from the patch, but really how long does emailing a backer take? I've seen some of the developers on here at 2 o' clock in the morning, discussing bugs on the forums. It's not like they all gathered in a conference room and had an 8 hour debate about the issue; they were probably more focused on fixing bugs.

 

In the end of the day all I'm concerned about is the games. While I would have preferred for Obsidian to just ignore random people on the internet I'm not distrubed by this either, because I can't see how this will significantly affect content now or in the near future and this was ultimately something the backer consented to. I'm not really concerned about people on Twitter feeling victorious or "winning", because the politics don't really concern me and come off as petty.

Where does it stop? Now that they know Obsidian will cave when confronted, what will they want when they come for the mile? Obsidian already gave them the inch. 

 

That is the problem. You say you are worried about the games. This WILL affect the games. 

 

 

Dude, listen to yourself. They changed a backer poem. In a memorial in the middle of nowhere, that serves no in-game purpose other than referencing the backers. They didn't even remove the entry, they changed it with the backer's consent and it mocks the people who wanted it removed. None of the backer content is even significant to the game, there are even people requesting mods for it to all be removed. How, in any way, is this going to affect games in the future?

[k1rage]

Pretty sad to see this. I'll be having second thoughts on Obsidians future products.

so will I

 

Not on the grounds that they make bad games but on the grounds that I have lost respect for the companies integrity

[sparklecat]

 

I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.

and what motives are those?

 

My motives are a hatred of censorship, I grew up in a county where they told us we had free speech, well across the course of my life I've watched it disappear

and vanish before my very eyes. you have to be careful what you say at almost any moment because there are dire consequences to saying things that offend people.

shall we all show our mouths shut?

All of us will intentionally or not offend some one with our words it happens but we must be allowed to speak those words or freedom is dead

this man PAID to say those words and obsidian took the away more than a refund is in order!

 

 

Are you being arrested for expressing offensive opinions (that are not inciting violence)?  No?  Congratulations, your free speech rights are fine.

 

[ChipMHazard]

 

 

 

;^)

 

 

Oh here we go again... Methinks that they are already sharpening their pitchforks and readying their torches. 

Let me be clear about this [Obsidian] those people there do NOT have the well being of your company in mind. I sure do hope that when you made the change you did so solely because it didn't live up to your standards. If you changed it because of these people then you will most probably not be hearing the end of it before you remove it completely. Do not try to appease people whom don't care about you or your products. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[Fenrir007]

 

@Obsidian How many angry tweets are needed to have other dialogue in the game changed? I figured since you caved in once you will do so again and I'm just curious about the exact numbers of tweets needed

 

Just the one, as far as I can tell. But you have the know the secret SJW handshake.

 

That, or have a convincing enough argument on why the dialogue ought to be changed.

 

 

Does willful misrepresentation of what the dialogue means also counts as a good enough argument?

[Hideous]

I feel pretty dissapointed in Obsidian now.

[Mansen]

Well, I'm not in favour to threats, but iron bikinis are moronic.

Normal armor looks better.

 

I'll have to agree with this one - If only on grounds of realism. If you design a game that doesn't try to do the whole "kooky cartoon physics" thing, it feels weird to have chainmail bikinis, male loincloths and boobplate. All of which has been proven to be more trouble than protective.

[DustOff]

 

Look at them, making harmless jokes about men who have sent them death threats! How dare they!" Grow up. This is about hateful gamers being entitled pissants about something that doesn't affect them.

 

 

I don't think jokes about genocide are harmless. Nor do I believe this person's statements are prompted solely by people attacking them. Most people don't discuss in depths how they want to kill an entire group of people just because they're angry.

[Darji]

 

 

I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.

and what motives are those?

 

My motives are a hatred of censorship, I grew up in a county where they told us we had free speech, well across the course of my life I've watched it disappear

and vanish before my very eyes. you have to be careful what you say at almost any moment because there are dire consequences to saying things that offend people.

shall we all show our mouths shut?

All of us will intentionally or not offend some one with our words it happens but we must be allowed to speak those words or freedom is dead

this man PAID to say those words and obsidian took the away more than a refund is in order!

 

 

Are you being arrested for expressing offensive opinions (that are not inciting violence)?  No?  Congratulations, your free speech rights are fine.

 

 

I am sorry but if you believe that censorship can only be done through the government you are really naive. Especially in this day and age....

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

2:they never appoligzed for it, instead they've talked very extensively about how they got physical threats forcing them.

 

 

Source?

[Darkeus]

 

 

 

 

Nice move, Obsidian. Now my SJW-y acquaintances hate you for letting him play victim in the new epitaph, while the whiners who always cry "censorship" when someone bursts their comfortable little bubble of privilege hate you for changing the original.

 

Personally, I think this whole thing could've been avoided with tighter control over backer material. Maybe then my eyes wouldn't bleed when reading the backer NPC stories either!

 

 

Seriously though, I don't get those who have sworn off Obsidian games forever because of this thing. What are you gonna play now? Bioware games? Elder Scrolls? It's not like Obsidian has, like, any competitors at what they do.

I think you forgot Larian and inExile.... ;-)

 

 

Larian? Haven't you heard, they caved to SJW censorship too. The early concept art for the two Original Sin main characters had him in sensible armour and her in cleavage-y boobplate. When people complained about this, the art was changed so that both characters worse sensible armour. Or as sensible as armour ever gets in Larian games.

 

All those spikes, man.

 

Interesting, I liked the armor. )

 

That is sad to hear though. Guess it is just inExile....

 

 

Considering dev overlap and cooperation between Obsidian and InXile, I'd honestly be surprised if they'd have a significantly different company culture over there, come to think of it.

 

Guess you could always play Shadowrun? Oh wait, they sent GGers away, too. How sad. 

 

They sent all of them away. I know, i am a backer of the Shadowrun games too. ;-)

[ComradeGoby]

I regret backing these spineless cowards

 

Have fun designing games that are forced to fit some group's definitions of right.

 

Can't have thoughtcrime now can we.

 

ALL HAIL "FREEDOM"

 

ALL HAIL CENSORING EVERY SINGLE THING THAT OFFENDS SOMEONE

Edited April 3, 2015 by ComradeGoby

[YourFaceIsTriggeringMe]

I love how you think anyone will take you guys professed motives seriously when your posts lecture about how misgendering is ok.

 

Like, credibility went all the way out the window there.

Do you even know what "misgendering" means? Would you care to point me to what posts "misgender" somebody? I've been reading the replies here and I haven't seen anybody misgender anybody else. I might have glided over those parts you see so clearly, or you might just be making up words and definitions, like that twitter person and their "transmisogyny".

 

Here are some definitions:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/misgender

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/misgender