Gfted1 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I haven't followed any of the latest evolutions of the story so maybe facts have changed but last I heard the helicopter that got shot down was 45-60 minutes ahead of his flight. Might as well claim he was in a Hummer two cities over that got blasted with an IED. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Doesn't make much difference- Clinton's 'misrecollection' was over something that happened the previous day, iirc. If you want a really extreme example 'recovered memories' may be absolutely, literally and completely impossible. Doesn't stop the person having them think that are also 100% true though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Aaron Sorkin had written/produced some of my favorite television shows and movies that are intelligent, high-minded, informative, and obviously well researched. Credits include: Sports Night, The West Wing, A Few Good Men, The American President, Charlie Wilson's War, Moneyball, and The Social Network. He's also written a few duds (relative for his standards) such as Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, and yes, The Newsroom. Thing is, The Newsroom would be Jon Stewart's idealized version of what a cable news show should be. The show doesn't really work because of its preachy and condensing nature and well, sometimes Sorkin needs to get off his soapbox because he's not nearly as funny as Stewart while ripping contemporary news media. I really like The Newsroom. Wish they hadn't changed the intro tune in season 2. Season 1s was way better. ACN would be the news I'd watch. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Aaron Sorkin had written/produced some of my favorite television shows and movies that are intelligent, high-minded, informative, and obviously well researched. Credits include: Sports Night, The West Wing, A Few Good Men, The American President, Charlie Wilson's War, Moneyball, and The Social Network. He's also written a few duds (relative for his standards) such as Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, and yes, The Newsroom. Thing is, The Newsroom would be Jon Stewart's idealized version of what a cable news show should be. The show doesn't really work because of its preachy and condensing nature and well, sometimes Sorkin needs to get off his soapbox because he's not nearly as funny as Stewart while ripping contemporary news media. I really like The Newsroom. Wish they hadn't changed the intro tune in season 2. Season 1s was way better. ACN would be the news I'd watch. As I mentioned I love The Newsroom but if you asked me what I found unrealistic is the way that they are all so witty and clever, no one is that clever all the time "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Aaron Sorkin had written/produced some of my favorite television shows and movies that are intelligent, high-minded, informative, and obviously well researched. Credits include: Sports Night, The West Wing, A Few Good Men, The American President, Charlie Wilson's War, Moneyball, and The Social Network. He's also written a few duds (relative for his standards) such as Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, and yes, The Newsroom. Thing is, The Newsroom would be Jon Stewart's idealized version of what a cable news show should be. The show doesn't really work because of its preachy and condensing nature and well, sometimes Sorkin needs to get off his soapbox because he's not nearly as funny as Stewart while ripping contemporary news media. I really like The Newsroom. Wish they hadn't changed the intro tune in season 2. Season 1s was way better. ACN would be the news I'd watch. As I mentioned I love The Newsroom but if you asked me what I found unrealistic is the way that they are all so witty and clever, no one is that clever all the time When I was growing up we had one of the old 10' satellite dishes. Back in those days you could get the live feed from the networks, no commercials. So we got to see what the news anchors did when the commercials were on. It gives you a real insight into what kind of people they were. I remember being impressed by John Chancellor from NBC, he was always nice to the set crew. Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw were total jerks. An amazing amount of rehearsal when into what they were going to say though. Very little of what happens on the camera is spontaneous. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I feel it should be pointed out that we live in a News environment that's more about making headlines and catching viewers than about the truth. CNN decided to change how they do news because they saw that when they had (false) lines on the Boston Bombers and who the FBI were looking for (which were incorrect) all of a sudden their viewership shot up meaning more ad revenue for the company. I think Stewart himself brought this up in one of his many many many MANY diatribes about how bad the news situation in America has gotten. The reason that the Cable media has really latched onto this is because the NBC nightly news generally is more watched than either of it's competitors (according to the Q4 ratings I found) and represents probably the biggest ongoing threat to the 24 hour networks continued relevance as people realize just how much inane babble those channels actually produce. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 OTOH, being in a helicopter convoy in which the first helicopter is shot at is a short, one off event with no obvious long term consquence. What Williams did is more an exaggeration than a full out fabrication, much as Clinton's was- there was the very real risk of them getting shot at and someone did get shot at, it just wasn't actually them. It is quite a small step from 'this happened to someone nearby' to 'this happened to me'. So...its not lying when you don't tell the facts about what happened in the factual way they happened? I'm not saying he isn't necessarily incorrect about confusing the events - you tell a story enough times and/or with enough detail most people can insert themselves into it whether it happened to them or not. The fact that he was doing this as early as 4 years after the fact makes me think this isn't a case of confused memory, but still I'll accept that it could have happened. But exagerration ("The fish I caught was THIIIIIIIIIIS big!") is a form of lying in the context of telling a supposedly factual story. It may be excusable, but it's still lying. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yes, I agree pretty much totally- it's certainly lying as he was factually incorrect. As you say, exaggeration is definitely a form of lying. But, I'd say that exaggeration is one of the most common and mildest forms of lying as well as one of the more understandable ones. I know I've done it plenty, both consciously and unconsciously. And you do quite often believe that the exaggeration is true yourself, that the fish really was that big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 For me, it is more of a question of gain. He was already credible just being in the area, he had no real justification to try and exxagerate, and clearly it cost him tremendously to do so. So I really doubt it was intentional, that would make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I dunno, simply being there isn't nearly as impressive as being directly involved in what's happening. That's not to take anything away from him because he was risking his life by being there but it's a better story if he actually narrowly escapes death. At this point hasn't he been caught up in a few other lies as well? Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsuelm Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Most of the people in the main stream media habitually lie. It's rare though that they are called out and the person doing the calling out isn't immediately marginalized as a nutjob, if they even gain a voice, in that media. The internet has allowed more and more people who would never otherwise have a national voice to call people out (it hasn't stopped the marginalization though). Most of the people you see sitting in the anchor chair have extremely inflated egos. They're narcissistic and some are even sociopaths. Telling grandiose lies, especially lies aggrandizing what one has done, isn't exactly out of character for such a person. Williams was talking about a subject (the Iraq war) where aggrandizing is his job. The mainstream media in the US continually pumps up the need for the military, that those in the military are heroes, goes out of it's way to justify US military actions, etc in order to sell war. Brian got a little carried away perhaps, but he was already in nonobjective propaganda lying mode. He's not worthy of any pity. He's paying a much smaller price for the lies he's told than a lot of other people out there. Brian is maybe worthy of a little thumbs up though, as he actually admitted and apologized for his mistake (one of them anyways), but I'm not sure under what conditions he did this (pressure? a conscience? something else?). Most of the time the mainstream media does not acknowledge their lies (intentional or not), so in a small way he might be a little better than most of his peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, But it's not like it's ever been any different. It's you who has grown up and become wiser and more critical - if you believe it used to be different it's probably because you remember accepting things without a thought as a youngster. 1 "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, But it's not like it's ever been any different. It's you who has grown up and become wiser and more critical - if you believe it used to be different it's probably because you remember accepting things without a thought as a youngster. I would argue we are in the greatest era of mankind ever seen. We have made so many technological advancements in fields like medicine and science...how can this not be a fantastic time to live ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, But it's not like it's ever been any different. It's you who has grown up and become wiser and more critical - if you believe it used to be different it's probably because you remember accepting things without a thought as a youngster. I suppose there is a lot of truth to that. But I do think news media and political figures were trusted more in the pre-internet days because it was so much harder to catch them in lies. Remember, I grew up in te 70's & early 80's. We didn't have the information we do these days. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, But it's not like it's ever been any different. It's you who has grown up and become wiser and more critical - if you believe it used to be different it's probably because you remember accepting things without a thought as a youngster. I would argue we are in the greatest era of mankind ever seen. We have made so many technological advancements in fields like medicine and science...how can this not be a fantastic time to live ? Oh no argument there. I was just commenting on how hard it is to trust anyone anymore. To quote Robert Hess "I wake up every day hoping to meet an honest man. I go to bed disappointed almost every night" "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 You have to admit the world is in a screwed up state these days. Is there any one, politician, media figure, etc, who can be 100% trusted if they say "This is so". I can't name one, But it's not like it's ever been any different. It's you who has grown up and become wiser and more critical - if you believe it used to be different it's probably because you remember accepting things without a thought as a youngster. I would argue we are in the greatest era of mankind ever seen. We have made so many technological advancements in fields like medicine and science...how can this not be a fantastic time to live ? Oh no argument there. I was just commenting on how hard it is to trust anyone anymore. To quote Robert Hess "I wake up every day hoping to meet an honest man. I go to bed disappointed almost every night" Ah yes, okay I see your point. My bad "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh no argument there. I was just commenting on how hard it is to trust anyone anymore. To quote Robert Hess "I wake up every day hoping to meet an honest man. I go to bed disappointed almost every night" Well, thinking about that it's not that hard - you have to trust a lot of people any given day. I've had to trust the elevator guy to have done a good job, the girl at the coffee shop to not poison me. Hm, though I suppose the "not murder me" standard might be holding the bar too low - it's actually interesting to think on the many ways you can die from some nutjob - poisoning your food, push you in the road or on subway tracks, just stab you in a crowded sidewalk, etc. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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