I learned that fights don't give you experience

[Luckmann]

P:E stands on more than one leg. Remember the original pitch? Hero + companions, exploration, combat, and writing.

 

"Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment."

 

Hahahaha, dear god. Sheeeesh, Obsidian, don't try to undersell it or anything.

 

 

If the information we have right now is anything to go by, they've already failed on both the "memorable companions of Baldur's Gate" (only 8 companions, hardly enough to fill a single party, let alone do anything remotely resembling being close to Baldur's Gate) and the "epic exploration of Baldur's Gate" (considerably less wilderness areas to even be explored) and the "intense combat of Icewind Dale" (largely due to how the engagement system currently works).

 

I'm not saying that PoE isn't going to be a good game, in fact I think that it's probably going to be quite good. But dear lord did they oversell it.

 

[Yellow Rabbit]

...they've already failed on both the "memorable companions of Baldur's Gate" (only 8 companions, hardly enough to fill a single party, let alone do anything remotely resembling being close to Baldur's Gate)...

What does number of companions have to do with their memorability? Actually, it's quite the opposite, less on quantity should make it more on quality.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

So your complaint was that there was no kill xp and now that they added kill XP, your complaint is that it encourages you kill things for XP? Sounds like there's no pleasing certain people. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Ah Quetzacoatl. I see you haven't learnt any reading or comprehension since being on these forums over the last couple of years, or are you still in primary school? It'd be good if you actually read, comprehend, maybe go away for a while and digest what I wrote. And then perhaps respond with some of that limited understanding you might have achieved before jumping in half còcked, because that is not what I said.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Luckmann]

 

...they've already failed on both the "memorable companions of Baldur's Gate" (only 8 companions, hardly enough to fill a single party, let alone do anything remotely resembling being close to Baldur's Gate)...

What does number of companions have to do with their memorability? Actually, it's quite the opposite, less on quantity should make it more on quality.

 

Nothing. But if you want to evoke Baldur's Gate as an inspiration for companions, there should be loads more than 8. I wasn't commenting at all on memorability, but the plurality. Planescape: Torment also had very, very few CNPC:s (but they worked them differently, so it was alright) but they were all amazingly memorable, but they chose to sell the CNPC:s using Baldur's Gate as an example.

[Lephys]

Ah Quetzacoatl. I see you haven't learnt any reading or comprehension since being on these forums over the last couple of years, or are you still in primary school? It'd be good if you actually read, comprehend, maybe go away for a while and digest what I wrote. And then perhaps respond with some of that limited understanding you might have achieved before jumping in half còcked, because that is not what I said.

In the amount of time it took to type that response, you could have simply pointed out to him what you believe he failed to comprehend. Seems a bit more constructive than using a small paragraph just to describe precisely how inadequate you believe his comprehension skills to be. *shrug*

[morhilane]

If obsidian gave 1xp point on the first kills and then nothing more just like Witcher 2 nothing of this would happen

 

It's kind of funny that you mention The Witcher 2.

 

The Witcher 1 had kill XP and it was the main way to gain levels. The Witcher 2 moved to monsters giving almost no XP. The Witcher 3 totally removed kill XP, only quests content provide XP now...and I haven't seen anyone complain about it on the Witcher forums.

Edited January 22, 2015 by morhilane

[Ondb]

 

If obsidian gave 1xp point on the first kills and then nothing more just like Witcher 2 nothing of this would happen

 

It's kind of funny that you mention The Witcher 2.

 

The Witcher 1 had kill XP and it was the main way to gain levels. The Witcher 2 moved to monsters giving almost no XP. The Witcher 3 totally removed kill XP, only quests content provide XP now...and I haven't seen anyone complain about it on the Witcher forums.

 

 

Its kind of funny that you forgot that Witcher 3 is now open world sandbox as Skyrim, with enemies which does not scale to player level.

 

Removing the kill XP was only solution to following problem:

1/ Starting player ignores main quests, any quest...

2/ Goes to wilderness and gain new levels

3/ Making any main quests enemies trivial in process

 

This was discussed for months in forums. Its impossible to have no scaling to player level and kill XP in enemies at the same time in open world sandbox game.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Ondb

[morhilane]

 

 

If obsidian gave 1xp point on the first kills and then nothing more just like Witcher 2 nothing of this would happen

 

It's kind of funny that you mention The Witcher 2.

 

The Witcher 1 had kill XP and it was the main way to gain levels. The Witcher 2 moved to monsters giving almost no XP. The Witcher 3 totally removed kill XP, only quests content provide XP now...and I haven't seen anyone complain about it on the Witcher forums.

 

 

Its kind of funny that you forgot that Witcher 3 is now open world sandbox as Skyrim, with enemies which does not scale to player level.

 

Removing the kill XP was only solution to following problem:

1/ Starting player ignores main quests, any quest...

2/ Goes to wilderness and gain new levels

3/ Making any main quests enemies trivial in process

 

This was discussed for months in forums. Its impossible to have no scaling to player level and kill XP in enemies at the same time in open world sandbox game.

 

 

Considering I haven't forgotten that The Witcher 3 is a no-level scaling open world game, I don't see how you can find it funny in any way. My comment was about the evolution of the XP systems that CDProjekt was already trying to abandon with The Witcher 2 despite how the first game started and they finally abandoned it with the 3rd game.

 

Also, I thank you to have given another reasons why kill XP is bad for PoE...

[illathid]

Poe is NOT a narrative based game. It's a combat based game.

 

Combat and narrative are not mutually exclusive, so what you're saying is nonsensical. As I explained above, on the sandbox/narrative scale PoE is much closer to the narrative end than the sandbox end. However, both narrative and sandbox games can be combat heavy or combat light. As you say, PoE will likely be combat heavy.

[Sarex]

Combat and narrative are not mutually exclusive, so what you're saying is nonsensical. As I explained above, on the sandbox/narrative scale PoE is much closer to the narrative end than the sandbox end. However, both narrative and sandbox games can be combat heavy or combat light. As you say, PoE will likely be combat heavy.

 

You can skip the narrative, you can't skip the combat. So yeah...

[illathid]

 

Combat and narrative are not mutually exclusive, so what you're saying is nonsensical. As I explained above, on the sandbox/narrative scale PoE is much closer to the narrative end than the sandbox end. However, both narrative and sandbox games can be combat heavy or combat light. As you say, PoE will likely be combat heavy.

 

You can skip the narrative, you can't skip the combat. So yeah...

 

 

Sure you can, you do it the same way (i.e. by not playing the game). Even if you refuse to read a single line of text in the game, by completeing any step of a quest you are engaging with the game's narrative.

 

Hyperbole aside, it's fine that you prefer sandbox style game play. However, sandbox gameplay is ubiqitous in modern RPG design, strong narrative gameplay is not. As such I see no reason for PoE to cater to sandbox crowd, when they can get their fix so many other places.

[gogocactus]

 

 

 

 

If obsidian gave 1xp point on the first kills and then nothing more just like Witcher 2 nothing of this would happen

It's kind of funny that you mention The Witcher 2.

 

The Witcher 1 had kill XP and it was the main way to gain levels. The Witcher 2 moved to monsters giving almost no XP. The Witcher 3 totally removed kill XP, only quests content provide XP now...and I haven't seen anyone complain about it on the Witcher forums.

Its kind of funny that you forgot that Witcher 3 is now open world sandbox as Skyrim, with enemies which do not scale to player level.

 

This was discussed for months in forums. Its impossible to have no scaling to player level and kill XP in enemies at the same time in open world sandbox game.

The fantastic Gothic rpg games series had a gigantic open world filled with enemies that did not scale to level but did gave you kill xp, and it worked wonderfully well. Edited January 23, 2015 by gogocactus

[Hassat Hunter]

*cough* Morrowind... although it got rather easy in the end, but that's pretty much true for all TES.

 

And do I *really* need to make another "Conversations should give XP, no-one is going to read your stupid conversations unless XP! OE are idiots for not including conversation XP!" mocking thread... Seeing the way this discussion goes to, I might.

[Nakia]

Personally I like the idea of getting XP for killing random beasts/monsters but when doing a quest getting  XP for the quest rather than killing.  To me this seems more balanced and fairer to different choices and styles of playing.

[Alaswing]

Action games like Metal Gear Revengeance, Ninja Gaiden and God Hand have combat xp which varies on whether you killed enemies quickly and stylishly.  It makes sense in these games for skill to be rewarded.

 

Not so much in arrpeegee, where all you do is click on enemies and watch them die. Zero skill involved.

 

Yeah this is what i believe, i think it would be ok if you really would use your skills, but no, you are going to click on some beast/monster, then you are going to spam some magic, and if you are stronger you win, if you are not you lose, using skills like HoonDing says for example ninja gaiden where you can jump, hack, slash, run, etc. then would be acceptable, you could kill some strong beast using your skills. i'm not saying that the arguments of any one of here are invalid, just saying when i backed this game there was no info on this no xp for combat thing, being honest, i was looking for an old school rpg, combat xp included, then i surprise myself realizing this, and i feel a little disappointed because i´ve waited so long for a good old school rpg, but any way, i already bought it so, i think ill play it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

[Viperswhip]

There were about 5 mandatory fights in Planescape Torment, and in other fights it was just that talking or conning your way out of it through conversation yielded more experience and bonuses. Widely considered by old folks like me to be the best RPG ever (but I am a big adventure gamer, so maybe that's why), fights only giving loot is totally fine with me.

 

I can't think of them specifically but many games simply give exp for quest completion, which often includes battles, so you don't get exp for ganking random groups on the world map...oh well.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Viperswhip

[Azmodiuz]

I like the way PoE did the xp. So long as there are alot of different beasts to get xp for, and decently interesting loot, and situations.

PoE is not like Torment that much, I suspect more battles are manditory, if even only because they literally physically block your path and are automatically hostile.

[Headbomb]

'If it's not broken don't fix it' comes to mind. I just hope all the fixing of things that weren't broken doesn't diminish the quality of the game experience. Unfortunately I don't know of a single game out there that had a lot of things fixed that weren't broken come out for the better. I most certainly am hoping that PoE is the exception.

 

 

Indeed. Except combat XP was broken. So they fixed it. Bestiary XP is awesome, and more games should use that instead. It's a shame Obsidian caved in on Trap/Lock XP and added it to the game. Now you don't have a choice but to farm every trap and lock.

[Valsuelm]

 

'If it's not broken don't fix it' comes to mind. I just hope all the fixing of things that weren't broken doesn't diminish the quality of the game experience. Unfortunately I don't know of a single game out there that had a lot of things fixed that weren't broken come out for the better. I most certainly am hoping that PoE is the exception.

 

 

Indeed. Except combat XP was broken. So they fixed it. Bestiary XP is awesome, and more games should use that instead. It's a shame Obsidian caved in on Trap/Lock XP and added it to the game. Now you don't have a choice but to farm every trap and lock.

 

 

No... it wasn't broken, and yea... you do have a choice.

 

Also, to each their own, but I humbly suggest you never 'farm' anything when playing an RPG. You'll likely enjoy it much more. Though I suppose there are some out there that like to 'farm', you lament thinking you have to, so... simply don't. Or play something else.

 

The concepts of 'farming' or 'grinding' have become increasingly common in the last decade when discussing various video games. I contend that if one thinks it's 'farming' or 'grinding' that the game is not inherently fun, or the person engaging in it has a somewhat masochistic idea of what fun is. At the very least it's usually a glass half empty approach.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Cantousent]

I was wondering when the Romance thread was so active what happened to the heated combat XP debate.

 

Well, if we haven't found the universally accepted solution in the first few thousand pages, I'm sure we'll get there in the next few.  lol

 

For me, I wish we didn't have the lock/trap xp, but I think it's too easy to get into an uproar over the xp system.  We have these huge debates as if the manner of earning xp is the only thing that matters.  I mean, it does matter, but even in terms of gameplay I think combat systems and abilities etc. are more important.

[Headbomb]

It was certainly broken and rewarded psychopath play styles above everything.  Quest to favour one faction over the other? Fight the baddies on one side. Get XP. Turn the quest in. Get XP. Now fight second faction (even though you've just sided with them). Get XP. Choose a diplomatic option? Miss out on combat XP. And then you have the rat-hunting quests to milk every last bit of XP from the game. This is broken.

 

Now what you have is quest XP. You resolve the quest however you like, you get the same XP bonus. The only combat-related XP you get is for learning about creatures in the world. The first 7 bears you kill will give you XP. After that, you've learned all there is to know about fighting bears, and get no more XP for that. No more exploit, no more rewarding the kill-everything-that-moves psychopath path over all others.

 

 

This is why lock/trap XP is so bad. Find a key? Don't use it, you'll get more XP out of unlocking things yourself. And now you must bring a rogue-type, or miss out on lock/trap XP.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Headbomb

[CaptainMace]

This is why lock/trap XP is so bad. Find a key? Don't use it, you'll get more XP out of unlocking things yourself. And now you must bring a rogue-type, or miss out on lock/trap XP.

 

Sometimes there's never any key. Or the amount of xp is so irrelevant that it's not even worth it to bother picking unnecessary locks and disarming traps you can avoid. Like BG1, there's a tonne of traps at some level of Durlag tower, who would bother disarming all of 'em when taking a single doppleganger down is worth more, and you'd just have one rest encounter to meet one.

[Gfted1]

I hope we get some sweet sweet xp from upgrading our stronghold. Also; enchanting, finding grimoires, finding chants and finding whatever the hell Ciphers use.

[Kal Adan]

I am fine with fights not giving you xp. I wasn't fighting for the xp in any IE game, including Baldur's Gate series.

[Azmodiuz]

I fight for XP !  \o/

But I like PoE's system. For xp that is.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Azmodiuz