Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Orogun01]

Joystiq removed scores from their game reviews. Still on bad terms with them, but that's a huge step in the right direction.

Why? I like game scores, they save me the time of reading through the whole article.

[Blarghagh]

They're going to be using little information brackets and summaries so you can still tell their opinion at a glance, but it solves the problem of having oversimplified scores (what on earth does "graphics" still mean nowadays?), shuts up annoying fanboys whining about how "everyone else gave it a 9 out of 10, you moron", means that culture criticism nonsense can't as easily still be mistaken for consumer advocacy that most people expect reviews are and most importantly, if others follow suit which they most likely will, it will hopefully take Metacritic out of the equation entirely as a factor so we will never have a situation like what happened with Obsidian and Bethesda's nasty contract over New Vegas metacritic score which ended up with many an Obsidianite losing their job.

[Lexx]

Just read the last 10 sentences.

[Blarghagh]

Their press release states they're going to add a little box with a summary of key points and whether or not they liked it to every review.

[Volourn]

"Don't think McIntosh is supporting the killers,"

\

He quite clearly does support them. Not surprising. Afterall, this is a guy who brags about the murder of all gamers espicially female gamers who disagree with him. That's what nazis do.

[Keyrock]

You will never solve the problem of annoying fanboys shouting about stuff.  They'll just shout about something different than numbers. 

 

Anyway, I'm all for trying to make a positive change.  I very much have my doubts about this succeeding, but I'll do my part to try to help it do so.  If I flushed $25 down the toilet then so be it, it's not the end of the world.  Potentially getting Metacritic surgically removed from gaming's arse is worth a $25 risk to me (plus the time I'm going to put in on the site).  I'm assuming they'll have user reviews too, I hope.  I plan to write a bunch up with as much detail and as little bias as I can muster up.  If they do, I hope the place doesn't get flooded with the stupid "This game set my cat on fire.  10/10 would set cat on fire again" joke reviews.  Those don't help anyone.  Hopefully they'll have a forum too, if so you'll see me on there likely (I already got my username reserved, same as this one).

Edited January 13, 2015 by Keyrock

[Blarghagh]

Huh, all I said was indeed also applicable to BasedGamer succeeding, but my last post was actually about Joystiq taking scoring out of their review system.

[Keyrock]

Huh, all I said was indeed also applicable to BasedGamer succeeding, but my last post was actually about Joystiq taking scoring out of their review system.

Yeah, sorry about the confusion, I was slightly confused a bit myself.  That's what I get sneaking in reading posts and making them while at work. 

 

But yeah, it's applicable in either case.

[Blarghagh]

Although Jostiq (and others) removing scoring also increases the likelyhood that BasedGamer will succeed, since BasedGamer will aggregate all reviews. Metacritic will just ignore it since there's no numbers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Although Jostiq (and others) removing scoring also increases the likelyhood that BasedGamer will succeed, since BasedGamer will aggregate all reviews. Metacritic will just ignore it since there's no numbers.

Hopefully so, the metacritic method is really stupid.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

Don't think McIntosh is supporting the killers,  the whitelivesmatter thing doesn't even work though - standing up for Hebdo means you...what, don't care about Boko Haram's rampage shortly afterward?

 

What's funny is, I doubt his activism leaves a touchscreen.

 

I know it's not literally what he said but my interpretation (and since he's a postmodernist douche, my experience is all that matters) of his tweets is a very clear "I am not Charlie because they had it coming."

So he's arguing they deserved it because how they presented themselves? I wonder where I've heard a similar argument...

 

 

Yes, quite.

 

Thing is, there is actually a point there, though certainly not to the extreme extent of the past week's events. I know perfectly well that if I use my powers of free speech to go around a random selection of people telling them I boffed their mum last night then I will get a punch in reply at some point. That doesn't make the punch legal or 'justified' (though it might have a year or so ago, here, they fairly recently removed spontaneous justifiable anger/ provocation as a potential defence) but at the same time I do know that I'm doing stuff that other people will get angry at, and while I might make some sort of justification for doing it- defence of free speech, post modernism, whatever- I'd really be doing it because I can.

 

I do find it ironic that Mr McIntosh, someone who clearly enjoys and frequently posts stuff which is deliberately offensive is complaining about and has no sympathy for someone else doing exactly the same. To be honest though, both sides of the GG debate are fairly frequently ironic in that respect- antiGG are beasts, beasts, for celebrating getting person X fired for supporting GG; now let's celebrate someone with blue hair getting fired and hope it was for being antiGG since that is Totally Different.

[Longknife]

 

 

Don't think McIntosh is supporting the killers,  the whitelivesmatter thing doesn't even work though - standing up for Hebdo means you...what, don't care about Boko Haram's rampage shortly afterward?

 

What's funny is, I doubt his activism leaves a touchscreen.

 

I know it's not literally what he said but my interpretation (and since he's a postmodernist douche, my experience is all that matters) of his tweets is a very clear "I am not Charlie because they had it coming."

So he's arguing they deserved it because how they presented themselves? I wonder where I've heard a similar argument...

 

 

 

He has another tweet where he's basically crying foul that, apparently there have be 18 attacks ("attacks" ranging anywhere from verbal abuse to beheading a pig and leaving the head on a mosque's doorstep to physical confrontations) on Muslims in french communities since the attack took place, yet none of those made headline international news.

 

 

  To me he's basically implying France only cares about white people.

[Longknife]

 

 

What has gotten into them lately....?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

What has gotten into them lately....?

Seeing as his twitter handle is in tribute to srhbutts, I assume the answer to that is "a dog".

 

 

 

 

Don't think McIntosh is supporting the killers,  the whitelivesmatter thing doesn't even work though - standing up for Hebdo means you...what, don't care about Boko Haram's rampage shortly afterward?

 

What's funny is, I doubt his activism leaves a touchscreen.

 

I know it's not literally what he said but my interpretation (and since he's a postmodernist douche, my experience is all that matters) of his tweets is a very clear "I am not Charlie because they had it coming."

 

So he's arguing they deserved it because how they presented themselves? I wonder where I've heard a similar argument...

 

 

 

He has another tweet where he's basically crying foul that, apparently there have be 18 attacks ("attacks" ranging anywhere from verbal abuse to beheading a pig and leaving the head on a mosque's doorstep to physical confrontations) on Muslims in french communities since the attack took place, yet none of those made headline international news.

 

 

  To me he's basically implying France only cares about white people.

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by KaineParker

[Keyrock]

 

 

What has gotten into them lately....?

Ironically, Mr. Warbutts is correct.  If you do stay silent on #Gamergate and do not denounce antiGG (specifically the SJW extremists at the rotten core of antiGG), who very much operate through fear and intimidation, which is pretty much the definition of terrorism, albeit less violent (so far at least) than what is normally associated with that term, then you are turning a blind eye and enabling them.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Keyrock

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

What has gotten into them lately....?

Ironically, Mr. Warbutts is correct.  If you do stay silent on #Gamergate and do not denounce antiGG (specifically the SJW extremists at the rotten core of antiGG), who very much operate through fear and intimidation, which is pretty much the definition of terrorism, albeit less violent (so far at least) than what is normally associated with that term, then you are turning a blind eye and enabling them.

 

 

What you guys probably don't realise is this constant diatribe against SJW, calling them Nazis....calling them evil...associating them with terrorism is just misplaced venting and hyperbole 

 

At least you use the terms " SJW extremist " and try not to  generalize. But imagine going to someone outside this debate and saying

 " OMG these SJW are terrorists  "....

" why what did they do, are they like the Paris attackers  " 

" no they are people who want more equality in games and push inclusivity "

"but they  are terrorists correct, like Al-Qaeda " 

" well no, they are just bloggers and people who comment through social media about changes they want to see in gaming industry" 

 

" Oh......but you say they are terrorists ....I'm confused " 

 

And yes elements of anti-GG are also guilty of this behavior and invective

 

This whole discussion has just become toxic and unhelpful which is why I have decided to not participate anymore in it, except for the odd comment 

[Orogun01]

I'm sure that the opposition is far more polite; bring back proof.

[BruceVC]

I'm sure that the opposition is far more polite; bring back proof.

 

 I clearly stated the anti-GG side is also guilty of this...thats why I said this whole debate has just become toxic 

[Blarghagh]

It's been this way for the entire duration.

[Orogun01]

 

I'm sure that the opposition is far more polite; bring back proof.

 

 I clearly stated the anti-GG side is also guilty of this...thats why I said this whole debate has just become toxic 

 

Great, tell the anti GG that they're being toxic and have them take responsibility for their harassers and hold their figureheads accountable when they mess up. You know damn well how toxic the SJWs where well before this, now they're getting some opposition which of course is going to escalate the situation. But there's an imperative to purge the toxic elements from gaming.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I'm sure that the opposition is far more polite; bring back proof.

 

 I clearly stated the anti-GG side is also guilty of this...thats why I said this whole debate has just become toxic 

 

Great, tell the anti GG that they're being toxic and have them take responsibility for their harassers and hold their figureheads accountable when they mess up. You know damn well how toxic the SJWs where well before this, now they're getting some opposition which of course is going to escalate the situation. But there's an imperative to purge the toxic elements from gaming.

 

 

Yes I would raise issues on toxicity if there was anti-GG thread on a forum that I was active on

 

But I want to say something else. I have been thinking about why on this thread I have been accused of debating in bad faith, trolling and not answering questions. Normally I wouldn't take  these accusations seriously as I would write them off as people getting defensive and resorting to personal attacks on my opinion

 

But since these accusations are made by people who I consider reasonable I have  tried  to understand the criticisms better, especially  if I say I believe in the importance of mature and constructive debate. Also I have had and do have  many other discussions on other threads where I engage with people on topics where I don't seem to get lambasted as much and I find myself enjoying and understanding opposing views 

 

The reality is I just don't care about this this whole GG debate as much as  the active members on this thread, I don't see it as a big or relevant issue to my life or in RL for that matter. For me there are much more important issues I would prefer to discuss like ISIS and the machinations of the USA political machinery

 

And I know how seriously you guys take this topic or rather how much time you do spend on this topic, so I have decided its unfair and disingenuous of me to start discussions in this thread if I'm not going to give them the attention they deserve. In other words by not  responding to all questions and reading all links presented. Because the reality is I don't read all the information presented because its not that important to me 

 

So I'm not just going to stop commenting regularly on this thread because I think its toxic but I'm going to rather let people engage who want to have these long debates like TN and Longknife. You are entitled to have these discussions even if I personally don't think they are really that important. I know it would annoy me if someone kept commenting on one my debates who didn't seem to be taking it seriously 

 

So I'll occasionally comment and of course I'll raise other SJ issue outside  of this thread.

 

I wanted to  explain this because I don't want you guys to think I'm not commenting anymore just because its "toxic" ..that word is relative after all. Its more because I find myself just more willing to engage in other topics. I hope this makes sense and you don't see this as personal attack in anyway  

[Orogun01]

So you're only active on these forums?

It has been said even from the beginning stages of GG that they where a defensive paranoid bunch, it is a mixture of years of frustration at the state of the gaming industry couple with the growth of belligerent feminist elements that has lead to a large portion of GG being belligerent in turn. Since you're our resident SJW (don't stop that BTW we need dissent to have discussions) you might have been bearing a lot of burden coming from a Pro GG majority. Take it easy and summarize.

They might also have been filled with nerdrage as your tone made it evident that you didn't care as much about the issue.
 

 

I think the industry has needed change for years now and it is good to see that people are becoming more aware of it. It could have been on better terms but nothing in life is perfect, I also loathe SJWs (not you, the crazy ones( I keep telling you we need to come up with a better name for them although it might be easier to come up with a new name for you since you seem to be the odd man out)) and have nothing but contempt to what they are doing and have done to nerdom. They have brought their insane politics into everywhere and polarized the community.

[Fighter]

Any moderate statement by a game dev would have to tread on ice in order to not have you be branded a bigot by the so called tolerant social justice movement. Anything that isn't anti-gg enough or, haven forbid, contains even the slightest criticism of feminism and other "isms" would summon the outrage brigade with their pitchforks.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Fighter

[BruceVC]

So you're only active on these forums?

 

It has been said even from the beginning stages of GG that they where a defensive paranoid bunch, it is a mixture of years of frustration at the state of the gaming industry couple with the growth of belligerent feminist elements that has lead to a large portion of GG being belligerent in turn. Since you're our resident SJW (don't stop that BTW we need dissent to have discussions) you might have been bearing a lot of burden coming from a Pro GG majority. Take it easy and summarize.

 

They might also have been filled with nerdrage as your tone made it evident that you didn't care as much about the issue.

 

 

I think the industry has needed change for years now and it is good to see that people are becoming more aware of it. It could have been on better terms but nothing in life is perfect, I also loathe SJWs (not you, the crazy ones( I keep telling you we need to come up with a better name for them although it might be easier to come up with a new name for you since you seem to be the odd man out)) and have nothing but contempt to what they are doing and have done to nerdom. They have brought their insane politics into everywhere and polarized the community.

No I contribute on other forums like BSN and RPS but I probably am most active here 

 

I enjoyed this post of yours, nice one. I'll still raise SJ issues so no need to worry about that. But I want to raise valid issues...and not just something for the sake of raising something  and getting people all riled up Its got to be meaningful 

[Meshugger]

Lets see what good arguments the other side has: https://archive.today/2OTLD

 

 

#GamerGate, 8chan, and associated organisations can safely be labelled a domestic terrorist group at this point. Institutionalised harassment and terrorism runs straight to that group’s core. So report this **** to the police. Make sure they and others understand what is going on; that the internet is a real place and not some Cloud Cuckoo Land where nothing matters. The perpetrators will react disingenuously, claiming the attacks have nothing to do with them, or the targets somehow deserved it, or even that they never happened. They might react by threatening reprisals. But we do not negotiate with terrorists, nor should we be afraid of them. Something’s gotta be done, or we’re all going to suffer for it.

To #GamerGate and 8chan: stop.

To everyone else: stop them.

 

*sigh* Nope, same old doublethink.