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Combat XP - What Just Happened..?


Immortalis

What Just Happened  

280 members have voted

  1. 1. What Sources of Xp Do you think are justified?

    • Combat
      152
    • Quests
      264
    • 'Objectives' (Finishing Part of a Quest)
      233
    • Lock Picking / Trap Disabling
      118
    • Exploration
      207
    • Specific Combat Scenarios - Bosses or Special Encounters
      197
    • Bestiary Unlocking (With Limited XP To Be Gained)
      158


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Plus, some results failed to get more than a third votes. I think we can take lack of vote for an option means you *don't* want it.

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Just so everyone knows.. this poll changes the dynamics of the argument..

 

This is no longer a Us vs Them argument between combatXP and non-CombatXP.. This is only a discussion on which sources of XP should exist and why.. The fact Quests is outperforming Combat doesn't mean we should have quest and not have Combat..

 

It means more people think Quests are a viable source then Combat..

 

I wanted to stop people trolling and **** posting.. That's my job.. and just discuss the facts and pro's and con's of each option.

Edited by Immortalis
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From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Plus, some results failed to get more than a third votes. I think we can take lack of vote for an option means you *don't* want it.

 

Psychological studies have shown that something people really covet, and which is considered slightly shameful and dirty, is usually not picked when presented with that option in a questionnaire, for example:

 

"Do you like porn?"

"No."

 

"Would you like a drink right now?"

"No."

 

"Do your wash your hands after each bathroom visit?"

"Yes."

 

"Are you fit enough?"

"Yes."

 

"Do you want combat xp?"

"No."

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Plus, some results failed to get more than a third votes. I think we can take lack of vote for an option means you *don't* want it.

Psychological studies have shown that something people really covet, and which is considered slightly shameful and dirty, is usually not picked when presented with that option in a questionnaire, for example:

 

"Do you want combat xp?"

"No."

doofus! :Cant's **** eating grin icon:

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Psychological studies have shown that something people really covet, and which is considered slightly shameful and dirty, is usually not picked when presented with that option in a questionnaire, for example:

But is the questionnaire identifiable? This poll isn't (you can't see who voted for what), and generally speaking, people are going to be much more honest about what they want on a gaming forum even if swimming against a majority. The whole idea of "loud minority" is born out of venues like this. I wouldn't worry about any shaming part. :p Especially for backers in beta, you're going to want to speak up about your desires anyway, and if someone doesn't want to, that's no one else's problem but theirs.

 

Oh yeah, I voted 2,3,6.

Edited by Ieo
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The poll seems a little silly because in a fantasy world any source of XP can be "justified" with enough imagination.

 

Still, the discussion revolves mostly about what people want and I must confess I hardly want XP in the classic sense. Meaning it's hardly something fascinating no matter where it comes from. Too many games have it and it's almost always the same thing. What I want is a brave new concept. One thing I liked about the Banner Saga was how renown was both XP and currency. I guess it was a step in the right direction. Merging XP and currency may be wrong (depends on the setting) but the idea that character progression can be more exciting and involving than filling a bar until you "ding" is right.

 

Imagine a system where progression is tied, for example, to finding various "mutator" items that increase your magic affinity or make you harder to hit, etc. Maybe even changing your appearance little by little in the process. It's been done, I know. But combine it with a skill usage based system for skill progression and the end result is something rather uncommon and more interesting than plain old  XP. And the choices the player has to make can also be more meaningful than the usual "more" vs. "less.

 

It's off-topic of course because PoE will have a classic XP system anyway. But if you ask me what I dream of - well, anything but watching the same bar to fill slowly 20 times over.

Edited by prodigydancer
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I've always thought the don't care option was best represented by not voting.

 

Not so much - if you don't vote you don't exist in the poll - not caring where the experience comes from and/or whether it's justified or not is still a valid answer to the polls question and a valid opinion to add to the conversation whether or not the poll designer chooses to add it - accept it - or poke fun at it.

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Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Strictly speaking, my wandering friend, I'd think that 'don't care' is entirely represented by not voting.  After all, you're happy with whatever anyone decides.  This is an entirely affirmative poll.  There is no 'don't care' option because you can vote all the things about which you 'do care.'  However, I think you could make a case for including the option 'whatever the design team's instinct is.'  Don't care seems to me to put yourself out of the argument altogether.  I think it probably has some value in a poll with a single choice, but not as much in this one.  Anyhow, out of curiosity, did you vote and for which options?  I voted for quest/objective/Specific Encounters/and beastiary (which I've never really liked but always saw as a decent compromise for some folks).

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I just picked "objectives" (not really sure why it's the only one that gets quotey marks out of all the options, heh), because it covers all the bases.

 

Killing this thing not part of any objective? All you get is non-XP rewards, potentially. Killing this other thing IS part of an objective? XP. Exploring the 10-foot space behind that farmer's barn isn't worthy of XP? Then it isn't an objective. Exploring those ruins, or this whole forest area, is? Then you get XP.

 

That's what it all comes down to, in the end, so it's honestly a little silly to designate entire categories of things that are going to yield XP, then have to go through and weed out the exceptions. Might as well just hand-pick what grants XP and what doesn't, from the get-go, since you're already doing it.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Over 100 voters, that calls for an updated graph! (Not that it has fundamentally changed...)

 

sQEGCVn.png

 

Edit:

Gotta wonder about the 4% who don't think that getting XP for completing quests is justified... I thought that was the one thing everyone agrees on? Do those voters not want there to be XP at all? Or were they just "tactical" votes to try and increase their favoured XP source's standing compared to all other options? If anyone from that group feels like explaining, I'd be genuinely interested... :D

Edited by Ineth
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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Strictly speaking, my wandering friend, I'd think that 'don't care' is entirely represented by not voting.  After all, you're happy with whatever anyone decides.  This is an entirely affirmative poll.  There is no 'don't care' option because you can vote all the things about which you 'do care.'  However, I think you could make a case for including the option 'whatever the design team's instinct is.'  Don't care seems to me to put yourself out of the argument altogether.

 

The number of people who cared enough to vote but didn't care enough about the outcome is important, statistically speaking. While we're at it, so is the number of people who refused to take the poll at all (not that we can expect to get that number from a straw poll).

Edited by CatatonicMan
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Just so everyone knows.. this poll changes the dynamics of the argument..

 

This is no longer a Us vs Them argument between combatXP and non-CombatXP.. This is only a discussion on which sources of XP should exist and why.. The fact Quests is outperforming Combat doesn't mean we should have quest and not have Combat..

 

It means more people think Quests are a viable source then Combat..

 

I wanted to stop people trolling and **** posting.. That's my job.. and just discuss the facts and pro's and con's of each option.

 

Bro, I respect and agree with your point here, but I feel obliged to point out: we're on the internet. It's always us vs. them on the internet. Unless you're one of them. Then it's ME vs YOU. AND YOUR GOIN DOWN

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Strictly speaking, my wandering friend, I'd think that 'don't care' is entirely represented by not voting.  After all, you're happy with whatever anyone decides.  This is an entirely affirmative poll.  There is no 'don't care' option because you can vote all the things about which you 'do care.'  However, I think you could make a case for including the option 'whatever the design team's instinct is.'  Don't care seems to me to put yourself out of the argument altogether.

 

The number of people who cared enough to vote but didn't care enough about the outcome is important, statistically speaking. While we're at it, so is the number of people who refused to take the poll at all (not that we can expect to get that number from a straw poll).

 

 

This exactly... :thumbsup:

 

And I did vote...

 

for everything except combat... ;)

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Btw, thanks for the proper graphs, Ineth. That is indeed the best way to present it (IMO) because it then reads "XX% of people think this is a justified source of XP." So if XX is above 50, a majority of voters think that option is justified. Easy and clear.

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While it would be good to know how many people didn't care or saw the vote and ignored it, we don't know either. That said, if someone doesn't care enough to vote then why should their preferences (which we can assume to be neutral) matter?

 

Don't misinterpret this as me saying the opinions of the people not on this forum don't matter! That's not what I said. Just that the opinions of those who ARE on the forum BUT don't want to vote don't matter (for the purposes of OE judging what the backers think, anyway). That's how polls work - if you don't vote, you have chosen not to have a voice.

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While it would be good to know how many people didn't care or saw the vote and ignored it, we don't know either. That said, if someone doesn't care enough to vote then why should their preferences (which we can assume to be neutral) matter?

 

Don't misinterpret this as me saying the opinions of the people not on this forum don't matter! That's not what I said. Just that the opinions of those who ARE on the forum BUT don't want to vote don't matter (for the purposes of OE judging what the backers think, anyway). That's how polls work - if you don't vote, you have chosen not to have a voice.

 

I would disagree - why shouldn't it matter to OE that in addition to the number of people who wished to choose which items they felt were justified there was another group of people that really didn't care about that - those people are expressing an opinion as well - (I believe this whole side discussion came about because someone mentioned that there was no option offered for don't know don't care or "other") That is in fact my point that in the interest of including as many backers as possible there should have been such a choice and that it has some significance.

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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I've always thought the don't care option was best represented by not voting.

 

Except it won't be represented in the result, that way.

 

I think Immortalis and you are too focused on only looking at it from the perspective of giving any potential person who has a firm opinion on the poll's issue, a platform to voice that opinion.

 

Whereas I also look at it from the perspective of gaining statistical data about where the community as a whole stands on an issue, and that requires additional considerations such as the aforementioned "Other" and "Don't know/care" options.

 

For example, imagine if this (or any other) poll uncovered that 90% of poll participants are in favour of an idea which until then, Obsidian didn't think anyone wanted. Don't you think it makes a big difference to know, whether the idea is in fact near-universally strongly wanted, or whether it's just a tiny organised minority that wants it, and a majority that isn't outspokenly against it but also doesn't see a benefit in it? In the second case, the cost of implementing the idea would only go towards improving the game for a few people, which may not be the best way to spend that time/money.

 

Also, note that in some cases, it actually is possible to have "Don't know/care" as a strong opinion which one would want to become a part of a poll's result, e.g. "I don't care which option the devs choose as long as they feel it's the right thing, and I don't want to let those other forum members control the narrative and make the devs think everyone wants them to implement whatever option ends up being most popular in this poll". Denying them that non-option is just as bad as any other potential bias or slant when creating a poll.

 

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Actually, my perspective is that we'll never make this a reliable poll for making important decisions. I just think of it as a fun poll and another excuse to argue with you guys

:Cant's wry grin icon;

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
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Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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Actually, my perspective is that we'll never make this a reliable poll for making important decisions. I just think of it as a fun poll and another excuse to argue with you guys

:Cant's wry grin icon;

 

Ditto... :yes:

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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