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Delayed to early 2015

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Just back from a week's holiday in no-internet-land - thumbs up for the decision Obs :thumbsup:

 

As much as I want to get my hands on the game sooner, I'd prefer to get my hands on the 'ready' version :)

 

Besides, it'll give me more time to buy my new machine and finish some writing.  Not to mention rendering out some more portraits / fan-art when I do get the machine :sorcerer:

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 We were really pushing for a release this year because we felt it was possible. I still think we could have done it if we needed to, but it would have been a death march for the team, it would have lacked polish, and it likely would have been a buggy experience. We want Eternity to be good. We all have a lot of pride in what we do. Plus, we want to give the backers a game that they can be proud to have backed.

 

 

I think you are being too pessimistic here and are attributing things to us that aren't true. We are genuine in our want to make this game a great experience and we realize that we need more time to do so. We want to be proud in what we release and make backers happy that they backed the game. Nothing nefarious in what we are saying.

 

Also, the feedback from the beta is gold. Not necessarily the bug reports - those are helpful, but our QA team has identified many of those issues - but we really get a lot out of seeing how people are playing the game. Seeing what people find enjoyable or things that are frustrating is very helpful for us. Keep in mind that, as developers, we don't always get to see the game in the same light as an end user. We try to put ourselves in the shoes of the player, but we have a different perspective on things.

 

The basic message is that we need additional time to get the game to where we want it to be. We are grateful that we have the time to do that.

 

 

 

Thanks, and I believe your decision was right. Trying to rephrase my argument less emotionally - I think postponing for a second time is an obvious indicator that something itsn't going as planned. I (personally) would have felt more reassured from an announcement that admitted this, and this one's wording gave me a feeling of insincerity.

 

I'm not saying anything groundbraking when I remind you that the game will be held up to very high standards, and there is no way a player should be looking at something, be that in early 2015 or later, and thinking "How come they didn't notice that?!".

 

I'll be very interested in trying out later versions of the beta. For me at least, the one we currently have is at a too early stage and I gave up trying to play it after 2-3 hours or so.


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Shoulda said KotOR 2 PJ :p

 

Which, of course, is a glorious example of why sometimes you should delay them. I honestly have a hard time remembering a cRPG that (a) wasn't delayed and (b) was any good and © did not get an obvious black eye from not being delayed.

 

Re the funding, they have been taking "slacker backers" all along, plus I'm sure they sold a fair few beta keys as well. I'd expect that's enough to keep development going for a bit longer without having to dip into capital or go begging at Paradox. I also think that what with the WL2 release they now have a better idea of what to expect in post-release sales.

 

I don't expect a very long delay though, simply because the funding for it isn't there. 

Edited by PrimeJunta
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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Yet to wade through the thread, but I might have a minority opinion here. 

 

I am deeply disappointed in this. The inability to stick to their schedule makes me feel more and more unsure about this game. I want this to be a good game, but endless cycles of development do a good game automatically make. 

 

Obsidisan had a chance to really stand out among the various Kickstarter developers and raise the bar. I know that isn't their job, but I am still disappointed that they can't make their own schedule. I just hope this isn't indicative of greater issues being under the wide rubric of polishing.

There's is nary a project that didn't at some point change their schedule, unless it was something utterly trivial. And those that don't are usually worse of for it.

That's just part of the nature of projects. You can only plan things so far, so it's better to have some leeway.

 

This is a premeditated and planned delay, not some last-minute "OMG the engine still doesn't compile" delay. I'd rather they take some extra time (as finances allow) if they notice that the alloted time for a task is probably going to be insufficient, than them starting to cut half-implemented things because they can't make it till deadline.

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*checks inbox*

 

Nope. Sure enough, just like the first delay I had to find out about this delay via a third party website instead of from Obsidian directly because it is obviously too much to ask as a loyal backer to be kept informed and updated on important project news.

 

I don't mind the delay. That's fine. But the communication is piss poor at best. Very doubtful I'd ever back another Obsidian game. They don't care about their backers so why should I care about them?

 

/rant

Not being told about the delay =/= Obsidian doesn't care about their customers.

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Calm down, please.

 

 

It's telling that you assume I’m excited because I’m expressing disappointment.

But there are plenty of people that have inexplicably responded to disappointing news with happiness and are far more excited than me. Why is that?

 

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/destinys-unintended-critique-consumerism

 

The NewYorker recently wrote this article suggesting that Destiny unwittingly critiques late stage capitalism but they should have written about PoE instead because people here, uniformly rejoicing at the delay, have ascended to the highest possible state of consumerism where things are acquired but not actually consumed, making the people who bought and play Destiny, shooting mindlessly into a cave look like amateurs. After all they are actually playing a game and people here don’t want an actual game called Pillars of Eternity, the game for them is this whole process of anticipation, observation and speculation. A real game would only ruin it because of the “bugs and lack of polish”. Watchdogs was one of the best games ever made until it actually came out and ruined the fun for everyone.

 

Every piece of software ever written has bugs  and polish is just a bull**** word. There are thousands of bugs in Baldur's Gate 2 (some of them massive game breakers) that were only fixed with a community fix pack. http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2fixpack/docs.php . Here's a few thousand that not only made it into the Gold version but also survived some official post release patches. Playing the game was a buggy experience, it still is over a decade later but somehow it was and still is amazing. PoE will also not be the first game in history without a crunch, that's ridiculous, there is always crunch.

But the truth is a lot of people don’t want the game to actually be released because then they’ll have to face up to the fact that while nostalgia and hyper capitalism are a heady mix they’re not a kid anymore playing Baldur’s Gate on their Voodoo 3s and the "bugs and lack of polish" they feared is instead the spectre of  an empty, meaningless existence stretching out before them called adult life.

 

Sushi, in it’s purest form isn’t eaten, that would be base and vulgar. Instead as a customer you are invited to observe a chef who spent 2 years sweeping floors before he was even allowed to handle a knife and a further 10 years in meticulous and exacting training after which he could begin calling himself a decent sushi chef. You watch the preparation of this food by a skilled artisan and when he has finished, the food is admired and discarded. It distills the whole thing down to its barest, purest essentials, giving you the satisfaction of consuming something without the hassle of actually having to eat and sit there and pretend that you even enjoy food, or eating, or dining in company or anything at all in life that isn't the process of buying and acquiring things, only the joy of consumption matters to you, the hyper-capitalist.

 

This is what Obsidian should do with PoE. Releasing an actual piece of software, at any point, this year, next year, five years from now, will only enrage and disappoint the people rejoicing without reservation at its delay. For Pillars of Eternity to be an authentic success they should continuously delay and then show footage of a complete masterpiece without letting anybody play it and immediately discard it, delete all versions and backups and announce pre-production has begun on PoE 2. The KickStarter money will again flood in.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68876-this-game-looks-great-in-every-way-obsidian-you-rock-de-house/

 

 

Bring on Poe 2 already..

 

Some here are either more honest or ahead of the curve and already asking for it.

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NegativeEdge: That was one helluva entertaining post! Nicely written too. Thx! :)

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I'm glad Obsidian decided to delay PoE. The mechanics need a good overhaul, it's not a matter of simply tweaking some stats; this of course requires some time

Edited by Msxyz

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Reading some of the replies here, in regard to the length of the delay, makes me somewhat confused.

What kind of changes are you actually hoping for? What would make a delay above about 4 months from now necessary?

Aside from possible overlap with The Witcher 3's release. But otherwise I don't feel the game is in need of any major overhauls.

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Reading some of the replies here, in regard to the length of the delay, makes me somewhat confused.

What kind of changes are you actually hoping for? What would make a delay above about 4 months from now necessary?

Aside from possible overlap with The Witcher 3's release. But otherwise I don't feel the game is in need of any major overhauls.

 

All of these areas, and more, need quite a bit of work 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68884-list-of-prios-to-fix-until-the-early-2015-release/?p=1519536

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I'm glad Obsidian decided to delay PoE. The mechanics need a good overhaul, it's not a matter of simply tweaking some stats; this of course requires some time

I doubt they plan to do this. 

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Calm down, please.

 

 

It's telling that you assume I’m excited because I’m expressing disappointment.

But there are plenty of people that have inexplicably responded to disappointing news with happiness and are far more excited than me. Why is that?

 

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/destinys-unintended-critique-consumerism

 

The NewYorker recently wrote this article suggesting that Destiny unwittingly critiques late stage capitalism but they should have written about PoE instead because people here, uniformly rejoicing at the delay, have ascended to the highest possible state of consumerism where things are acquired but not actually consumed, making the people who bought and play Destiny, shooting mindlessly into a cave look like amateurs. After all they are actually playing a game and people here don’t want an actual game called Pillars of Eternity, the game for them is this whole process of anticipation, observation and speculation. A real game would only ruin it because of the “bugs and lack of polish”. Watchdogs was one of the best games ever made until it actually came out and ruined the fun for everyone.

 

Every piece of software ever written has bugs  and polish is just a bull**** word. There are thousands of bugs in Baldur's Gate 2 (some of them massive game breakers) that were only fixed with a community fix pack. http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2fixpack/docs.php . Here's a few thousand that not only made it into the Gold version but also survived some official post release patches. Playing the game was a buggy experience, it still is over a decade later but somehow it was and still is amazing. PoE will also not be the first game in history without a crunch, that's ridiculous, there is always crunch.

But the truth is a lot of people don’t want the game to actually be released because then they’ll have to face up to the fact that while nostalgia and hyper capitalism are a heady mix they’re not a kid anymore playing Baldur’s Gate on their Voodoo 3s and the "bugs and lack of polish" they feared is instead the spectre of  an empty, meaningless existence stretching out before them called adult life.

 

Sushi, in it’s purest form isn’t eaten, that would be base and vulgar. Instead as a customer you are invited to observe a chef who spent 2 years sweeping floors before he was even allowed to handle a knife and a further 10 years in meticulous and exacting training after which he could begin calling himself a decent sushi chef. You watch the preparation of this food by a skilled artisan and when he has finished, the food is admired and discarded. It distills the whole thing down to its barest, purest essentials, giving you the satisfaction of consuming something without the hassle of actually having to eat and sit there and pretend that you even enjoy food, or eating, or dining in company or anything at all in life that isn't the process of buying and acquiring things, only the joy of consumption matters to you, the hyper-capitalist.

 

This is what Obsidian should do with PoE. Releasing an actual piece of software, at any point, this year, next year, five years from now, will only enrage and disappoint the people rejoicing without reservation at its delay. For Pillars of Eternity to be an authentic success they should continuously delay and then show footage of a complete masterpiece without letting anybody play it and immediately discard it, delete all versions and backups and announce pre-production has begun on PoE 2. The KickStarter money will again flood in.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68876-this-game-looks-great-in-every-way-obsidian-you-rock-de-house/

 

 

Bring on Poe 2 already..

 

Some here are either more honest or ahead of the curve and already asking for it.

 

 

WOW, dude, just wow

what you say isn't all that wrong, but don't you have a "little bit" pessimistic view on the whole matter?

I'm pretty sure PoE will turn out to be quite the facinating game, even worth actually playing it, hough a few folks may really be quite disapointed because it's not BG-first-time-magic all again

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I'm glad Obsidian decided to delay PoE. The mechanics need a good overhaul, it's not a matter of simply tweaking some stats; this of course requires some time

I doubt they plan to do this. 

 

I fear so too. But with the success of Divinity and also Wasteland 2 they really should think hart about this. at least use a D&D rule system which already works. 

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I think he was counting posts for Bryy, in some teasing fashion, but I'm not sure. :p


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Glad they did decide to give it a couple more months before they going to release it.  Now my best bet would be that they prolly release it by eigther end of March or early to mid April. Releasing it Januar would be not enough time to really give it a quality polish (or at least that is what I would think). And releasing it Feburary well thats were The Witcher 3 will be getting all the attention (considering that the Witcher 3 is at the very top of a lot of peoples most anticipated game list I think that is a fair assumption).

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"Jet, do you know that there are three things I particularly hate......Kids, animals, and women with attitude. SO CAN YOU TELL ME WHY WE HAVE ALL THREE NEATLY GATHERED ON OUR SHIP!"

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Glad they did decide to give it a couple more months before they going to release it.  Now my best bet would be that they prolly release it by eigther end of March or early to mid April. Releasing it Januar would be not enough time to really give it a quality polish (or at least that is what I would think). And releasing it Feburary well thats were The Witcher 3 will be getting all the attention (considering that the Witcher 3 is at the very top of a lot of peoples most anticipated game list I think that is a fair assumption).

Best release dare would be near Summer to be honest. If they released it this year they had to "fight" against Dragon Age which they can not win. Feb is Witcher 3 of course no chance. June or July seems like a great date and gives them some  time too. 

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Best release dare would be near Summer to be honest. If they released it this year they had to "fight" against Dragon Age which they can not win. Feb is Witcher 3 of course no chance. June or July seems like a great date and gives them some  time too. 

To be fair so I did put out my most optimistic guess. If I would give my realistic choice I prolly say end April early May. Reason beeing that I think olny very few people really can play one big RPG after another without getting burned out with them. I am a big rpg and strategy fan but even I can't just play both of them without getting in some mindless fun shooter action or a couple of good creative indie games in between them.

Edited by Spike Spiegel 28
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"Jet, do you know that there are three things I particularly hate......Kids, animals, and women with attitude. SO CAN YOU TELL ME WHY WE HAVE ALL THREE NEATLY GATHERED ON OUR SHIP!"

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I think he was counting posts for Bryy, in some teasing fashion, but I'm not sure. :p

 

Quite right.


It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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I am glad of the fact the game is being delayed. I am very unhappy of the fact that my suspicions about the state of the game, based on what I saw in the beta, were correct. I feel sorry I spent the extra money on the beta access in the first place. The lesson I take is to be more confident about the accuracy of my first impressions. I suspect they have made the decision about the new delay first and foremost as a result of the disappointed reactions that came from the beta in the state in which it was released. I assume this pushed them to the conclusion that simply polishing the beta won't suffice, and I dread to think all they plan to do up to release is plug the holes in the beta and nothing more. Personally, I find the official announcement's wording unsettling and lacking confidence. My read is as follows:

 

 

 

Through your help and feedback, the Pillars of Eternity team has spent the past two years creating a fun, fulfilling experience. An open development has enabled us to interact with our fans and backers in a way we weren't able to in the past, and this has really helped shape Eternity into a game that we all hoped it would become.

(Reiterate the company line we've already said in every possible interview and presentation, we fear they might start losing confidence after we announce a second delay, after we claimed we were releasing it this year after our first delay)

 

 

 

]Plus, with the Backer Beta, we have been able to get excellent feedback from our backers that we are using to shape Eternity into an even better game. We really can't thank you enough.

(We gave them the beta to test their reaction - hmm, apparently no way to release the game in this state without them noticing. Oh man I hope we didn't set too high expectations for this...)

 

 

 

To incorporate as much feedback as possible, polish every nook and cranny of the game, and make sure we don't ship a buggy game, Obsidian has decided to push the game's release into early next year.

(We are behind schedule with a part of the development cycle that's obligatory - testing and bugfixing, but let's look for the regular cliche where we promise them that our catching up to "Gold" state will give them more than they would have gotten from a release made at "Gold" state.)

 

We are going to use the extra time to make Eternity shine for our backers, and a game that we were proud to call our own and would live up to your expectations.

(We need to communicate that the game we will release will be better than we had originally planned, thanks to the delay, and that's why we're taking the extra time - certainly not because we're behind schedule, no way)

 

I may be too pessimistic here. I sure hope I turn out to have been such.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

Best post of the topic.

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@Darji and others: ain't gonna happen. You want P:E to be something it doesn't try to be.

 

The mechanics are fundamentally fine and already a LOT better than (A)D&D in almost every way that counts. The game has improved tremendously from BB.278, and I already find the combat more enjoyable and varied than comparable-level combat in BG1. Give 'em a couple of months to improve the combat feedback and sort out the glaring balance issues, and it'll be not just passable but damn good.

 

(Edit: same goes for everything else. Some classes for example need work, but to get them up to scratch they just need more and more varied talents and spells plus some numbers adjusted, not fundamental redesigns. Etc.)

Edited by PrimeJunta
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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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So, Brandon, Steam Early Access release on the original release date? You know you want to.

I really don't want to. =)

 

I don't think we are going down that route. I don't make the final decision on it, but I don't think it is in the cards for us.

 

OK, I hope Paradox's new percentage isn't too harsh (assumptions.jpg ;) ).

 

You guys did seem to be very very eager to release the game this year and very sure that you would, and I have to wonder why.

 

 

We were really pushing for a release this year because we felt it was possible. I still think we could have done it if we needed to, but it would have been a death march for the team, it would have lacked polish, and it likely would have been a buggy experience. We want Eternity to be good. We all have a lot of pride in what we do. Plus, we want to give the backers a game that they can be proud to have backed.

 

Can we hear from developers, with what Obsidian is not satisfied and what will be changed within the game?

But no answer like this: "we want to be a better game". If you can give us concrete examples.

Edited by adam77
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