New build feedback

[Skie Nightfall]

I can actually win combat now

Also, I don't understand what's so bad about the Endurance/Health system. Seems pretty neat to me to have short and long term health system.

Just not sure a rest should heal you so easily, but it's not too bad.

[AndreaColombo]

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

 

That animal companion's selection circle must be made larger to fully encompass the 3D model. It looks weirdly off like that.

[Pidesco]

Why is culture chosen after the attributes during character creation? Seeing as culture affects attributes, I think it'd be better the other way around.

[mutonizer]

Why is culture chosen before the attributes during character creation? Seeing as culture affects attributes, I think it'd be better the other way around.

 

You mean after

And yea, makes no sense to me either. Every character I go to the culture tab, choose, then come back to the attribute tab.

[Rumsteak]

Everyone agrees with having culture before attributes.

 

And I'm sure developers know all too well that doing so would break this nice symmetry with attributes at the center:

 

 

Now they may need to do a deep reshaping of the whole thing.

Weird that they didn't seem to think about this problem before.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Rumsteak

[morhilane]

I really don't think it is. I don't want an animated engagement UI. Animated Targeting reticle is more important.

 

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

Turn Colorblind mode off again.

 

 

hmm, I never set that option to true but it was. Thanks, that explain why some stuff was blue.

[Hormalakh]

Alright folks. Finally finished my inventory UI update. Please let me know what you think.

 

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/09/looking-at-inventory-ui-bb301.html

 

 

 

Looking at the Inventory UI bb301

 

This is for beta players who know how the inventory works. I came up with a new version that I worked on last night, ultimately shuffling things around to where they are most logical and flow best. I want some feedback.

The inventory is divided into three chunks:
the left-most gives you combat-oriented information and your portrait,
the middle portion is mainly dedicated to individual inventory
the right-most portion is the party inventory, stash, and party-specific information like crafting,enchanting, camping supplies, and party gold.

So I took that idea and ran with it.
 

The new inventory screen

On the left:
1- I added a few more combat-oriented information so that equipping any item should immediately give you feedback on changes.
2- I changed the names to be either three or two letter abbreviations except for the defenses.
3- I changed Stamina to Endurance, added in damage reduction, changed the icon for accuracy to a targeting reticule (which should show a melee accuracy or a ranged accuracy depending on what weapon set you're holding. Made the RH (Right hand) show damage ranges and attack speed as well as the LH (left hand) with a corresponding accuracy for each hand. These LH/RH values update immediately based on the weapon set that you choose.
4- Introduced interrupt and concentration if they are implemented in game.
5- Left the defenses as is.

In the middle:
I continued with the idea that this was supposed to represent an individual's inventory. The paperdoll, weapon sets, quick items all correspond as such. So I went further and:
1- put each character's portrait in this section (as opposed to the right-section, the party inventory).
2- Placed a singular "top of stash/belt" of 16 slots for each character. Thus, when you select each character, their corresponding 16-slot inventory will show up.
3- Added two new buttons: one is the "send to stash" (which looks like a finger point to the right) and the other is a "use item" or "drop item" (whichever one they want to use it for). I used the images of the hands of god from the sisteen chapel to represent these because I wanted it to continue with the theme of renaissance fantasy. The send to stash can send all items to the stash by for a particular character (perhaps by double-clicking?), or selecting an item and clicking that button would send individual items to stash.
4- This middle portion also has another version where the party portraits are to the left of the paperdoll, etc and closer to the left-most portion of the inventory.

The right-most section:
...is really a "party inventory" section. So I made it actually act that way:
1- There is now one singular grid for which you click on one of the top three buttons (STASH, CRAFTING INGREDIENTS, QUEST) to show those items.
2- The left-sided sorting buttons now would highlight those specific items in the whichever inventory type you are in.
3- There is now a "sorting" series of buttons at the top, similar to those on the right. These actually sort your items based on three algorithms: alphabetically (A), cost (the cent image), and number of items in stash (123).
4- I created an "ingredients button" that looks like an anvil. This would show all the ingredients you have collected in the main grid.
5- I placed a scrollbar next to the grid for increased stash space.
6- Camping supplies are now shown on the top right along with party gold since these are all related to the TOTAL that the PARTY has.
7- I moved over the crafting and enchant buttons here, because crafting and enchanting are not really based on individual skill. This way a quick look at the stash and you can start craft with stash items or you an drag and drop an item to be enchanted.

There are a few things that Obsidian still needs to implement, even with their current inventory system.

• Currently, players are unable to change the color of their characters. The colors are shown (in the paperdoll section), but clicking on those does nothing.
• There is no way to actually "use" an item while in the inventory screen. It is quite a hassle to use items, as you have to first place it in your quick items before you can use it. My inventory system sort of fixes this.
•  It is impossible to "split" stacked items like potions. The only way I have currently found to do so is to go to a shopkeeper and to start selling items. It will then ask you how many items you want to sell and you can then split them that way.
• The ingredients list is a sort of nebulous stash that is near impossible to find. You first have to go to "Crafting" and then you can see a list of items you can make and you can sort of figure out what ingredient items you have based on those lists. My inventory systems hopefully fixes this.
• The stash inventory is also a pain in the butt to get to: you first have to get into the inventory system and then click on another button that you bring up another window which is the stash. Furthermore, the current way of getting items into and out of the stash is not intuitive.
• I have a suggestion with regards to how the inventory and character sheets show the values for health, endurance, DT, accuracy, etc. It would be really nice if mousing over the icosn would show how each value was calculated (including one-handed or two-handed bonuses, bonuses from eqpt, and other bonuses). I'm hoping that the extra information I placed in my inventory UI also helps towards getting the most information to the player.
• It has been mentioned multiple times before but the abbreviations system for the combat information is a little weird. I can't explain it. Anyway, I took a shot at fixing it, but something still doesn't feel right.

That's all I can think of for now. Feel free to comment here or on the Obsidian forums about what you think. I have the photoshop documents if people are interested in playing around with the inventory.

 

 

[Skie Nightfall]

So, I've seen there are huge discussions about combat exp. Without going into all of those, can someone tell me if Obsidian ever gave the reasoning of no combat exp?

[Hormalakh]

So, I've seen there are huge discussions about combat exp. Without going into all of those, can someone tell me if Obsidian ever gave the reasoning of no combat exp?

 

they did give a reason. the short answer is that combat xp leads to players making choices they otherwise wouldn't because getting XP has more value in the long run than playing the game with your character concept in mind.

[mutonizer]

Which translated to:

"you're all nothing but children and cannot decide for yourselves nor assume responsibilities for yours actions, so we'll take everything away from you and you'll do exactly what we say"

 

A concept in game design I find quite insulting, but ah well, sometimes you got to just suck it up right?

[Captain Shrek]

Pretty much. Players suck. Gameplay is good. Designer is god. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Pretty much. Players suck. Gameplay is good. Designer is god. 

What have you done? Did you really have to spoil the entire plot of PoE? Happy now?

[remiel005]

I liked some of the changes I have seen so far.  Nice not to have two dump stats and feel like I'm cheating some characters by taking negatives.  While the game plays better over all, I've had some stability issues I wasn't encountering in the previous build.  I'm not real impressed with the additional talent options or their frequency - this is being discussed in other threads, but I'd like to see class talents and general talents separated.  General talents being gradual changes you can make to shift your character's focus and class talents less frequent but having a large impact on class abilities and function (doesn't help that there are no numerical values shown with the new talents).

 

Went from hating rogues to building one that was insanely powerful.  Orlan rogue with the crit bonus, maxed out perception and dexterity and did dual stilettos with no armor.  Throw in a paladin adventurer with the hit-to-crit bonus to the aura and I was hitting with critical sneak attacks almost every time by just taking a few seconds to position - 20-50 damage less than a second apart - no one could match that and I cleared most of the encounters without using any other class' abilities.  On the flip side I feel like the  barbarian changes either nerfed the class pretty badly or they aren't shaping up as well as the others.

 

Would still like to see significant changes in at least the fighter/wizard classes so they are reflective of more diverse builds.  I discussed this further on the General Class Thread.

[morhilane]

Some feedback after playing with a few different characters.

 

1. Intellect is sort of a useless stat now unless you want more deflection. With the downsizing of most AoE spell, the size bonus provided by high Intellect is marginal in a lot of cases. Even at Int 20, the size difference is usually not enough to add in another "foe/friend" in a combat situation where not everything is glued together. Some spells don't seems to be affect by it too (Druid's Twin Stones for example or the Priest's seal/wards), not sure if that is normal or not. I'm wondering if the smaller AoE (let say sub 2 meters) would make more sense with a larger bonus from Intellect than the larger ones.

 

2. Shouldn't Paladin's aura be the same size? Zealous Focus is 3.0m and Zealous Charge is 5.0m at Int 10 in the tooltip.

 

3. Ranger is still buggy. At level up, mine was getting bonus from other classes (like Armored Grace at level 3), but they didn't appear in his character sheet. I also had a combat issue where my ranger stopped responding to command. He stood there doing nothing despite having no "action icon" until I moved him, at that point he started to reloading his crossbow. Also, the pet sometimes goes to talk to people or open loot container, somewhat funny (I don't mind it).

 

4. New spell size. It makes them easier to cast over a melée when they have friendly fire (this is good I guess). The smaller size cause problem with buffs though, now you have to cast them more often to affect has many people has before, but you get screwed over by the per-rest/encounters counter. Mostly affect the Priest. I feel like I shouldn't be using the Priest's buff too often, but they are fragile so putting them in melee (starting kit of BB Priest) is dangerous. Basically, I'm not sure of the Priest-secondary role anymore after being buff-bot, but I doubt it's supposed to be "decorating the background".

 

Now the I like list:

- I like the new talents. Unlike a lot of people, I don't want the talent gain speed to be changed. I hate being spoiled at level up, it turn my "Yeah new X this level" feeling to "boff what do I take now".

- New sounds are good. It's amazing how sound can make something more alive.

- Combat feedback improvements.The engagement arrows do their job, although it doesn't show that much when the characters are turning their back to you or they are all really close to each others. Should only show up on mouse-over too, to avoid cluttering the combat zone.

[Monte Carlo]

* shrugs * I still don't think the system is intuitive. I build a high MIGHT high CON barbarian with a morningstar and he sucks donkey balls in combat. Why?

[Malekith]

* shrugs * I still don't think the system is intuitive. I build a high MIGHT high CON barbarian with a morningstar and he sucks donkey balls in combat. Why?

Are you sure he sucks?

Because if you compair him with BG1 fighters, he will suck by design. Remember when Sawyer said that the wizard power curve (sucks at low levels, reigns at hig levels) is a no go?

The other side of that coin is that the fighters power curve (beast at low levels compaired to other characters, sucks in high level) is a no go as well.

[Skie Nightfall]

 

So, I've seen there are huge discussions about combat exp. Without going into all of those, can someone tell me if Obsidian ever gave the reasoning of no combat exp?

 

they did give a reason. the short answer is that combat xp leads to players making choices they otherwise wouldn't because getting XP has more value in the long run than playing the game with your character concept in mind.

 

 

Oh I can understand that, but wouldn't balancing the xp gain where such choices are possible make more sense? or I guess this is what the long xp threads are talking about?

[Quantics]

Alright folks. Finally finished my inventory UI update. Please let me know what you think.

 

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/09/looking-at-inventory-ui-bb301.html

 

 

I really, really like it.

 

My only complaint is about the leftmost panel. I haven't had the opportunity to play the beta yet so I'm not really familiar with the game mechanics, but I find it WAY too cryptic. There's too many values out there with obscure acronyms. And I think I've read an interview from JS where he mentioned that they're also targeting a whole new audience (younger players) who have not necessarily played all the IE games.

 

That said, I'm all up for having a bit more stats than what we currently have. I think it could partly be solved with having the full name f the attributes be displayed on mouse over, but still I believe theres a bit too much information on such a small place. Why not make the portrait a bit smaller instead? It would allow you to make the stat section much clearer.

[Monte Carlo]

 

* shrugs * I still don't think the system is intuitive. I build a high MIGHT high CON barbarian with a morningstar and he sucks donkey balls in combat. Why?

Are you sure he sucks?

Because if you compair him with BG1 fighters, he will suck by design. Remember when Sawyer said that the wizard power curve (sucks at low levels, reigns at hig levels) is a no go?

The other side of that coin is that the fighters power curve (beast at low levels compaired to other characters, sucks in high level) is a no go as well.

 

 

Yes. He sucks. When he goes to bash stuff up it takes ages and he does hardly any damage. His armour doesn't seem to protect him. He dies quite quickly, pulling a disproportionate amount of aggro.

 

The BB Fighter seems pretty good by comparison.

 

I tried a 2H weapon paladin too, he also sucked.

 

Sorry, this look-how-modish-we-are design isn't fun for me. I so badly want to like this game. It's like going on a date with a woman you find very attractive, only to find out she's pretentious and icy.

 

Edit - oh, and he's 6th level. Where does this power curve kick in, exactly?

Edited September 27, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Quadrone]

* shrugs * I still don't think the system is intuitive. I build a high MIGHT high CON barbarian with a morningstar and he sucks donkey balls in combat. Why?

 

Hm, maybe it's the Barbarian then...

I have some problems with combat too since this patch, made a Barbarian with high Might and Con rest between 10-14 and now I tried to kill Medreth and his goons three times on normal and got stomped each time. Before this patch I killed them easily even with the multiple boar bug.

Or is it that the encounter has been made more challenging? Anyone?

[Monte Carlo]

I think that encounter has been buffed.

[IndiraLightfoot]

MC & Quadrone: I played a Bleakwalker paladin as a fire-godlike, and I pumped dexterity, followed by lots of strength, constitution and perception - then I dropped the rest to bad levels. I picked damage enhancing skills on top of that, and got a beast in combat. My party, without any adv hall hireling, killed the Medreth boar gang easily on normal, first try. I made it a priority to hit as often as possible and hit hard. I even had two guys in my party doing nothing: the priest and the wizard.

[TheNationer]

 

I really don't think it is. I don't want an animated engagement UI. Animated Targeting reticle is more important.

 

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

Turn Colorblind mode off again.

 

 

hmm, I never set that option to true but it was. Thanks, that explain why some stuff was blue.

 

 

So was mine, did you not find it looked better?   Because I did xD

[Monte Carlo]

MC & Quadrone: I played a Bleakwalker paladin as a fire-godlike, and I pumped dexterity, followed by lots of strength, constitution and perception - then I dropped the rest to bad levels. I picked damage enhancing skills on top of that, and got a beast in combat. My party, without any adv hall hireling, killed the Medreth boar gang easily on normal, first try. I made it a priority to hit as often as possible and hit hard. I even had two guys in my party doing nothing: the priest and the wizard.

 

So this system.... (gasp) favours min / maxing???

 

I disappoint.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh! I picked a two-handed sword at that, and used that ability to have it burn! And well, if that gang got lucky while I was zig-zagging in between them like The Flash and The Human Torch rolled into one, and actually hit me, I had some weird burn damage retribution thing going.

 

And yes, I admit. I often tend to tinker with the system to see what output I can improve - that's half the fun of it.