Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[Meshugger]

Of course there are naked pictures. The original argument against the gamergate-fellows was that they were trying to "****-shame" her because of those said pictures.

[Meshugger]

Stumbled upon these guys at reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

 

Anyone knew about this? Thought reddit was a no-go for GamerGate.

 

Whuh? According to that link, Github closed the gamergate-repository proudly.

 

Well, better not use that site for anything anymore.

[Lexx]

Oh and apparently they really learned their lesson from this Intel thing, so that's nice too: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEtPs8CIAAIFbu.jpg

Is that photoshopped again or does that article really exist? Did a fast google sweep, couldn't find anything.

[Longknife]

 

Stumbled upon these guys at reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

 

Anyone knew about this? Thought reddit was a no-go for GamerGate.

 

Whuh? According to that link, Github closed the gamergate-repository proudly.

 

Well, better not use that site for anything anymore.

 

 

 

 

Oh and apparently they really learned their lesson from this Intel thing, so that's nice too: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzEtPs8CIAAIFbu.jpg

Is that photoshopped again or does that article really exist? Did a fast google sweep, couldn't find anything.

 

 

 

Well then disregard all that, I suck ****. The first two things we look at from that reddit both appear false. GG.

[HoonDing]

GamersGate must be happy with the extra publicity.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Only bought AMD the last time because it was cheaper. If I had the money, I'd pick Intel any time, though. :>

I always buy Intel because my first experience with AMD was awful.

[Fighter]

Never had AMD processor but their GPUs have been good to me. Although the next one will probably be Nvidia.

[Malcador]

I'm not saying I won't buy Intel on my next upgrade. But for the first time ever I will consider alternatives seriously. 

 

Nudges. Nudges are powerful.

Heh, really ? Why, exactly ?

 

Yes Gamasutra is a website where the "reviled" feminist Leigh Alexander posts on, so it has become one of the websites that many people on GG see as the enemy

 

But the realty is its an excellent and informative website that discusses many important and interesting articles about the gaming industry. You should go there yourself and see, it offers a very mature view on  all things related to gaming

 

They do support feminists and are opposed to the abuse Zoe Quinn received but this is small part of what overall the website offers

Eh, sometimes. Technical stuff is ok. The other design stuff, well, that can go take a hike - I still remember reaction to Jensen's post about it being 'transphhobic' and 'cis centered'. Seems the last line is all that matters to you, need echoes.

[Malcador]

So there are naked Zoe Quinn pics. Sorry I lost focus after Zoe Quinn's photographer for an erotica site[/size]

 

hmm..

 

Go look at Killcreek's photos if you need naked 'developers' (both of them barely qualify as that, I think).

[Gorgon]

I did a google image search, they're gross.  

[Malcador]

I was too late to warn you.

 

Alexander has published real concerns in gaming - http://leighalexander.net/list-of-ethical-concerns-in-video-games-partial/

[Monte Carlo]

Look, Leigh Alexander has made an error of judgement, unless of course she simply doesn't want to work in her chosen field any more.

 

It's like the editor of a driving / automobile site saying 'drivers suck, drivers are dead, cars are a waste of time," then getting baffled when BMW pull some ads. It really is that simple.

 

I'm all for journalists wearing their hearts on their sleeves. I like Leigh's passion, if I'm honest, and her "I'm not gonna take it any more!" brio. But every now and then, as a journo, I'd imagine you need to think big picture. She's an editor - she could have got that point across and offered a notional counter-view and got clean away with it.

 

Oh well, she's rolled the dice, quite literally. The thing is her staff and colleagues will feel the burn too.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I was too late to warn you.

 

Alexander has published real concerns in gaming - http://leighalexander.net/list-of-ethical-concerns-in-video-games-partial/

Heh.

 

"YouTubers have and continue to accept money to put games before their fervent consumer audiences and are not meaningfully obligated to disclose those relationships. They can then occupy leading curation spaces on a major storefront like Steam, Currently Steam curation’s discoverability algorithms mean the most powerful forces — many of whom, again, earn money from some game developers and not from others — only become more powerful."

 

Substitute "Video Game Journalists" for "YouTubers" and see some familiarity.

[Volourn]

"I like Leigh's passion,"

 

She's evil. Besides she isn't even a feminist because she hates women.

[Ineth]

I may still choose Intel. But making me never consider any other chip cost Intel a lot of money. Losing that is dangerous.

What is it about Intel's actions that irked you? They didn't seem unusual to me - just the kind of by-the-book reactions in the name of maximizing profit and doing damage control, that one would expect from a big corporation:

 

1. A website where Intel places ads targeting a specific group of consumers¹, publishes an article which rudely attacks & marginalizes that group, leading some of them to complain...

    

   ==>  Intel doesn't want to disgruntle that group of consumers [damage control!], and knows that in any case the ads will be more effective in places where the ads' target audience feels welcome & positive [profit!], so it pulls the ads.

    

2. Some journalists & activists start to publicly accuse Intel of "supporting misogyny" because of its action.

    

   ==>  Intel does not want to have bad press [damage control!], so it publishes a bland statement reiterating its commitment to corporate responsibility and apologizing for possible offense caused (without actually admitting to any wrongdoing).

Did you expect something else?

 

----

¹⁾ "serious" gamers willing to spend serious money on Intel's Extreme Edition hardware

[Fighter]

Here is a good article that gets it right about Leight & Intel.

 

Yes Leight was trying to say a thing:

 

I understand what Leigh Alexander was trying to say in her now-infamous “Gamers Are Over” article. She was trying to say that video games have evolved, that they’re no longer in the jurisdiction of so-called nerds, and that ‘gamer-culture’ as we know it has expanded.

 

That’s why she writes things like this: “Developers and writers alike want games about more things, and games by more people. We want — and we are getting, and will keep getting — tragicomedy, vignette, musicals, dream worlds, family tales, ethnographies, abstract art. We will get this, because we’re creating culture now. We are refusing to let anyone feel prohibited from participating.

 

 

However she could not help herself being a snide creature dripping with acid:

 

 

The problem with the piece Alexander ran in Gamasutra isn’t with what she was trying to say. It’s with what she actually said—about a stereotype of a group of people that she’s wittingly or unwittingly helping to perpetuate.

 

Here’s Alexander:

 

“‘Game culture’ as we know it is kind of embarrassing,” she writes, “it’s not even culture. It’s buying things, spackling over memes and in-jokes repeatedly, and it’s getting mad on the internet.

“It’s young men queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks and jutting promo poster rolls. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that marketers want them to see. To find out whether they should buy things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there.

 

“‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.”

 

This sneering, vicious denunciation of an entire group of people is what truly propelled #GamerGate into existence. What could have been a reasonable opinion piece about the evolution of gaming instead became a rhetorical Molotov ****tail."

 

 

 

And to she makes no apologies or clarifications even though supposedly people are misreading her or something.

 

 

[Ganrich]

I was about to post that Forbes article myself lol. I love Erik Kain. I don't agree with him 100% of the time, but I feel that if the other gaming journalists aspired to be as objective as he does then they wouldn't get so much crap. He was one of the sole voices to support fans during the ME3 escapade, and I have followed him since.

 

I agree with most of this article, and his conclusion. Alexander's inflammatory comments in the second part Fighter quoted are "the" reason this really blew up, and the flames were fanned by every insulting remark that she made on Twitter and the disallowing of comments on the articles themselves. Then the reddit and 4chan censorship occurred to exacerbate an already critical state. The things Milo uncovered with the GamesJournoPros list showed that they were coordinating instead of competing. Someone needs to explain to the journalists that insulted their readers for differing opinions that just because someone disagrees with them doesn't mean the person disagreeing is a horrible person. These journalists have a very narrow view and cannot understand that with 7 billion people on the planet that not everyone will agree, but not agreeing doesn't make those people ****lords.

 

I think a few of these journalists have burned their credit with the community. They may survive this with their jobs, but they will likely lose a lot of pull with their community.

 

Another grievous issue IMHO is that none of the major outlets have covered the new trailer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG. This to me is horrible as it proves they cannot be objective. The only place to mention this video is Cinemablend. One of my biggest issues for being pro-GG is the clique potentially ignoring indie devs that don't fall into line with the media's demands or ideals. This issue already supposedly occurs in other entertainment industries like film and books. I don't believe a conservative writer or actor should be ostracized because they don't agree with the media or the industry execs. Just because someone has different ideals doesn't mean that can't be a good artist whether that be a developer of games, and actor, an author, a painter, etc. If these journalists wanted to be seen as objective they would have covered this trailer. They can only do their job if the developers fall into line though. It is BS, and is a greater issue of corruption than a AAA publisher pumping money into a site for an 8/10 instead of the 7/10 they may have gotten.

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Kingdom-Come-Deliverance-Video-Update-Covers-Alpha-Release-Date-67626.html

Edited October 4, 2014 by Ganrich

[Walsingham]

Open query: to what extent is this incident just echoing a more general trend in recent years; that of pundits massively exaggerating a position just to get clicks?

 

This is the new journalism as seen in politics. You get paid by clicks, not by good analysis. Because we've left paid analysis behind.

[Orogun01]

Open query: to what extent is this incident just echoing a more general trend in recent years; that of pundits massively exaggerating a position just to get clicks?

 

This is the new journalism as seen in politics. You get paid by clicks, not by good analysis. Because we've left paid analysis behind.

As far as we know the pundits are not influencing their field for the benefits of their politics. It would be as if the pundits had pundits that didn't identify as pundits and used their positions to make sure other pundits get ahead while running opponents from the field. So you get a view in the majority that is not actually representative of the demographic, EG: majority votes democrat but all the news outlets are Republican.

[Ganrich]

Open query: to what extent is this incident just echoing a more general trend in recent years; that of pundits massively exaggerating a position just to get clicks?

 

This is the new journalism as seen in politics. You get paid by clicks, not by good analysis. Because we've left paid analysis behind.

I think it is definitely something that has allowed this to happen, but most definitely not the core thing. I think insulting the readers and following with censorship tactics with continued name calling is what did it predominantly. However, the years of click bait articles, and other things, were what created the disenchantment that allowed the bubble to pop.

 

Side Note: https://mobile.twitter.com/erikkain/status/518531324215570435 Erik Kain getting a few people together to stream for a debate tomorrow. TotalBiscuit, Greg Tito, and Janelle Bonanno will join Erik Kain to debate GG.

[Orogun01]

I'm excited.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I have tomorrow off, looks like I'll have something to do while getting drunk off my ass.

[Ineth]

none of the major outlets have covered the new trailer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG.

 

Citation needed

 

[Orogun01]

 

none of the major outlets have covered the new trailer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG.

 

Citation needed

 

 

Ehh, it came out and no one is talking about it. I suppose you ask for proof of non existence before you regard something as unreal, if so I have an unicorn to sell you.

[licketysplit]

Here is a good article that gets it right about Leight & Intel.

 

Yes Leight was trying to say a thing:

 

I understand what Leigh Alexander was trying to say in her now-infamous “Gamers Are Over” article. She was trying to say that video games have evolved, that they’re no longer in the jurisdiction of so-called nerds, and that ‘gamer-culture’ as we know it has expanded.

 

That’s why she writes things like this: “Developers and writers alike want games about more things, and games by more people. We want — and we are getting, and will keep getting — tragicomedy, vignette, musicals, dream worlds, family tales, ethnographies, abstract art. We will get this, because we’re creating culture now. We are refusing to let anyone feel prohibited from participating.

 

 

However she could not help herself being a snide creature dripping with acid:

 

 

The problem with the piece Alexander ran in Gamasutra isn’t with what she was trying to say. It’s with what she actually said—about a stereotype of a group of people that she’s wittingly or unwittingly helping to perpetuate.

 

Here’s Alexander:

 

“‘Game culture’ as we know it is kind of embarrassing,” she writes, “it’s not even culture. It’s buying things, spackling over memes and in-jokes repeatedly, and it’s getting mad on the internet.

“It’s young men queuing with plush mushroom hats and backpacks and jutting promo poster rolls. Queuing passionately for hours, at events around the world, to see the things that marketers want them to see. To find out whether they should buy things or not. They don’t know how to dress or behave. Television cameras pan across these listless queues, and often catch the expressions of people who don’t quite know why they themselves are standing there.

 

“‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.”

 

This sneering, vicious denunciation of an entire group of people is what truly propelled #GamerGate into existence. What could have been a reasonable opinion piece about the evolution of gaming instead became a rhetorical Molotov ****tail."

 

 

 

And to she makes no apologies or clarifications even though supposedly people are misreading her or something.

 

Leigh Alexander is a self aggrandizing nut job. Erik Kain is playing it safe.