What you did today.

[Nonek]

What are feelings?

[BruceVC]

 

 

Maybe the best way to say "I respect that" is not to continue on with calling someone "abnormal". Can you see how someone might find that disrespectful?

 

Your point is that the media reflects it? Yes, Dutch media reflected the view that somehow, the loss of people who lived in this country was somehow worse or more shocking than than the loss of any other human being. I find that to be demeaning and offensive to the other human beings that lost their lives in that crash. It's unethical.

 

Either way, I'll point you to Hurlshot's post. I don't know where you got the idea that showing "empathy" is normal, but it's not the world I live in. I can recall when I heard about most recent tragedies, no matter who was with me at the time, someone around me responded with a bad joke. I'm confused by what you think is empathy anyway. If I were to become familiar with the victim, or confronted with the victims family, I would likely place myself in their shoes and yes, I would feel empathy. Doing so for people you do not know anything about is not only abnormal, it is impossible. Most of the supposed shows of empathy from people or the media aren't really empathy. It's the show of "I am sorry for your loss and I extend my sympathies". The fact that Dutch media made it about how "we lost our people" is offensive to me, a misappropriation of a terrible thing that demeans the very real loss of people that they actually have emotional connections to that others have gone through.

 

I'm not sure why you would consider a lack of empathic response to subjects with no emotional connection to be a bad thing in the first place. To me it looks like you're trying to shame people for not having an emotional response as if emotional responses are a choice.

 

Sorry if you feel disrespected, I was just being honest. I respect your view that is what you think but I find it abnormal because that's not how the average person would look at a tragedy that effects the citizens of there own country

 

But you already seem to acknowledge this as  the Dutch media showed this concern towards its dead citizens and you didn't understand why, in fact you were offended by this.

 

I can't really explain to you why most people would automatically show more concern to there own citizens killed in a tragedy, its just the way human beings think. Its probably got to do with a level of patriotism and the fact we generally see citizens of our  own country as part of our greater community on a national level, citizens in a country are like a tribe. We share a common identify and when someone who belongs to that "tribe " is killed this impacts us on certain levels

 

Empathy in this case would just mean you do feel for the families and the loss. Its something that you don't feel good about. And yes to be totally unconcerned if citizens of your own country are killed in a particular event I think is not right. Sorry to say this

 

 

The frustrating thing about you lately is that I can't tell if you're intentionally insulting people or not but you do it so constantly that it simply cannot be another way. First off, I take offense to the implication that I don't care at all about citizens of my country being killed when all I said is that I don't value citizens of my country any higher or lower than citizens of any other country, because doing so is unethical. I also take offense to your statement that I don't understand why the Dutch media showed "concern". I understand that perfectly well and I vehemently contest your assessment that it is empathy or even anything related to empathy. I also still take offense to the implication that not showing empathy while not having an emotion connection is abnormal as you have yet to prove in any substantial form that these responses are empathic responses or that they are responses that the average person has.

 

Simply put, I don't think you know what empathy is.

 

Here's the facts: The idea that a country is some sort of enormous tribe is a projection. It cannot exist. If an actual tribe becomes significantly larger than that society's average Dunbar's number (usually somewhere between 150 and 200), it splits. It is impossible to have an emotional connection to more people than the human brain allows and therefore impossible to have a real empathy for them. The fact that the "average" media person (again, I contest your claim that the "average" person does the same because in my personal experience this has never and will never be true) tends to make empathic statements anyway proves not that they have empathy but that they either instinctively fake it because of expectations or project the loss upon themselves (probably under the guise of nationalism), which isn't empathy but self-pity.

 

Were I to read about these people right now and understand who they were, their names, their lives, and form an emotional connection, I would have an empathic reaction. I would have something to identify with, and therefore I would have an empathic response. If you have seen a lot of personal information about these victims? Guess what, you're having an empathic reaction because you have an emotional connection, not because you have some magic "caring about every stranger's life". Maybe the response you lament us not having is culturally respectful, or culturally appropriate, but it certainly isn't nor will it ever be empathy.

 

What happens with nationalism is that the brain can't recognize more people than, again, Dunbar's Number. So it takes more people and internalizes them as a single entity. These good people I know aren't individuals, they're my nationality. It's a projection of belonging with a positive group fit only for people who can't form close emotional connections to the actual people around them. Nationalism on a biological level is the same as discrimination. It's the difference between "this one guy of [race, gender or nationality] is an individual who commited a crime" and "this one guy of [race, gender or nationality] is a criminal, people of [race, gender or nationality] must be criminals". As my country is often referred to as a "melting pot", I can tell you for a fact that nationalism has been nothing else but a source of countless problems and discrimination here.

 

"This guy is dead, but it's worse because he's one of ours!" Does that seem like a good response to you? I think it demeans the entire human race and the fact you consider it "normal" is frankly the most scathing condemnation of modern society I can think of.

 

 

Okay I did misunderstand you, I thought you were surprised that the Dutch media showed concern for it citizens who were killed. When in fact you were saying they should have shown the same concern for all  the people killed. I apologize for misinterpreting what you meant

 

Anyway my point doesn't really change, the media of any country will always seemed more concerned with deaths of there own citizens. That doesn't mean they aren't worried about the deaths of other citizens

 

So for me you don't need to have real visibility around the deaths of citizens of your own country before you feel empathy. Just the fact that you hear that people of your country have been killed is enough to feel empathy. Of course the emotional connection gets more serious when you see who they were and  how there loss effects relatives

 

And I don't think being concerned with your own citizens first and then others second makes you a bad person and I don't agree this is a form of discrimination. So I have no problem with Nationalism as long as it doesn't lead to automatic discrimination against foreigners

[Lexx]

Will probably listen to the new Smashing Pumpkins song for the rest of this day.

[Nepenthe]

This is really deep and ****, but today I actually got a bunch of work done after suspecting mon through wed that I've burned out. Could've been the fact its payday, but...

 

Now crashed out at the computer, gathering the strength to do some serious soup to tide me over the weekend.

[Nepenthe]

You guys lead boring lives... so double post, re Halloween party costume:

[Rosbjerg]

 

You guys lead boring lives... so double post, re Halloween party costume:

 

 

That would be a cool costume - hmm - what to do as a bald guy though.

 

 

Also slightly freaked out. It's 20 min past midnight and I live next door to a nursery/kindergarden (yes do they evacuate the kids from the ajoirning room from time to time, I do try to behave though... really!) ... aaaanyway, there's a soft melody coming from in there. Childish like, on a xylophone - kling klang kling klang -pause- kling klang kling.

 

I'm sure it's haunted, how do I exorcise kid demons? 

[Lexx]

Use fire and burn down the house.

[Guard Dog]

Today I'm working in the garden, cutting wood for the fireplace, staining the two wood rocking chairs I'm trying to make, and then listening to college FB & Game 4 on my XM Radio while enjoying a glass or two (or three) of fine 9 year old single batch bourbon.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

You guys lead boring lives... so double post, re Halloween party costume:

 

That would be a cool costume - hmm - what to do as a bald guy though.

 

 

Also slightly freaked out. It's 20 min past midnight and I live next door to a nursery/kindergarden (yes do they evacuate the kids from the ajoirning room from time to time, I do try to behave though... really!) ... aaaanyway, there's a soft melody coming from in there. Childish like, on a xylophone - kling klang kling klang -pause- kling klang kling.

 

I'm sure it's haunted, how do I exorcise kid demons?

Drug fueled orgy with hot women.

[Monte Carlo]

Lay in bed for a long time. Got up and breakfasted lazily. Read newspapers. Played Diablo 3 with son on PS4. Wrote for a bit. Messed about and enjoyed hour of internet serendipity. Walked hund mit Frau Monte Carlo. Am off to see Fury at the cinema followed by dinner with Frau MC.

 

All in all, a very pleasant day. Tomorrow am planning beer-based (even lazier) Sunday.

[Walsingham]

Lay in bed for a long time. Got up and breakfasted lazily. Read newspapers. Played Diablo 3 with son on PS4. Wrote for a bit. Messed about and enjoyed hour of internet serendipity. Walked hund mit Frau Monte Carlo. Am off to see Fury at the cinema followed by dinner with Frau MC.

 

All in all, a very pleasant day. Tomorrow am planning beer-based (even lazier) Sunday.

 

be advised, am informed that the film handles prisoner taking in a horrendously schlock fashion.

[BruceVC]

I have been working the whole weekend so its been productive but not very entertaining. I did manage to go to an excellent restaurant last night called Eisbein and Co and  had a few drinks and ate some of the best Eisbein I have ever eaten.

[Malcador]

Ah, Halloween. Forgot it's a Friday this year, means more damn kids will be around to collect their candy in an almost joyless, business fashion. Hopefully there's a cold snap. Still PC parts shopping today, think I've nailed down my laptop purchase now just need to go through Tom's and other sites to pick PC parts.

[Calax]

Saw John Wick. It was good.

[ManifestedISO]

Thirty days, man. Clean and free. I thought I'd save about $125 a month, and I have, but the temptation to buy a new wardrobe you know in your heart will never smell like tobacco is too powerful. 

[ShadySands]

I'm planning a trip to Italy (all over) and was wondering if you fine people know of any must see places besides the most famous and touristy places. Thanks in advance

[Nepenthe]

I'm planning a trip to Italy (all over) and was wondering if you fine people know of any must see places besides the most famous and touristy places. Thanks in advance

 

I like lake Garda. That said, you could spend a lifetime in Rome and several weeks in Naples or Sicily. I know I have.

[Malcador]

I'm planning a trip to Italy (all over) and was wondering if you fine people know of any must see places besides the most famous and touristy places. Thanks in advance

Spend a lot of time in Naples.

[Gfted1]

Id love to go to Italy but I would go to the touristy spots. Im a sucker for ruins and Italy has some of the best. Wouldn't mind checking out Venice either but I hear it stinks like a garbage dump.

[Labadal]

Id love to go to Italy but I would go to the touristy spots. Im a sucker for ruins and Italy has some of the best. Wouldn't mind checking out Venice either but I hear it stinks like a garbage dump.

It does. A few friends have been there and while they all say that they liked it, they were happy to be rid of the smell.

[JadedWolf]

Had a job interview. Got told that they'd let me know if I was one of the 10 lucky ones out of the 200 that applied to go through to the second round.

 

Yay.

 

Regarding Halloween:

 

Edited October 27, 2014 by JadedWolf

[Labadal]

^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc_RSBMFT7g

[AGX-17]

Got back from Zion.

 

The Narrows:

 

 

 

 

Virgin River near the Narrows:

 

 

Zion Canyon from The Watchman (The buildings are, clockwise from the bottom: Employee housing, campground by the Visitors' center, Administration building and museum.)

:

 

 

And from the Canyon Overlook trail:

 

Edited October 27, 2014 by AGX-17

[JadedWolf]

^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc_RSBMFT7g

 

It was more along the lines of...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_bsMGsBjWc

Edited October 27, 2014 by JadedWolf

[Nepenthe]

http://news.yahoo.com/no-laughing-matter-clown-terror-spreads-france-005440754.html

 

Didn't this start when Woldan said he'd be going away for a while?