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Ah, I've realised that the dots in combat are health bars. Thanks frostphoenix for the reply.

 

As for impressions, the game looks beautiful and really captures that Infinity Engine feel. The combat, however, feels too fast to me, and gets a bit visually cluttered with too many effects, colours and UI elements.

 

Some ideas:

  • have an abilities/items toolbar at the bottom of the screen with big icons, and hide/move the menu
  • move action timers to the toolbar, with a green 'ready' checkbox - after all, when you want to use an ability, you look at the toolbar
  • make hits feel more impactful
  • tone down some effects: for instance, the wizard spell 'arcane veil' looks good but needs to be a bit smaller and less opaque so as not to obscure the combat
  • other effects could be improved - for instance, the priest spell 'divine terror' looks decidedly not-terrifying
  • remove health bars and rely on portraits and mouse-overs instead
  • slow combat down in general

 

In general terms, I'd like combat to feel less like a brief, hectic skirmish. The IE-style combat felt more drawn-out (in a good way), where characters would fight but not always be able to land a decisive hit every few seconds. So when the hits landed, they felt good, they felt decisive, and they altered the dynamic of the engagement. In other words, they felt meaningful. The combat felt like a sandbox environment: it would continue mostly without your input, but intelligent and timely use of abilities could alter the course of the battle, and you could experiment with different combinations without feeling rushed. That's the sort of feeling I hope Pillars of Eternity can capture.

Edited by Simon280586
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My first impression is that if they get a complete game out in 3 months I'll be really impressed. there's a lot of good in here and the game can shine but as Sawyer said himself, there's A LOT  of work to be done before things get finalized.

 

I would not be shocked if they give us the 'bad' news of it being postponed until next year....

But is it "bad" news if we get the final game we all expected?  I say take this feedback and incorporate as much as you can (I'd be surprised if you've heard anything new here).  If you delay a few months and make this significantly better, then so be it. 

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Also another thing.

 

There is an actual difference in the difficult settings?

 

Because i was butchered in easy as i was maimed in hard .

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The Good:

- ambient and feel

- writing and dialogue

- music

 

The Meh:

- character models need work... they're too... ordinary, sometimes even hard to tell apart from the surroundings

- group and combat controls... half the time I end up casting a spell on my own guy, it's very clunky and just needs work

- all damage coming from Might, no matter the class? Needs re-working IMO.

 

The Bad:

- stamina/health.... sometimes overcomplicating things is bad... Why not just regular Health, every game in history used it.

- inventory management... after 2 hours I still haven't figured out how to destroy items etc. (obviously, finished icons will helps a great deal here once the game is done)

 

Overall... I'm past the giddy excitement at this point.

I fully support OE in this and they're doing a great job... But IMO, this still needs a LOT of work.

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In general terms, I'd like combat to feel less like a brief, hectic skirmish. The IE-style combat felt more drawn-out (in a good way), where characters would fight but not always be able to land a decisive hit every few seconds. So when the hits landed, they felt good, they felt decisive, and they altered the dynamic of the engagement. In other words, they felt meaningful. The combat felt like a sandbox environment: it would continue mostly without your input, but intelligent and timely use of abilities could alter the course of the battle, and you could experiment with different combinations without feeling rushed. That's the sort of feeling I hope Pillars of Eternity can capture.

Yes. This is a good executive summary of how things *should* be.

 

There are a lot of people here convinced that the Bugs are the only thing that's making the combat feel wrong in this beta. But I suspect that even when they slow things down and fix the bugs, it still won't feel right, because the *mechanics* are a bit too action-oriented to begin with.

 

You talked about the 'drawn out nature' of combat the IE games and how, by contrast, everything in PoE seems...brief. Well? That's not a bug. It's all about the DPS. That's Josh's stated design. They've replaced missing with grazes, rounds with seconds (and fractions of seconds) Of course you can graze for 00.00 damage in this beta, which is technically a miss, but that doesn't change the fact that as far as what you're seeing on the screen, you're still hitting, and it's still making a sound effect.

 

I don't know about this demonstration of PoE's combat. It sounded really good when it was described to us in the updates. But I'm seriously concerned now.

Edited by Stun
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I can't for the life of me figure out how to detect traps, or is it simply not in the beta...?

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+writing is top notch

+music is impressive

+art is excellent

+scripted interactions. Major points!

-Combat is too frenetic.

-monk and ciphers classes. Micromanagement.


"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Also, there are no more melee weapons in this beta. Believe it or not. Every time I reload the game, BB_Fighter's melee weapon sets disappear and I have to go back to to the blacksmith and purchase some more. But I've finally drained his stock. All he has now is a crossbow that I can't afford. drats. Looks like BB_Fighter's gonna have to Floyd Mayweather his way through the rest of the Beta!

Edited by Stun
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In general terms, I'd like combat to feel less like a brief, hectic skirmish. The IE-style combat felt more drawn-out (in a good way), where characters would fight but not always be able to land a decisive hit every few seconds. So when the hits landed, they felt good, they felt decisive, and they altered the dynamic of the engagement. In other words, they felt meaningful. The combat felt like a sandbox environment: it would continue mostly without your input, but intelligent and timely use of abilities could alter the course of the battle, and you could experiment with different combinations without feeling rushed. That's the sort of feeling I hope Pillars of Eternity can capture.

 

Well said. I love the beta but the combat needs a rework.

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You talked about the 'drawn out nature' of combat the IE games and how, by contrast, everything in PoE seems...brief. Well? That's not a bug. It's all about the DPS. That's Josh's stated design. They've replaced missing with grazes, rounds with seconds (and fractions of seconds)

 

 

Interesting. I was thinking earlier about how the combat reminded me a bit too much of action-RPGs, a genre I'm not really a fan of. Lots of damage numbers floating around, hits that barely seem to have an impact or reaction, fast movement, flashy effects with bright colours, a focus on DPS, etc.

 

Still, I'm sure I'll enjoy it much more once it's gone through its final polish.

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I think the combat is awesome. Once you've had your first two fights where you're confused, it becomes so clear and BG like, that it is an absolute joy. Detect traps = take the BB thief and press the thiefing icon, then she will detect traps in the area of the white circle. I found the beta very easy to navigate, fun and beautiful overall.

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Tried to create character and found out that all models and faces are beyond ugly *ugh*. And since there is currently no way to make half decent looking character I can't really enjoy or even play the game *sigh* (hopefully this will be fixed by some kind of mod). Also the UI scales badly with higher resolutions. On the other hand the music and enviroment looked nice which is plus I guess.

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Tried to create character and found out that all models and faces are beyond ugly *ugh*. And since there is currently no way to make half decent looking character I can't really enjoy or even play the game *sigh* (hopefully this will be fixed by some kind of mod). Also the UI scales badly with higher resolutions. On the other hand the music and enviroment looked nice which is plus I guess.

 

I kind of like the zoomed in character creation, but I think this is the biggest argument for it not being zoomed in.  The models are pretty ugly that zoomed in, and it's really not necessary to see them that close up since you never will in the game.  Then you have people like above, who literally, will not play the game for this reason.  

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Ok here my feedback after 1 hour of playing.

 

This is not a Beta. This is an Alpha at max.

 

So many things are incomplete its not fun to play at all. Lets get into the details

 

- the sound is a complete disaster so far. Sound does not play at all, delayed or at different levels of volume 

- the music is nice

- footstep sound need to be a lot louder

- background graphics are nice

- but too static. trees and grass need to move in the wind

- the characters need to contrast more to the background. they are very hard to see

- characters when walking by the river mirror in the river. this effect is broken. looks terrible

- the ui is ugly

- the inventory: way too small. I dont need to see all my companions inventory at once

- please no popup windows in the inventory....I hate popups in all forms

- there are no tooltips for the items

- the map is perfect

- combat speed is too fast

- when trying to talk to a npc I have to click on his feet. Why cant I just click the figure?

- dialog UI is too heavy. should be thinner

- dialog text is a wall of text. please add some linebreaks and paragraphs to make it more readable

 

I know this game is not finished. But I expect a Beta to be much more polished than this. I rated it at the current status as it is right now. I will not bother with the game anylonger until the next update. Then I will restart from the beginning. 

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Also, there are no more melee weapons in this beta. Believe it or not. Every time I reload the game, BB_Fighter's melee weapon sets disappear and I have to go back to to the blacksmith and purchase some more. But I've finally drained his stock. All he has now is a crossbow that I can't afford. drats. Looks like BB_Fighter's gonna have to Floyd Mayweather his way through the rest of the Beta!

 

 

 

My first impression -> :geek:

 

  • (....my wizard didn't have any icon in his action bar)

 

 

 

These are both symptoms of the loading bug.  Quicksaving seems to make this worse, but it's a bug regardless.  Items appear to not always load; this a bug listed in the issues they know about.

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OTHER

  • I understand that we live in an age of ubiquitous political correctness, but come on - selecting female gender by default is too much.

... to be continued.

 

First of all, I am offended by this remark, you are coming across as sexist. Secondly, you are wrong about it being default. Its random every time you start a new character.

 

 

I hate to be that guy, but... #rekt.

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Ok here my feedback after 1 hour of playing.

 

This is not a Beta. This is an Alpha at max.

 

So many things are incomplete its not fun to play at all. Lets get into the details

 

- the inventory: way too small. I dont need to see all my companions inventory at once

- please no popup windows in the inventory....I hate popups in all forms

 

 

I agree with a lot of your individual points.  As to your statement that this is an alpha. . .the game certainly is rough, but what passes for a beta these days in mmo's and such, when the game is practically finished, really isn't a beta, but regardless, those are all semantics. 

 

There is a "stash" inventory as well, that makes the inventory quite larger.  Also, the way you can see all of your companions' inventories at once is AWESOME.  I really, really hope this is not changed.  More games should do it this way, it makes organizing it so much easier.  That being said, inventory does need work.  

 

Your second "popup" point is quite picky, although I do think the way to examine items could be made a lot easier.

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we got many criticisms of the game, but am thinking many o' the combat complaints is attributable to one factor: inexperience.

 

we hear frenetic. we hear auto-attack bug, we hear pathfinding.

 

*shrug*

 

Gromnir micromanages, so pathfinding has been a minor nuisance (had priest run complete wrong direction drawing a second group o spiders to us were fun), and the auto-attack doesn't seem much o' an issue 'cause even when we get that bug, we inch through maps and invariably am prepared for combats. that being said, we gotta observe that there is no tutorial for this game, and we is being dumped into mid-levels. ultimately we believe that starting at level 5 is a good idea, but it makes the learning curve considerably steeper than it otherwise would be. at first level we would have a handful o' abilities per character and we would no doubt have some hand-holding combats which would introduce us to combat mechanics. we would learn first level abilities and would get a dozen combats with those abilities before reaching the next level... but there is no intro combats with this beta. obsidian is taking a bunch o' folks who don't know how to swim in PoE water, and throwing 'em in the deep end... or at least the deepening end. 

 

we sill say that we would like the character sheet to be more dynamic. we change weapons and armour and gear and numbers on character sheet appear to remain static. how does Gromnir know if a stilleto is a good or bad weapon for a cipher if we cannot see some kinda character sheet change?

 

am also not getting much o' the applause for the writing. am s'posing some appreciation is based on expectations. obsidian does good writing, so we must be getting good writing? am not able to identify a particular memorable character or dialogue thus far... at least not a good one. sid were a mess. all the history were tedious exposition that wonder if we were 'posed to have read volume one and two before getting sid's talky. most dialogues has been pretty standard crpg fare with some silly humor (josh must be chewing on aluminum foil to see such included) and skill/ability checks that don't always seems to work as deigned... or maybe the do work as designed and we just don't understand the rules.

 

most unfortunate bug so far is disappearing quests. the only xp we get is from guest and task completion, so quest disappearance is a game killer. 

 

nevertheless, am suspecting that most complains 'bout combat is actual misguided. yeah, inability to identify friend from foe or character 1 for character is annoying and inexcusable. and some bugs make combats more difficult than necessary, but we suspect that the biggest problem with combat is simply that it is relative complex, not particular intuitive, and we were dropped in game midway without any chance to learn basics. that being said, we still believe starting at level 5 is a good idea, but we can see how it would be discouraging for some players.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps having to play our cipher sans armour is also annoying. every time we reload a game, his armour disappears... not that we can honestly tell you how much good armour is doing for our cipher anyway given lack o' a dynamic character record display

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Grom,

 

Just because their writing is up to their usual standards doesn't mean that they don't need such positive reinforcement or praise for what they do well.

 

I'm about halfway through the the beta and I haven't had a party wipe yet. But the combat still needs significant tune up. Yes, it's a crutch that we are not familiar with the ruleset/skills/spell mechanics etc but the primary problem is lack of useful visual and tactile feedback in terms of what's going on.

 

Otherwise, I agree with your assessments. Quest bug is annoying.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with what I'm playing and they are well on their way -pending significant major tune up.

Edited by Leferd
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"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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ps having to play our cipher sans armour is also annoying. every time we reload a game, his armour disappears... not that we can honestly tell you how much good armour is doing for our cipher anyway given lack o' a dynamic character record display

Yep. Our Fighter's a monk now, only without monk skills. Why? no more melee weapons available in the entire demo for him to equip then lose.

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Grom,

 

Just because their writing is up to their usual standards doesn't mean that they don't need such positive reinforcement or praise for what they do well.

 

I'm about halfway through the the beta and I haven't had a party wipe yet. But the combat still needs significant tune up. Yes, it's a crutch that we are not familiar with the ruleset/skills/spell mechanics etc but the primary problem is lack of useful visual and tactile feedback in terms of what's going on.

 

Otherwise, I agree with your assessments. Quest bug is annoying.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with what I'm playing and they are well on their way -pending significant major tune up.

am agreeing that the lack o' feedback to be explaining what is happening in combat makes combat that much more difficult to comprehend. am genuine surprised at the lack o' useful information via the character record page... should be far more dynamic. having to puzzle out combat through trial and error, particularly when facing so many bugs, is making combat even more difficult understand than it otherwise would be. nevertheless, we do believe that the extreme steep learning curve sans a tutorial stage is greatly exacerbating the problem. the more we play, the more we get a feel for combat... feels less chaotic as we begin to understand what is going on. is not that the combat itself is bad or frenetic, but we agree that density/depth and lack o' useful explanations is making it seem frenetic.

 

as for the writing, we simple hasn't genuine seen particularly compelling writing as yet, though we do frequent seen it listed as a positive from beta feedback. strikes us as a bit forced or based on past games rather than the current one. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Grom,

 

Just because their writing is up to their usual standards doesn't mean that they don't need such positive reinforcement or praise for what they do well.

 

I'm about halfway through the the beta and I haven't had a party wipe yet. But the combat still needs significant tune up. Yes, it's a crutch that we are not familiar with the ruleset/skills/spell mechanics etc but the primary problem is lack of useful visual and tactile feedback in terms of what's going on.

 

Otherwise, I agree with your assessments. Quest bug is annoying.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with what I'm playing and they are well on their way -pending significant major tune up.

am agreeing that the lack o' feedback to be explaining what is happening in combat makes combat that much more difficult to comprehend. am genuine surprised at the lack o' useful information via the character record page... should be far more dynamic. having to puzzle out combat through trial and error, particularly when facing so many bugs, is making combat even more difficult understand than it otherwise would be. nevertheless, we do believe that the extreme steep learning curve sans a tutorial stage is greatly exacerbating the problem. the more we play, the more we get a feel for combat... feels less chaotic as we begin to understand what is going on. is not that the combat itself is bad or frenetic, but we agree that density/depth and lack o' useful explanations is making it seem frenetic.

 

as for the writing, we simple hasn't genuine seen particularly compelling writing as yet, though we do frequent seen it listed as a positive from beta feedback. strikes us as a bit forced or based on past games rather than the current one. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

At the moment the more i play, the less i want to play it again.

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In another thread, Sorophyx recommended turning on slow mode. I will have to check it out and see of it makes combat feel more manageable.


"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Grom,

 

Just because their writing is up to their usual standards doesn't mean that they don't need such positive reinforcement or praise for what they do well.

 

I'm about halfway through the the beta and I haven't had a party wipe yet. But the combat still needs significant tune up. Yes, it's a crutch that we are not familiar with the ruleset/skills/spell mechanics etc but the primary problem is lack of useful visual and tactile feedback in terms of what's going on.

 

Otherwise, I agree with your assessments. Quest bug is annoying.

 

Overall, I'm pleased with what I'm playing and they are well on their way -pending significant major tune up.

am agreeing that the lack o' feedback to be explaining what is happening in combat makes combat that much more difficult to comprehend. am genuine surprised at the lack o' useful information via the character record page... should be far more dynamic. having to puzzle out combat through trial and error, particularly when facing so many bugs, is making combat even more difficult understand than it otherwise would be. nevertheless, we do believe that the extreme steep learning curve sans a tutorial stage is greatly exacerbating the problem. the more we play, the more we get a feel for combat... feels less chaotic as we begin to understand what is going on. is not that the combat itself is bad or frenetic, but we agree that density/depth and lack o' useful explanations is making it seem frenetic.

 

as for the writing, we simple hasn't genuine seen particularly compelling writing as yet, though we do frequent seen it listed as a positive from beta feedback. strikes us as a bit forced or based on past games rather than the current one. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

At the moment the more i play, the less i want to play it again.

 

that is complete fair. having to puzzle through combat without useful feedback is bad design. having all experience awarded through quests, but quest logs evaporating makes playing beyond a certain vague point largely... pointless. disappearing gear, inability to identify friends from foes or friends form friends, the annoying knockdown sound effect, etc.

 

takes a serious diehard to voluntarily keep playing given the current state o' the game. am betting we restart with different characters 'till we exhaust all non-companion represented, but that is 'cause we is an idiot. sane people would give up and wait til obsidian fixed some o' the more glaring issues.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Adding "Auto-Pause" (when enemy seen) helps a lot too.

Actually, lots of "Auto-Pause" features should be tested.

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