It's time to level up!

[Caerdon]

You see the cross appear on your portrait, you hear that sweet sound... it's time to level up!

 

However, in some games it's not that simple - you might only be able to level up while resting, for example. While that idea is a remnant from tabletop games where it makes a lot of sense, there are some arguments to why it could be a good thing in CRPGs as well. So what do you think, should there be some limits to how, when and where you're able to level up you characters?

 

Personally I'm voting for while resting, but honestly I'm a bit torn between most of the latter options.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Caerdon

[Tartantyco]

I'm torn between While Resting and In a Safe Area.

 

Now, it's not that big a deal, in my opinion, but it just feels more right if character growth requires some rest and contemplation. You don't work out real hard just before you go sportsing, so it just feels a little weird to be able to level up out in the field.

[Ztirual]

Level-up in the field while resting, otherwise in 'safe' areas. Yes, this means that if you don't manage your resources well, and thus, run out of supplies while out in the field, you won't be able to level-up until supplies are found or you're in a 'safe' area (towns, inns, stronghold, etc.).

[Marceror]

Pretty much, out of combat. That's what I'm used to in cRPGs. In P&P we usually waited until we rested and were at full hitpoints, but honestly I find that a bit onerous. If I'm more experienced in the middle of a dungeon, than I see no reason I can't level up at any point. I exclude combat, because combat should be focused on... combat.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Marceror

[Zansatsu]

Any time outside of combat, but if they go a different route I don't really care.

[Volourn]

Ideally, I'd prefer resting in safe areas. Infact, 'low levels' should have to find a trainer. That said, in a game like this? Anywhere, as long as you don't  get max health /spells/abilities back on level up like certain games. That's lame.

[Caerdon]

[ - - ] as long as you don't  get max health /spells/abilities back on level up like certain games. That's lame.

 

I agree. It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason.

[dorkboy]

Really dislike healing when levelling up, feels so phoney for some reason. However, if level up requires resting anyway.. more birds per stone.

[Ztirual]

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I feel like leveling up is much like a perspective shift, and as knowledge is gained, then you should immediately reap the benefits of it. If I'm trying to learn to ride a bike, I may fall off my bike a dozen times, but I shouldn't have to go home and sleep on it to learn how to do it. However, sometimes I do feel like certain tasks require an incubation time from the time you learn it and when you can activate that knowledge. Someone who has to meet a tight deadline, and it doesn't matter how it get's done, it must get done. So your brain somehow get's creative, and then you suddenly get the idea for how to solve the problem. In those types of instances, I think it's cool to "level up" when you're using a group to work together to accomplish a task. A coup de grace is an example of how it could be utilized in this game. Maybe in certain situations, the group learns a new tactic that's more effective for felling a giant beast for example.

[Volourn]

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason."

 

No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:

[Ztirual]

I feel like leveling up is much like a perspective shift, and as knowledge is gained, then you should immediately reap the benefits of it. If I'm trying to learn to ride a bike, I may fall off my bike a dozen times, but I shouldn't have to go home and sleep on it to learn how to do it. However, sometimes I do feel like certain tasks require an incubation time from the time you learn it and when you can activate that knowledge. Someone who has to meet a tight deadline, and it doesn't matter how it get's done, it must get done. So your brain somehow get's creative, and then you suddenly get the idea for how to solve the problem. In those types of instances, I think it's cool to "level up" when you're using a group to work together to accomplish a task. A coup de grace is an example of how it could be utilized in this game. Maybe in certain situations, the group learns a new tactic that's more effective for felling a giant beast for example.

I would say that leveling up is the growth of understanding as a whole; understanding being the coming together of intelligence and intellect, where intelligence is both the mind and the organism. We may gather lots of knowledge, but it's not until there is an understanding of that process that there is growth - which is when you level up. Albeit, I realize that this could actually happen in the field, so you would have to rest for the organism to 'level-up,' but for understanding, all that is needed is 'doing,' and you do that everywhere.

[archangel979]

My vote is for "While resting" but I would put that only for difficulties above normal. For normal and below I would rather have "Outside of combat".  No need to make life miserable for people new to IE style of games. Us IE veterans will be playing on harder difficulties anyways. 

[Caerdon]

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason."

 

No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:

 

I guess it's just the games that I've played, then. I honestly can't remember any old-school game aside from Diablo where this happens. Maybe you can educate me.

[Ztirual]

My vote is for "While resting" but I would put that only for difficulties above normal. For normal and below I would rather have "Outside of combat".  No need to make life miserable for people new to IE style of games. Us IE veterans will be playing on harder difficulties anyways. 

Why not make it adjustable? Or rather, have the option to customize the difficulty, including when you want to be able to level up? That seems like a win-win situation to me, as it allows you to really tailor a large part of the experience without removing the experience the developers intend. Albeit, that requires that you know what each setting does, of course. So, in normal difficulty and under you can level up anywhere, and above only while resting. But if that doesn't satisfy you, then why not just customize it so that it floats your boat?

[Marceror]

I too will point out that I'd be okay really with any of the options around this. If Obsidian wants to make it so that leveling up is an event that requires a level of focus, and must be done in a safe place like an inn, I can certainly roll with that.

[Bryy]

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

I would prefer it both ways.

 

Resting at level up restores your health, but outside does not.

[Ztirual]

 

Yeah, the free heal that comes with lvl-up does feel... weird. I mean, I've never had an insight which healed the itching mosquito bite...

I would prefer it both ways.

 

Resting at level up restores your health, but outside does not.

 

Ah, of course, I agree. Leveling up without resting does not heal, but resting at level up does. That seems logical. But when you level up without resting and you are somehow healed by it, then that may be a severe case of a self-compelled and quite radical morphogenetic transformation (I mean, what the hell does that even mean!?). Wounds that might take say, eight hours to heal, simply vanish mysteriously in a moments notice.

[Labadal]

Anyway they do it is fine by me but if I had to choose: Anytime outside of combat.

[Marceror]

Not a fan of heal on level up either.

[Silent Winter]

I voted any time outside combat but I'd also be happy with 'while resting'

 

And as Volourn and others have said: no free heals and spells back on level-up - keep it like IE games.

[Logos]

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

[Caerdon]

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

 

That's not entirely true. Becoming better at something often requires a mental breakthrough or revelation, and that often happens through reflection.

 

For example, in my martial arts training I've often found that some new technique or skill eludes me the entire training session, but after having a good night's sleep and some time to go through it in my head I can immediately do it the very next day. Furthermore, if that breakthrough happens with some fundamental skill, it can affect everything you do, so that discrete chunk can sometimes be a rather big one.

 

Granted, that can also happen in middle of a sparring session, but that, to me, seems less common.

[Sondai]

I like cheese, so level up anytime + free heal. (whew saved me a couple times and you still have to rest for new spells etc.)

 

And of course, if you don't want to level up during combat, one can choose not to do so.

 

I thought both NWN 1-2 and Baldur's Gate allowed leveling during combat...though my memory is more fuzzy on the latter.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Sondai

[nilssab]

 

Whenever I want. "Leveling up" is an abstraction that only makes sense from a meta perspective. In any world you don't become better at anything in discrete chunks; all improvement is gradual. Therefore, because it is an abstraction, I should be able to do it whenever I want, just like pausing the game, saving the game, loading the game, starting the game, or anything else that is not explicitly an action within the game world.

 

That's not entirely true. Becoming better at something often requires a mental breakthrough or revelation, and that often happens through reflection.

 

For example, in my martial arts training I've often found that some new technique or skill eludes me the entire training session, but after having a good night's sleep and some time to go through it in my head I can immediately do it the very next day. Furthermore, if that breakthrough happens with some fundamental skill, it can affect everything you do, so that discrete chunk can sometimes be a rather big one.

 

Granted, that can also happen in middle of a sparring session, but that, to me, seems less common.

 

So, "often happens through reflection", not "always happens through reflection".

I feel this would be better be shown with a mechanic that gives you extra xp when resting, to whichever activities you did during the day.

 

I like cheese, so level up anytime + free heal. (whew saved me a couple times and you still have to rest for new spells etc.)

 

And of course, if you don't want to level up during combat, one can choose not to do so.

 

I thought both NWN 1-2 and Baldur's Gate allowed leveling during combat...though my memory is more fuzzy on the latter.

I like that too when it happens, but I dislike having the thought in my head that I should save my level ups to use them as heals during fights.

 

I think you should be able to level up without level up heal during fights though, makes the boss fights that much more epic when you level up on one of the adds and gets a new skill to kill the boss during the fight.