Police arrest, attack reporters; order reporters NOT to cover protest. IN UNITED STATES.

[Bester]

Civilians, please. There are already dash cams in police cars and yet it didn't prevent Robert Leone being beaten to a pulp.

 

Last I checked, it was like that:

 

 

Robert Leone, 33, was punched repeatedly, tasered at least six times, jumped on and verbally harassed by Pennsylvania state troopers at the conclusion of a 15-mile, low-speed chase through Bradford County, the video and court documents indicate.

[they then attempted to cover it up by killing him in prison on the day of his arrest by beating him AGAIN and not calling an ambulance for 2 hours, but he survived, I can't find the correct quote]

 

After serving more than 2½ years of a 16-to-48-month jail sentence stemming from four misdemeanor (accident involving damage to attended vehicle; fleeing or attempting to elude an officer; simple assault; and resisting arrest), Leone was released last month from Bradford County jail and into parole supervision.

 

 

None of the officers involved in Leone’s beating have faced criminal prosecution, and a Pennsylvania State Police spokeswoman declined to discuss the results of an internal investigation into the incident.

 

I love how US cops always add "assault of police officer" and "resisting arrest" if they don't like the guy. Basically he was beaten to near-death and went to prison for 2 and a half years for a fender bender and not stopping when he was asked to by the cops. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cops didn't even get a slap on the hand for what they did. 

 

In Europe the guy would get a big fine for not stopping and some hours of social labor (or what's it called) and lose his permit. And the cops would go to prison for 2-3 years for doing that. Prison for TWO AND A HALF YEARS FOR THE POOR GUY??? My god. This is exactly why I fear going to America.

 

Anecdotally, in Britain the guy would get scolded by the judge, then they'd drink a cop of tea and he'd go home. Same thing for the cops. Nobody serves time in Britain no matter what they do. If they like go on a killing spree and rob a few banks, they get maybe 2... maybe 3 years max.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Bester

[Gromnir]

 

Anecdotally,

distilled your entire post down to the essential. rodney king comparison in story link is particular noteworthy as rodney king were 1991. am thinking you need better than once every 20 years to be establishing a trend. given the enormous volume o' police stops that occur weekly, monthly, yearly in the US, the excessive force examples is kinda small. widespread use o' tasers actual resulted in a temporary increase in excessive force complaints. am suspecting cops were perhaps a bit too comfortable with application o' a non-lethal attitude adjuster. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/world/europe/russia-jolted-into-action-on-police-brutality.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

yeah, US cops don't seem all that bad by comparison.

 

as an aside...

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/tech/social-media/ferguson-hands-up-igotthetalk/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

is reminding us o' our own anecdotal contribution earlier in this thread. we will note that the talk our father had with us is different than the one many young men get nowadays. we worked at a nor-cal juvenile hall for a bit. heard some odd variations o' "the talk." 

 

"don't let anybody punk you."

 

that were most common variation we heard from kids who had gotten advice from their father. mom advice were typical different. even so, whether kids were crip, blood, norteno, sureno, g-mob or peckerwoods, most o' the kids we dealt with were believing that an essential quality o' manhood were defiance, particularly police defiance, and a stay in juvenile hall were a right o' passage. being sent to prison were often referred to as "going to college." the kids we dealt with seemed to think prison were where they would eventual learn their real trade, though the reality were that you could see just how terrified they was when they came back from court having heard that they would be tried as adults.

 

example: asian kid, chinese, had been in juvenile hall for over a year as his case slowly worked its way through the system. he were in juvi 'cause, as he put it, he went along with friends as they stole a car... stole car and eventual fired a weapon at a cop. he had no freaking idea. he thought 'cause he were a passenger during the high-speed chase, and 'cause his co-conspirators would vouch for him that he did not drive car or shoot a weapon, that he would only be facing car theft charges. one freaking year passes and his attorney never let him know that as a co-conspirator he were facing same charges as his pals? the kid were kinda proud o' the cred he got from being involved in a serious crime. we broke our own personal rule and advised the kid; we told him to ask his attorney 'bout what it actual meant to be a co-conspirator. age seventeen hardarse comes back from lawyer visit crying like a twelve year old girl, and we genuine felt bad for him. 

 

*shrug*

 

strangest/saddest variation o' "the talk" were from sixteen year old who were in j-unit awaiting trial for a double-homicide. his father had given him the most brilliantist advice we ever heard: "never apologize." big surprise he ended up in trouble with the law, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps visiting days at juvi is why we decided we will never have kids. 90% o' the messed up kids in juvenile hall had messed up parents. messed up kids with messed up parents were reinforcing our naive world view. the 10%... scared us. 10% o' the folks who visited were hard working people who clearly loved their children, and the kids loved the parents back... were no creepy vibe. the 10% coulda' been norman rockwell characters... albeit a bit more diverse.  juvi taught us that parenting could be a crap-shoot and we don't gamble. 

Edited August 16, 2014 by Gromnir

[Meshugger]

It's good to know that Bester knows better about travelling in the US than those that have actually done it. Internet sure does strange things to people.

 

For the record, as a scandinavian from the "civilized world", the americans was probably the most polite and welcoming people that i ever met. Probably the best drivers too, i have had more problems travelling in Sweden than in the US. No, Bester is either someone with Aspberger's syndrome, whose whole character lead to all kinds of issues, or he is a troll.

[Walsingham]

I've been stopped by the cops three times in the UK. I was polite and reasonable. Subjected to a search once, zero problems.

 

The only time I had trouble with a US cop was in Manhattan. He accused me of dressing like a mook. Unfortunately he was right.

[Meshugger]

Wearing flip-flips in NYC is heavily frowned upon.

[Bartimaeus]

It's good to know that Bester knows better about travelling in the US than those that have actually done it. Internet sure does strange things to people.

 

For the record, as a scandinavian from the "civilized world", the americans was probably the most polite and welcoming people that i ever met. Probably the best drivers too, i have had more problems travelling in Sweden than in the US. No, Bester is either someone with Aspberger's syndrome, whose whole character lead to all kinds of issues, or he is a troll.

 

As an actual person with Asperger's syndrome, I take offense to the latter half of your post. 

 

Edited August 16, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Orogun01]

I don't know how but I went from reading about Jon Voight condemning Penelope Cruz and Javier Valdez letter about Israel to  how the actual story of Israel is different from how the media has portrayed Zionism since 1946 and all the bad things they've done in achieving the state. Somehow that ended up with the fact that US police departments have taken seminars with Israeli police; even so far that the NYPD apparently has an office on Israel, and that the excuse was to learn counter-terrorism but in actuality they were learning tactics used in the suppression of the public used by the Israeli forces. Same tactics that apparently are being used in this case.

 

[Zoraptor]

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

[Gromnir]

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

please, spell out what you see as coincidence.

 

...

 

this will be good. give us a sec to first grab our tinfoil hat.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

Yes?

 

The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Stun

[Orogun01]

 

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

Yes?

 

The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era.

 

Assault Rifles and everything?

[Gromnir]

 

 

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

Yes?

 

The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era.

 

Assault Rifles and everything?

 

well, actually, yes. is actual the result o' the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991. started as a war on drugs  kinda thing. Congress expanded in 1997... counter-terrorism were included as rationale. 

 

try searching 1033 program. we could explain, but am doubting that would help you much. 

 

in any event, we would still like to hear zor spin the israeli/st. louis connection.  we will make popcorn.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

Orogun said the NYPD were taking seminars with the Israeli police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis police department had done the same. That the way I did it bunched your panties is more because you're still butthurt than anything else, and a completely unexpected bonus.

 

I can only imagine that any mention of the Israeli Police, especially from me, is a bit of a touchstone issue due to Tariq Khdeir- you know, the guy you assured us was a hardened 15 year old thug who got filmed being beaten up by Israeli Police then quietly released without charge when they couldn't produce any evidence for him having done anything wrong; exactly as I said would happen. They were pretty butthurt, too.

[Stun]

 

 

I'm sure that's a coincidence.

Yes?

 

The police tactics we're seeing in Ferguson pre-date that 2011 press release by several decades. Police were doing this sh*t against protesters way back in the Veitnam era.

 

Assault Rifles and everything?

 

Kent State... Although to be fair, we can blame the National guard for that, if it matters. Edited August 17, 2014 by Stun

[Bryy]

http://new.livestream.com/timcast/events/3295551

 

Best stream right now.

[Gromnir]

Orogun said the NYPD were taking seminars with the Israeli police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis police department had done the same. That the way I did it bunched your panties is more because you're still butthurt than anything else, and a completely unexpected bonus.

 

I can only imagine that any mention of the Israeli Police, especially from me, is a bit of a touchstone issue due to Tariq Khdeir- you know, the guy you assured us was a hardened 15 year old thug who got filmed being beaten up by Israeli Police then quietly released without charge when they couldn't produce any evidence for him having done anything wrong; exactly as I said would happen. They were pretty butthurt, too.

again, what is the point? what conclusions is you deriving from fact that retired former police chief went to israel to learn counter-terrorism? what correlation can you possibly be making between the retired guy's week long visit and events in furgeson?

 

*insert emoticon o' your choice here*

 

...

 

oh, and fact that the moron from florida were released is hardly meaning there were 0 evidence. "He was released on Thursday after pressure from the U.S. State Department," well gosh, am surprised that the israelis let him go. *snort* also, please note that your outta left field reference to tariq complete ignores fact that in that thread we observed that israelis use o' force were "excessive." 

 

and again, 'cause you is being dogged with this obtuse israeli/st louis connection, what possible connection do you think to create? an idiotic florida kid who shows up to an ugly riot wearing a keffiyeh covering his face and carrying a sling (no proof he hurled any rocks 'course) where folks is dressed thus 

 

 

and is hurling rocks at police and surprise o' surprises, he gets serious injured?  so what? does not diminish israeli excess but it sure as hell don't reveal a connection to events in furgeson. the st louis /israel thing is wacky enough, but to somehow reference idiotic florida kids enjoying palestinian style riots while on vacation is getting even beyond your usual strangeness. 

 

go ahead, show us again the connections. you is very amusing when you get squirmy and obtuse.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 17, 2014 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

Please don't slander* Mr Khedeir, again, zero evidence was ever produced that he had a sling- including when the Israeli Police were given opportunity to at his court appearance when he was released without charge. There's this thing called 'presumption of innocence', I believe that concept exists in the US as well, and ignoring it was what initially made you look foolish. Continuing to do so just digs that hole deeper. You probably should apologise, but this being the internet breath shall not be held waiting for that.

 

As for the letter... well, it's been covered already. Orogun said NYPD had trained with Israeli Police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis PD had. Any further conclusions drawn from that are completely your, or anyone else's, own.

 

*ohno its libel cos its written

[averagedog]

Last night, I watched a livestream of the protests going on live. I've got to say, it is VERY HARD for me to hold ANY sympathy for the "protestors" when they are invading stories, looting, and trying to burn others down. I mean, I know they don't trust the police to do their job because the police wanted to protect the officer and the officer's family from possible mob lynchings, but if they want credibility, why the hell are they breaking more laws in the sake of finding justice for one disputed event? This part of "Black In America" culture always baffled  me. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised this is the way the protestors react when all the major media outlets seems to exclusively post stories of "White on Black" or "Black on Black" violence.... Never the other way around or including other ethnicities.

[Walsingham]

I'd be careful drawing any conclusions from media footage of protests.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's pretty well established after Katrina that mainstream media outlets have a practical interest in making any trouble look like anarchy on the streets. It gets people watching, and keeps them watching.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'd be careful drawing any conclusions from media footage of protests.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's pretty well established after Katrina that mainstream media outlets have a practical interest in making any trouble look like anarchy on the streets. It gets people watching, and keeps them watching.

You're more likely to get viewers with shots of violence and disastrous stuff than covering more passive things. I'd argue that most media has a sensationalist bias, but that is a discussion for another time. Edited August 17, 2014 by KaineParker

[Gromnir]

Please don't slander* Mr Khedeir, again, zero evidence was ever produced that he had a sling- including when the Israeli Police were given opportunity to at his court appearance when he was released without charge. There's this thing called 'presumption of innocence', I believe that concept exists in the US as well, and ignoring it was what initially made you look foolish. Continuing to do so just digs that hole deeper. You probably should apologise, but this being the internet breath shall not be held waiting for that.

 

As for the letter... well, it's been covered already. Orogun said NYPD had trained with Israeli Police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis PD had. Any further conclusions drawn from that are completely your, or anyone else's, own.

 

*ohno its libel cos its written

1) you don't know slander/libel any better than you know presumption o' innocence.

 

do we really need to beat you Again with your confusion about presumption o' innocence? btw, is multiple media reports he had a sling, and you sure as hell don't have access to all court documents in this case. hell, you don't even know if evidence was presented. this were a very public event, so, given the ny times v. sullivan line o' cases, you would need to show actual malice (legal malice, not english definition o' malice) if you wanted to try and generate slander (or libel). so, no dice. wanna try another route? 

 

oh, and is no category o' sling-possession slander anyhow. Gromnir is claiming that the kid acted like an idiot and not that he were actual guilty o' a serious crime, or that he had a social disease or other similar categories that result in slander. you got a rough battle showing that a palestinian american kid would have suffered monetary damage resulting from reputation besmirching from inaccurate claims o' sling possession. gotta show damages for slander/libel in such cases. *snort*

 

all o' which Complete misses the point(s). your observation ignores fact that idiot boy thought a violent riot would be a good choice to add to his vacation itinerary. who woulda' ever thought that he might get hurt at a violent riot? and in video his face is clear obscured by keffiyeh, which not only makes claims that ty were an innocent bystander less likely, but it sure as hell would make it far easier for israeli's to mistake florida yutz for folks who were hurling rocks. imagine a bank robbery wherein one o' the innocent bystanders just happened to don a ski mask such as worn by the actual bank robbers. is absolutely shocking that he mighta' got hurt in that situation. HA!

 

and again, what happened to the dolt who thought that joining a riot in palestine were a good idea has what relevance to ferguson?

 

 

2) so, you is gonna pretend orogun is only one making a connection? 

 

"As for the letter... well, it's been covered already. Orogun said NYPD had trained with Israeli Police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis PD had. Any further conclusions drawn from that are completely your, or anyone else's, own."

 

ah, so when you said, "I'm sure that's a coincidence" you were being literal? alternative, and more likely is that you were suggesting that there were indeed some kinda correlation 'tween retired police chief's one week stay in israel to study anti-terrorism and the events in ferguson. am not surprised you is gonna take coward's route and avoid trying to explain yourself... though given your penchant for conspiracy theories, am disappointed that you seem to realize now just how ridiculous trying to link the a retired st. louis cop's week-long trip to israel to learn 'bout anti-terrorism and police tactics in ferguson. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps advice for future: don't use legal vernacular. is a mistake many people make. is ironic that most people use the legal stuff to sound more educated on a topic when it in fact reveals surfeit o' knowledge.  use plain english to express yourself and you will be far less likely to end up with metaphorical pie on your face.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Gromnir

[averagedog]

 

Please don't slander* Mr Khedeir, again, zero evidence was ever produced that he had a sling- including when the Israeli Police were given opportunity to at his court appearance when he was released without charge. There's this thing called 'presumption of innocence', I believe that concept exists in the US as well, and ignoring it was what initially made you look foolish. Continuing to do so just digs that hole deeper. You probably should apologise, but this being the internet breath shall not be held waiting for that.

 

As for the letter... well, it's been covered already. Orogun said NYPD had trained with Israeli Police, I pointed out that the far more relevant St Louis PD had. Any further conclusions drawn from that are completely your, or anyone else's, own.

 

*ohno its libel cos its written

Block "o" Text

 

Either you are using some word to type program that records your voice, or you have an unhealthy addiction to "O"reos :3

 

But seriously, the media is indeed more or less sensationalist when it comes to bad news. That is a given. My beef with the Media however, is that they choose only to report things that are anti conservative if they can help it or simply omit reporting stories that equalize the constant "black on black or white on  African American" violence/ authority vs African Amercans. If the news did not create this culture of modern hatred/mistrust, they certainly are not doing anything to alleviate the tensions. Instead they would rather equivocate (probably a better term for this) the facts and always paint Black people as "helpless victims" while claiming that White people have all the power and ALL the rights.

[Gorgon]

Ohh come on, what does it matter if it was in Israel. They had to learn crowd control somewhere. 

[Malcador]

Wonder how much 'counter-terrorism' a local city police unit is expected to do.

[Gromnir]

no doubt the st. louis police learned from the israelis to stand back and allow folks to burn buildings and l007 stores. see folks in swat gear and bearing assault weapons ignores just how long these... events, has been allowed to continue, and how relative few people has been serious injured by police... as long as we pretend that police isn't being serious injured.  is not even fair to refer to situation in ferguson as rioting. there is widespread protests during the day, then at night, large number o' jackarses loot and burn shops. am suspecting the israelis would laugh themselves silly at st. louis approach to "crowd control."  

 

much o' the chaos and disorganization o' cops early were not hard to explain.

 

 

please note that not only does state and county have their own cops, but so does many municipalities. check out ferguson on the map. regardless, to see some kinda similarity 'tween feguson events and israeli approach is laughable. one retired county chief visits israel for a week to learn counter-terrorism, and a couple o' our tinfoil hat brigade makes a connection regardless o' how actual events is unfolding in missouri.

 

btw, am not suggesting that israeli way is correct. on the contrary, israeli no-nonsense approach would result in widespread condemnation here in the US. 

 

HA! Good Fun!