Slight adjustion to Combat Mechanics (Real Time vs. Turn Based)

[Sir Davion]

Hello,

 

first post here but i'm following the development of PoE for a decent amount of time. 

 

When i watched the twitch stream yesterday and Adam wiping agaisnt those beetles i was kind of wondering if it would be a good idea to implement an option to switch from "real time" to turn based. The game is basically turn based anyways. Wouldn't it be an elegant solution that if you hit the pause button it switches to turn based and if you hit the button again it goes back to real time. It would basically change nothing gameplay wise for people that played baldurs gate (could still be played the same way).

 

My reasoning:

 

The fights can become quite chaotic with 6 party members that each have numerous abilities fighting against multiple enemies and reacting to status effects like poison. That may end in spamming the pause button just in order to prevent that a valuable action of a party member isnt wasted in a standard attack but instead used for a special ability. Doing it this way you could still play real time most of the time when micromanagement is not necessary and use pause occassionally as you need it.

 

My proposed solution:

 

Maybe introduce an option in game settings so if Baldurs gate purists don't want that option they can ignore it. If you activate the option in the settings pressing the pause button would not pause the game but activating pause as soon as one of your party members hasn't got an active command in its buffer (e.g. attack enemy, cast spell, use special ability). That means every time one of your party members executed the last command you gave the game will pause automatically and you can assign a new command to this party member. When you press the button again the game jumps back to it's real time mode just like it is now.

[Silent Winter]

^In what way is it 'basically turn based anyway'?

Unlike BG, they're not going on 6s turns.  (Even then that was only approximating turn-based).

This is actually real-time - would require a major overhaul to make the monsters and NPCs act by turns.

Pause every few seconds if you want (I probably will at first) - but there'll be no turn-based options.

 

as soon as one of your party members hasn't got an active command in its buffer (e.g. attack enemy, cast spell, use special ability). That means every time one of your party members executed the last command you gave the game will pause automatically and you can assign a new command to this party member

 

There was a similar auto-pause setting in BG - there may be one in PoE

[Elerond]

Implementing turn-based system in this state of development addition to RTwP is something that this project don't have enough resources. Although solution what you propose isn't turn-based system, but auto pause.

 

And I would point out that game isn't turn-based in anyways, even same sense what IE games were, as it uses timed actions instead of combat rounds.

 

Game don't currently have command queue, but your character's should auto attack enemies after they have executed your command, but that was not activated or it didn't work in shown demo build.

 

And at least in release version there should be quite lot of auto pause options which you can select ones that you feel work best with your play style.

[Sir Davion]

I actually think it's the other way round basically everything is turn based. Our so perceived "real time" games have just really small time steps and  the possibility of competing partys being able to give commands during the same time step. I don't want to actually want to change the core game mechanics. I think you described what i mean best with autopause (Actually glad to hear sth. like that existed in Baldurs gate so maybe it's already implemented here).  If it's not implemented i don't think an option like that is too hard to realize.

 

Let's just say i would love to have a good customizable autopause that allows me to micromanage the actions of my party during combat without having to spam the pause button.

[neo6874]

The combat mechanics are already RTwP, so I would imagine that there are options available in the menus such as "pause at the end of the round" that were available in BG / IWD.

[PrimeJunta]

It's not turn-based under the hood (unlike IE). Timing is based on animation frames. Actions take different times and can overlap freely. There's no way to make it turn-based without a massive overhaul.

 

(For the record, I prefer turn-based too.)

 

Good auto-pause settings would be nice though. Also needs auto-attack and perhaps some basic party AI (not where they run around manically and get into trouble immediately though, like in some games I could mention), like Sensuki's been pointing out.

[Greensleeve]

It's not turn-based under the hood (unlike IE). Timing is based on animation frames. Actions take different times and can overlap freely. There's no way to make it turn-based without a massive overhaul.

 

(For the record, I prefer turn-based too.)

 

Good auto-pause settings would be nice though. Also needs auto-attack and perhaps some basic party AI (not where they run around manically and get into trouble immediately though, like in some games I could mention), like Sensuki's been pointing out.

 

Josh has mentioned a plethora of auto-pause options, including an option that will pause the game every X seconds, where X is freely chosen by the player. 

[Elerond]

I actually think it's the other way round basically everything is turn based. Our so perceived "real time" games have just really small time steps and  the possibility of competing partys being able to give commands during the same time step. I don't want to actually want to change the core game mechanics. I think you described what i mean best with autopause (Actually glad to hear sth. like that existed in Baldurs gate so maybe it's already implemented here).  If it's not implemented i don't think an option like that is too hard to realize.

 

Let's just say i would love to have a good customizable autopause that allows me to micromanage the actions of my party during combat without having to spam the pause button.

 

In real-time games, game time progresses continuously according to the game clock. Players perform actions simultaneously as opposed to in sequential units or turns.

 

In turn-based games, game flow is partitioned into well-defined and visible parts, called turns.

[Infinitron]

Pausing a real-time game regularly doesn't make it turn-based. It's only turn-based if the characters take turns, ie, only one character at a time can perform actions in between "pauses". I'm amazed by how many people fail to realize this.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Infinitron

[Pray]

Is there a slow time mode?

[Lephys]

There was, unless it got pulled. They said there will be full-pause, and a "just slow everything down a ton" mode, so that you can still have stuff going on (if slowly) while issuing orders and such. Probably good for those times when timing is of the essence, and you don't want to rapi-pause 10 times just to catch it at the right time. "Okay, that enemy's attack TECHNICALLY landed, finally, so NOW I'll cast this spell!"

 

Haven't heard anything about slo-mo in a while, though.

[Ondb]

But its really turn-base game. The close, range combat is 1+1 = 2s.

The spell casting is 3s animation + 3s restoration = 6s

 

Its effectively turn-base combat.   

[Caerdon]

But its really turn-base game. The close, range combat is 1+1 = 2s.

The spell casting is 3s animation + 3s restoration = 6s

 

Its effectively turn-base combat.   

 

You're not making any sense.

[PrimeJunta]

@Ondb no it's not. However long the individual actions take, they're not synced. Fred the Fighter starts attack (30 ticks) at tick 0, Wanda the Wizard starts her spellcasting (90 ticks) at tick 35, Tony the Thief his escape move (15 ticks) at tick 44, while Marky the Mook swings at Fred (30 ticks) on tick 15. This means the actions will finish at ticks 29, 124, 59, and 45, respectively. I.e. your "turns" don't start and end at synchronized times, and the actions all happen at once. You can set all kinds of auto-pause conditions of course—hence, real-time with pause—but it's not the same thing at all as turn-based where every character takes an action on his turn, while the others wait until their turn.

[Tartantyco]

I think he's being sarcastic, guys...

[Isokon]

There was, unless it got pulled. They said there will be full-pause, and a "just slow everything down a ton" mode, so that you can still have stuff going on (if slowly) while issuing orders and such. Probably good for those times when timing is of the essence, and you don't want to rapi-pause 10 times just to catch it at the right time. "Okay, that enemy's attack TECHNICALLY landed, finally, so NOW I'll cast this spell!"

 

Haven't heard anything about slo-mo in a while, though.

I believe you can see the slo-mo for a moment in one of the gamescom streams. The characters' movement slows down for a second or two, and then speeds up, as Adam apparently wants to save time on returning to the guy that gave him the ogre quest.

 

Jump to 13:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXUa32OzVh8

[Lephys]

I believe you can see the slo-mo for a moment in one of the gamescom streams. The characters' movement slows down for a second or two, and then speeds up, as Adam apparently wants to save time on returning to the guy that gave him the ogre quest.

 

Jump to 13:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXUa32OzVh8

Ahh! I've been quite busy recently, and am super behind on my video footages. I need to try and watch them sometime. I would when I get home, but, of course... now I've got to download and play the beta immediately upon getting home, haha.

 

Glad slo-mo didn't go away, though.

[Ondb]

I think he's being sarcastic, guys...

I was...

 

But i hope that not all spells are going to be (3s+3s). I really hope that some of then are gonna be faster ( 2s+2s, or 1s+1s) or maybe longer....

[Zansatsu]

Is there a slow time mode?

Yes

[Klixen]

After playing Divinity: Original Sin I've come to the sad realization that I really hate turn based combat. I like everything else about the game, I just hate the combat.

 

So I'm incredibly relieved to see that PoE is going to use real time combat. However, I do support the OP's suggestion to have the option of using turn based or real time combat. Options are wonderful! The more the better I say!

 

Unfortunately, as others have said, I think it's a bit late in the game's development to implement it. Still, depending on how mod friendly the game is, somebody might be able to add it with a mod.

[Leferd]

Having both a turn based and RtwP and switch between the two will most likely end up as a disaster.

 

Arcanum was a prime example.