Update #79: Graphics and Rendering

[Azmodiuz]

 

Im wondering the same thing, if I will be able to mod the textures/maps.

 

I also hope we're going past 2560x1440... thats like soo old...  even 6-7 years ago I was using 2560x1600, and now its been a year i've been using 4k.

Want a cookie?

 

Yes Please !

 

 

But seems some of my concerns were addressed. Seems there will be a decent advantage of having 4k res then. Im happy.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Correction: What I said about the MacBook pro is wrong, they might as well use native resolution.

 

My point was though that we do not know if that information is now relevant. They may have changed the 720p and 1440p assets to a single 1080p asset size.

 

Theoretically doing two asset sizes means double the paint over work and also perhaps some disk size issues for the 1440p version.

There's no evidence for that, it's just pointless speculation.

 

They could do two paint over passes for each resolution asset and it would look better but I doubt they will because the benefits aren't worth the cost, they'll just downsample the painted 2560x1440 backgrounds.

Edited June 5, 2014 by AwesomeOcelot

[rjshae]

Correction: What I said about the MacBook pro is wrong, they might as well use native resolution.

 

My point was though that we do not know if that information is now relevant. They may have changed the 720p and 1440p assets to a single 1080p asset size.

 

Theoretically doing two asset sizes means double the paint over work and also perhaps some disk size issues for the 1440p version.

There's no evidence for that, it's just pointless speculation.

 

They could do two paint over passes for each resolution asset and it would look better but I doubt they will because the benefits aren't worth the cost, they'll just downsample the painted 2560x1440 backgrounds.

 

Yep. They can also ship a single asset size with the game then provide a higher resolution as a supplemental download. That will address the potential disk space issue.

[AndreaColombo]

Yep. They can also ship a single asset size with the game then provide a higher resolution as a supplemental download. That will address the potential disk space issue.

 

4K art asset download pack = WIN.

 

Please oh please on please oh please?

[Azmodiuz]

 

Yep. They can also ship a single asset size with the game then provide a higher resolution as a supplemental download. That will address the potential disk space issue.

 

4K art asset download pack = WIN.

 

Please oh please on please oh please?

 

I agree with this.

[Zwiebelchen]

At some point, the weakest link in the chain are your eyes...

[Azmodiuz]

At some point, the weakest link in the chain are your eyes...

considering the visual importance of a videogame,right?

[AwesomeOcelot]

As long as we can build larger displays we'll want higher resolution, 32K displays built into the windows of our homes. In terms of pixels per inch we've reached that point on phones, I've had a 445 ppi phone for 7 months now, I don't think increasing pixel density will make any difference to it. Frequency, refresh rate, since our eyes don't see in frames there may be a lot more room to improve after 120hz. Blacks and colour, OLED is meant to be much better.

[Ineth]

No one will be able to tell the difference between a paint-over done at 720p, and a paint-over done at 1440p and then down-sampled using Photoshop.

 

On the other hand if they just stick the 1440p one on a texture and let OpenGL/DirectX down-sample on the fly, that may be different matter...

[Lephys]

At some point, the weakest link in the chain are your eyes...

Thanks for the mental image. I now like to think that the Watcher uses a length of chain made out of eyeballs as his weapon. It's unique, so it's got some spiffy name, like the Thresher of Vigilance or something.

[NWN_babaYaga]

I realy realy like your complete art approach this time guys. The way you have managed to combine 2D and 3D is perfect imo. Perfect in the sense that it looks great and seems to suck me into the environment. The atmosphere is there and you focus on the details that are essential in a way to round up everything into a balanced experience. Everything in a game has to fit in and yeah, thats what i see here.

 

someone mentioned that dynamic sun or "moon" shadow... well. I couldnt care less as long the area feels "natural" or believable. And the windows are cool, i love animated windows... i know that from nwn

 

So once you start focusing on a little bit floating feets of a creature by focusing on it permanently you destroy your own view of the scene later once you PLAY it. You dont run around checking for little bugs imo... thats what QA is for :D

Edited June 6, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Azmodiuz]

But if we didn't address the feet, shadow, floating etc... we would be concerned it wouldn't get polished to satisfaction in the end.

[NWN_babaYaga]

But if we didn't address the feet, shadow, floating etc... we would be concerned it wouldn't get polished to satisfaction in the end.

true. And i didnt say it´s not good to mention things that doesnt seem to be correct or cant be improved!

[Lephys]

So once you start focusing on a little bit floating feets of a creature by focusing on it permanently you destroy your own view of the scene later once you PLAY it. You dont run around checking for little bugs imo... thats what QA is for :D

It's not that we're specifically focusing on floating feet. We're simply noticing and pointing out, just in case.

 

I'm almost certain any of the dev team observing their own handiwork isn't failing to notice such things. But, you never know. They're very busy. Maybe they got the floating issue fixed, and it just popped up again in like one instance. In which case, it would just be a bug. But, either way, there's no harm in observing it and pointing it out.

[Zwiebelchen]

As long as we can build larger displays we'll want higher resolution, 32K displays built into the windows of our homes. In terms of pixels per inch we've reached that point on phones, I've had a 445 ppi phone for 7 months now, I don't think increasing pixel density will make any difference to it. Frequency, refresh rate, since our eyes don't see in frames there may be a lot more room to improve after 120hz. Blacks and colour, OLED is meant to be much better.

 

Not neccessarily as the human field of view is actually very limited, as you can see in this image:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/files/60687/2-visual-acuity.jpg

 

Everything outside the 'shape' area is practically useless for gaming. Important UI elements have to be within the 5-10° margin. Semi-important UI elements should at least be within the 'shape' area, so that you notice that there is 'something going on' and can then react by focusing that element with your eyes.

 

If you got a bigger screen, naturally, the distance between yourself and the screen has to increase in order to monitor all important UI elements on the fly. But there's only so much detail your eyes can see. Remember that there isn't an infinite number rods and cones in your eye. So practically, the human eye has a naturally built-in "maximum resolution". And this resolution is far less than you think. The only difference between the human and a HD camera is, that this resolution is more of a "soft cap". The human brain uses memory and analytical algorithms to fill in information that can not be physically detected by the human eye. That's why you don't instantly lose your 3d-perception of the environment as soon as you close one eye. The brain extrapolates that information from memory and experience.

Focusing temporarily increases the amount of detail the human eye-brain mechanism can track. But it requires concentration and is an exhausting process. Relaxed watching has a much lower resolution than you think.

 

Here's a nice diagram to consider:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

 

A 2160p resolution only matters below the purple line. Which means that you need an exceptionally large screen AND a very close distance to your screen to notice the difference. For gaming purposes, this is very impractical, as there's no clear focus point on the action as is with movies. You need to monitor those UI elements after all, so you can't be that close. And you got to read that onscreen text.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[Prometheus]

Seems to be that there will be no break this week.

Josh Sawyer has posted on Something Awful forums that there will be an update tomorrow morning:

There will be an update tomorrow morning.

source(behind a paywall) Edited June 10, 2014 by Prometheus

[Flow]

I'm assuming we'll see links here to articles produced by E3 preview invitees. Or if there were no plans to do that, please plan to do that.

[Lephys]

The reason there are 3 E's is because it's the sound of excitement:

 

"Eee! 8D!"

[Bryy]

Seems to be that there will be no break this week.

Josh Sawyer has posted on Something Awful forums that there will be an update tomorrow morning:

There will be an update tomorrow morning.

source(behind a paywall)

 

THIS ALIGNS WITH MY INTERESTS.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Everything outside the 'shape' area is practically useless for gaming.

That's nonsense, any gamer shifts their focus and while essential immediate data is best placed centre screen, in games where you control the camera, there's a lot of data that's not like that.

 

If you got a bigger screen, naturally, the distance between yourself and the screen has to increase in order to monitor all important UI elements on the fly.

That's not optimal, you don't need all the elements in your focus, and there are obvious other uses such as picture in picture, split-screen.

 

Which means that you need an exceptionally large screen AND a very close distance to your screen to notice the difference.

That chart only applies to peasants, Pillars of Eternity isn't going to be played by them. Gaming at a desk, your monitor is 2-3' away. At 12" people can see at least 500ppi.

 

For gaming purposes, this is very impractical, as there's no clear focus point on the action as is with movies.

Only if you have a rare medical condition where you can't move your eyes. The focus point on the action can be determined by the player.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I'm assuming we'll see links here to articles produced by E3 preview invitees.

That's improbable actually, according to the tweets Sensuki amassed the game previews are under NDA until next week.

[Flow]

 

I'm assuming we'll see links here to articles produced by E3 preview invitees.

That's improbable actually, according to the tweets Sensuki amassed the game previews are under NDA until next week.

 

 

Well, yeah. I'm not expecting links to articles which haven't been posted yet. Obviously they won't appear until the NDA has expired.

[WorstUsernameEver]

 

 

I'm assuming we'll see links here to articles produced by E3 preview invitees.

That's improbable actually, according to the tweets Sensuki amassed the game previews are under NDA until next week.

 

 

Well, yeah. I'm not expecting links to articles which haven't been posted yet. Obviously they won't appear until the NDA has expired.

 

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the update would include links/mostly be made of links to previews.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Hey Adam, or graphics team... Is there any chance you guys could do something like a gradient fader for the windows, so the color that emits at night fades in and out slightly like the light that is on a wall from candles or fire? The few ways I was thinking of how to do it probably wouldn't be too much extra work. You could even take it a step further and use really low res animations and have shadows behind the glass as ya walk by. keep up the good work. By the way, what type of Post processing fx are ya guys planning on having in the game besides choosing resolution?

[Lephys]

That would actually be pretty awesome: subtle environmental effects on the UI. 8D!