Spill your blasphemous opinions on CRPGs here

[Orogun01]

I see -- I suppose I might have some ideas & opinions now to share. Thanks for clarification! 

You shouldn't get bogged down by semantics, just spill your general RPG blasphemous opinions here. You will feel better, like when I say things like :

 

Bioware's suspension of disbelief relies on lowering the viewer's IQ, and that explains the condition of the BSN. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Stats and leveling aren't needed for a good crpg.

 

The KOTOR games have such terrible combat that the thought of replaying them is cringe-inducing.

 

Low-level gameplay is boring as hell.

 

Balance should come before ego stroking magiphiles.

[Junai]

Blasphemy..

 

- Planescape Torment was boring as hell. 

- Turn based is boring as hell.

- 3D is overrated.

- Most homegrown world/campaign-setting created by crpg developers are just cheap FR rip-offs.

- IWD1 was the best game ever.

- NWN2 blew.

- Everyone loves powergaming.

- Everyone wants another 100+ hour long D&D cRPG.

 

 

J.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...got lots, but one major one...canna take anyone seriously in a cRPG discussion who didna enjoy/understand Planescape: Torment...jus' canna...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Monte Carlo]

Blasphemy..

 

- Planescape Torment was boring as hell. 

- Turn based is boring as hell.

- 3D is overrated.

- Most homegrown world/campaign-setting created by crpg developers are just cheap FR rip-offs.

- IWD1 was the best game ever.

- NWN2 blew.

- Everyone loves powergaming.

- Everyone wants another 100+ hour long D&D cRPG.

 

 

J.

 

I always liked you.

[Hassat Hunter]

I always liked you.

Guess that's the end of the romance

[Humanoid]

You're missing the fade to black.

[Orogun01]

I thought it did happen... or did I just black out? Did I get some?

[ManifestedISO]

Because MC is dating KP now. I saw 'em in the back of the pub. 

[Piccolo]

Stats and leveling aren't needed for a good crpg.

 

Stats and levelling don't necessarily need to be part of the UI, but there does have to be some form of numerical progression working under the bonnet in order for a game to even be considered an RPG. Without that, you're playing an action game or an adventure game. And if the progression is too basic, you're playing an action/adventure game with RPG elements.

[Bartimaeus]

Stats and leveling aren't needed for a good crpg

 

This is actually the reason I can't play through Fallout 3/New Vegas. I absolutely detest the leveling/stat system. I think they're "okay" for non-combat skill checks - like determining if you can defuse the bomb in Megaton - but for active gameplay, like (and especially) combat? I can't stand a weapon artificially being absolute garbage - both in terms of accuracy and damage - at the beginning of a game, and then becoming absolutely awesome in both by the time you've maxed out your "skill" in whatever relevant stat dump. I would love to play with a more Stalker-esque system, where a weapon is what a weapon bloody well is, exactly the same for everyone - for better or for worse - and you can't do squat to change it, except aim better.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Humanoid]

An RPG is just an adventure game where you get to choose options not because they're correct but because they're in character.

 

You want some degree of persistence in an RPG, but it need not be in the form of stats or any other numerical scale, it simply needs to track those past options, be they binary, ternary or n-ary.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Because MC is dating KP now. I saw 'em in the back of the pub.

He cheated with Walsingham.

 

Stats and levelling don't necessarily need to be part of the UI, but there does have to be some form of numerical progression working under the bonnet in order for a game to even be considered an RPG. Without that, you're playing an action game or an adventure game. And if the progression is too basic, you're playing an action/adventure game with RPG elements.

An RPG is just an adventure game where you get to choose options not because they're correct but because they're in character.

 

You want some degree of persistence in an RPG, but it need not be in the form of stats or any other numerical scale, it simply needs to track those past options, be they binary, ternary or n-ary.

I feel Humanoid's response is close enough to what I would've wrote.

 

This is actually the reason I can't play through Fallout 3/New Vegas. I absolutely detest the leveling/stat system. I think they're "okay" for non-combat skill checks - like determining if you can defuse the bomb in Megaton - but for active gameplay, like (and especially) combat? I can't stand a weapon artificially being absolute garbage - both in terms of accuracy and damage - at the beginning of a game, and then becoming absolutely awesome in both by the time you've maxed out your "skill" in whatever relevant stat dump. I would love to play with a more Stalker-esque system, where a weapon is what a weapon bloody well is, exactly the same for everyone - for better or for worse - and you can't do squat to change it, except aim better.

I have to agree, even though I enjoyed New Vegas quite a lot. It just doesn't make sense to have stats determine weapon power in a game with action based combat.

 

Morrowind was much worse at this though.

[Nepenthe]

- Dragon Age 2, while flawed in some respects, was a very good game.  It's up there with BG2 in the games I replay the most.

 

Same here. Along with Deus Ex, Deus Ex HR and Red Alert 2.

 

Been a year and a half since my last Mass Effect 1-2 playthroughs and I'm not sure how likely I'm to approach them again, but they are quite high in the amount of playthroughs as well...

[Piccolo]

An RPG is just an adventure game where you get to choose options not because they're correct but because they're in character.

 

You want some degree of persistence in an RPG, but it need not be in the form of stats or any other numerical scale, it simply needs to track those past options, be they binary, ternary or n-ary.

 

If you're referring to storyline or dialogue choices, then I don't really consider that to be a defining or essential feature of the genre. All RPGs have to have some kind of numerical progression in place, but not all of them have to have storyline and dialogue choices. A lot of the old RPGs didn't even have much of a storyline or dialogue at all, let alone choices to make.

 

Choices are just something that has been taken from the adventure genre  later on and added to RPGs in order to give them more flavour and complexity. It doesn't matter how you interpret such choices, they are by no means a defining feature of an RPG on their own.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Piccolo

[mkreku]

- D&D is only relevant to people desperately clinging to childhood memories of sweaty nerds spending the summer in their mom's basement.

 

- People who claim they understand Planescape: Torment and accuse everyone who don't like it of not are usually the ones blinded by the pseudo-philosophical writing in Torment because they've never read a real book. No, your fantasy crap literature doesn't count.

[Monte Carlo]

- People who claim they understand Planescape: Torment and accuse everyone who don't like it of not are usually the ones blinded by the pseudo-philosophical writing in Torment because they've never read a real book. No, your fantasy crap literature doesn't count.

 

That might sting some of the people here like a whip, but that doesn't mean it ain't true.

[alanschu]

Actually I have to rethink my position. Seeing people come into this thread and take up defense against the various blasphemous opinions has actually become rather entertaining.

[Humanoid]

 

An RPG is just an adventure game where you get to choose options not because they're correct but because they're in character.

 

You want some degree of persistence in an RPG, but it need not be in the form of stats or any other numerical scale, it simply needs to track those past options, be they binary, ternary or n-ary.

 

If you're referring to storyline or dialogue choices, then I don't really consider that to be a defining or essential feature of the genre. All RPGs have to have some kind of numerical progression in place, but not all of them have to have storyline and dialogue choices. A lot of the old RPGs didn't even have much of a storyline or dialogue at all, let alone choices to make.

 

Choices are just something that has been taken from the adventure genre  later on and added to RPGs in order to give them more flavour and complexity. It doesn't matter how you interpret such choices, they are by no means a defining feature of an RPG on their own.

 

Those old games were rubbish and something I'm glad we've left behind.

 

Less bluntly and therefore less in keeping with this topic title, plenty of PnP RPG sessions end without a single dice being rolled. That's not to say they have no conditionals or element of chance, but the variables aren't really numerical as such. I mean technically you could have a gender stat that's either 0 or 1 I guess - or indeed 0.5.

 

 

 

(Perhaps disconcertingly, I'm enjoying indulging my inner Volourn in this way)

[Bartimaeus]

 

An RPG is just an adventure game where you get to choose options not because they're correct but because they're in character.

 

You want some degree of persistence in an RPG, but it need not be in the form of stats or any other numerical scale, it simply needs to track those past options, be they binary, ternary or n-ary.

 

If you're referring to storyline or dialogue choices, then I don't really consider that to be a defining or essential feature of the genre. All RPGs have to have some kind of numerical progression in place, but not all of them have to have storyline and dialogue choices. A lot of the old RPGs didn't even have much of a storyline or dialogue at all, let alone choices to make.

 

Choices are just something that has been taken from the adventure genre  later on and added to RPGs in order to give them more flavour and complexity. It doesn't matter how you interpret such choices, they are by no means a defining feature of an RPG on their own.

 

 

I can't help but notice that a game within the genre we're supposedly discussing would be called a Roleplaying Game, not an Increase Your Meaningless Stats Game.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[marelooke]

I really liked Tali in ME1/2.

[Humanoid]

Is that statement intended to be one of praise for those two games, or a subtle damning of the third game?

[marelooke]

Is that statement intended to be one of praise for those two games, or a subtle damning of the third game?

Both, I guess. I haven't spent nearly the same amount of time with ME3 as with the other two.

 

I thought the way the entire Quarian-Geth situation was dealt with was pretty weak (in fact, I thought the way they dealt with most situations in ME3 was rather weak, except for Tuchanka I guess which I thought was pretty great) Though I should probably play through the game again to see what they changed after I played it (and to refresh my memory).

[Gizmo]

- D&D is only relevant to people desperately clinging to childhood memories of sweaty nerds spending the summer in their mom's basement.

That might sting some of the people here like a whip, but that doesn't mean it ain't true.

Or they are people that are not entirely focused on being He-man and want an impartial gaming system with time tested rules for representing a balanced experience; one that really excites when things go their way ~because they know it doesn't have to (and because they know it might not continue to).

 

Games like Skyrim & Oblivion are the very antithesis of D&D and all it represents... [How's that for a blasphemous cRPG opinion?]

That may sting like a whip to some, but that doesn't mean it ain't true.

 

- People who claim they understand Planescape: Torment and accuse everyone who don't like it of not are usually the ones blinded by the pseudo-philosophical writing in Torment because they've never read a real book. No, your fantasy crap literature doesn't count.

Some jokes you have to understand the reasons behind the humor ~or it's not funny. With Planescape it helps to understand the setting and the concepts involved... If you don't then the game is a wordy mess... if you do; (or even think you do)... It can be a masterwork. Planescape is a better RPG than Fallout 1 IMO. Edited March 13, 2014 by Gizmo

[Tigranes]

I've read Kant, Spinoza, Deleuze, Nietzsche, what have you, and Torment is still a superb experience. It's certainly better than most ham-fisted philosophising in popular culture (e.g. Ghost in the Shell).