JFSOCC Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 having read the rest of the interview. I have to say, I am EXTREMELY disappointed that there aren't going to be modding tools. Strong modding tools are what keeps a game and it's community alive LONG after other games would have been forgotten. It's why people are STILL making mods for morrowind. I think it's a collosal mistake not to release a tool for modding and editing as much as possible. I think saying that you'll release tools (maybe) for "Table-based stuff should be easily editable because it's in a text file" that's pretty much providing lip-service to editors. I think you are making a gigantic mistake by not releasing a comprehensive modding tool. Gigantic. really screw the romance news, this is what should be the controversy. Imagine how much you are going to lose out on! countless mods, encouraging new modders (potential future employees), a cap on creativity, community engagement, fan driven content. I think it's just terribly stupid. It ain't that bad. There were no modding tools released for the IE games either. Didn't stop modders from successfully modding the bejeebers out of ALL of them anyway. took long enough for many of them. You can't begin to count the nr of mods there are for Fallout 3/nv which has tools released. The nr of mods for the IE games are fairly limited in the years since they've been released. I'm sure "modders will find a way" but it will be at the expense of a large potential userbase who would otherwise have exercised their creativity, but now leave it to the dedicated few, willing to work with opaque tools and home-made solutions. 4 Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.---Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.
Sir Chaox Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) @Kjaamor I don't think a romance written by someone who cringes at the idea of writing one would be all that much fun. Except in an ohgodmybrainpleaseno kind of way. Fair statement Junta, but I also fear for the overall quality of writing if Sawyer thinks not one writer on their staff is capable of writing a decent romance. Which is basically what he just said in blunt terms. I suppose it could be interpreted that way, but I believe he meant it more like "I'm not confident we will be able to execute romances at a high level of quality due to time and resource constraints." I mean it takes time to write something good (no matter how experienced you are), and I'm glad they are focusing on more important aspects of the game from a writing perspective (overarching story and overall companion interaction). The writers on this project, including MCA and Ziets, are mostly not interested in doing typical fantasy fanfare; it is against their M.O. ... "Decent" romance would not be one of their goals. Edited February 11, 2014 by Sir Chaox 1
Iakus Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 This is bad news and concerns me immensely. I am one of those that believes Romance adds to the realism and immersive aspect of your journey in an RPG. Especially around your interaction with party members. Also I don't understand why Obsidian wouldn't want to include something in PoE that the majority of fans want Even if 100% of fans wanted them, I don't believe we have the time and other resources to implement them well. I am not inherently opposed to romances, but I don't want to spend time implementing something I'm not confident we will be able to execute at a high level of quality. I understand the reason, but I'm still disappointed. Hopefully the modding community will be able to remedy this. 1
Stun Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) It ain't that bad. There were no modding tools released for the IE games either. Didn't stop modders from successfully modding the bejeebers out of ALL of them anyway.took long enough for many of them. You can't begin to count the nr of mods there are for Fallout 3/nv which has tools released. The nr of mods for the IE games are fairly limited in the years since they've been released. I'm sure "modders will find a way" but it will be at the expense of a large potential userbase who would otherwise have exercised their creativity, but now leave it to the dedicated few, willing to work with opaque tools and home-made solutions. Just how many potential modders do you think PoE can ever have anyway, even IF they released a toolset? Edited February 11, 2014 by Stun
Hiro Protagonist II Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) I would have thought one of the biggest hurdles would be the creation of 2d art backgrounds for the game. Edited February 11, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II
Pyrrhic Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 My reaction as a modder to no romances... 6
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Pillars of Eternity will delve into themes like "racism and more pervasive racism than just bold-faced racism", explained Sawyer, "like social racism or institutional racism". Class problems will be explored... This sounds like fun.
Pshaw Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 I gotta say it's a bit of a let down, I like romances in my RPGs and tend to feel that it makes a character feel a tad more realistic when such things are included. That said I'm not holding out for any fan modded romances either. As much as modded content can be wonderful I've yet to see any original NPCs really be a worthwhile addition to a game. So I'll chalk this one one up to oh well and hope for some romance options in future rpgs. K is for Kid, a guy or gal just like you. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up, since there's nothin' a kid can't do.
Karkarov Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Just how many potential modders do you think PoE can ever have anyway, even IF they released a toolset? It is based on Unity, they will find a way. I do agree with others though that the lack of official mod/toolset support is actually a far larger foul than the no romance stuff. If you are looking for something to turn into a stretch goal to get more funding forget more outdoor areas, put a modding toolset on the table and I will up my pledge. Edited February 11, 2014 by Karkarov 3
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Yeah I think a modding toolset as a stretch goal is a good idea. I'm not getting too worked up about this yet --- we don't know enough. There might be proprietary, technical and / or budgetary / resource issues (or a combo of all three). I'm pretty sure Obsidian understand the importance of modding and the (largely positive) legacy of IE modding. 2
Agremont Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Well that sucks for people who like romance I suppose.
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Well that sucks for people who like romance I suppose. No, they can talk to their favourite plushie toy while playing. 1
Ulquiorra Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Im a little disapoited but something disturbes me more .... 1. We have George Ziets, who worked in NWN2 mask and hepled create romance with Safiya (from what i know) so i "buy" idea about poor obsidan writhers that don't know how to halnde at least "acceptable" romance story. 2. We have time for Diablo 1 type of the dungeon but no time for few extra tekst lines ... 3. They whant to establish new brand "Pillars of Eternity" in this year, but in this year also goes Dragon Age 3 fully AA+ game. Most people like romances so propably they will turn to this game. (isn't it hitting your own foot ?) 4. Obsidian promised well desined characters, and if i recall right, most people are is some form of relationships. Cutting it down is like cutting some part of human brain, just like Bethesda did in Skyrim but opposite in a way (hay you have amulet let's marry). 5. If i recall right Pillar fo Eternity was suposed to take inspiration from BG2 and Torment mostly and only "dungeons" from Icewind dale, but from what i seen it will be mostly Icewind Dale with some Neverwinter Nights 2 elements ... weird. 6. Why do i get the impresion that in this topic "romances ets", proromancers are seen as worse then "don't giva ..damn" type of presons or non-romances zealots... ? Is it just me or i don't understand something ? Im personaly a little disapointed but i will still play this game ... But i have strage feeling that in the end i shoud be gratefull if my char whoud have ability to at least "talk" to his party members ...esh
Monte Carlo Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 3. They want to establish new brand "Pillars of Eternity" in this year, but in this year also goes Dragon Age 3 fully AA+ game. Most people like romances so propably they will turn to this game. (isn't it hitting your own foot ?) Let me help you there. Pillars of Eternity is a CRPG. Dragon Age: Inquisition is a Bioware Game. Big difference. 4
Ulquiorra Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 3. They want to establish new brand "Pillars of Eternity" in this year, but in this year also goes Dragon Age 3 fully AA+ game. Most people like romances so propably they will turn to this game. (isn't it hitting your own foot ?) Let me help you there. Pillars of Eternity is a CRPG. Dragon Age: Inquisition is a Bioware Game. Big difference. No Pillars of Eternity is Crpg that was backed by kickstarter. (and have poor founding) Dragon Age 3 is Action-Rpg (hack and slach)(with by the way is more popular this times) that have waaaay more founding There isn't an issu if it is Biowere or Obsidian becouse both companies made wary good games, and some poorly desined ones to. Only Video-gaming Dinosaur can't see that.
Living One Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 1. We have George Ziets We don't.His work on PoE is done,last I read and he didn't apply to get re-hired full time(Carrie Pattel applied for that positon instead).Same with Torment.Those who keep track of all these info probably have the links. Also romances suck.Sorry. 1
Ulquiorra Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 1. We have George Ziets We don't.His work on PoE is done,last I read and he didn't apply to get re-hired full time(Carrie Pattel applied for that positon instead).Same with Torment.Those who keep track of all these info probably have the links. aaaa... So now i no why there are no possible romance writhers ... then sorry don't make romace obsidian pleease .... ! At least i will not see Elanee type o sh.. romance (with mayby 4 extra lines hah)... Also romances suck.Sorry. No it's a part of role play, if im creating a character that in my opinion whoud like to romance somebody, then not adding it is the same like forceind you romance someone even if your character in your opinion whoud never do so (for example orcish assasin that likes to kill and not talk with anyone). So this is almost like saying ... neh .. wizards are lame cut them down ! or Warrior are stupid who need them ?!
Sir Chaox Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Romances can be good sometimes... but I feel some people are really overreacting here. The game is not going to have less interaction because there are no romances; if anything it will be more reactive because they are not spending effort on making a romance for multiple characters that span the entire length of the game and alter plot at certain points (like DA:O and BG2 did, which I consider to have good romances). Romance is not something to tack on; it should intertwine with the story and effect major choices. And this would be too large a drain on their time and resources, which is what Josh had stated (more or less). 3
Ulquiorra Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Romances can be good sometimes... but I feel some people are really overreacting here. The game is not going to have less interaction because there are no romances; if anything it will be more reactive because they are not spending effort on making a romance for multiple characters that span the entire length of the game and alter plot at certain points (like DA:O and BG2 did, which I consider to have good romances). Romance is not something to tack on; it should intertwine with the story and effect major choices. And this would be too large a drain on their time and resources, which is what Josh had stated (more or less). Yeah, and by thinking about this im aculaty glad that obsidian is not doing romances, even if im proromancer in rpg. The same reason that im very happy that obsidian is not doing fully 3D game... Becouse they suck at is to be honest. 2 Examples from 1 game Neverwinter Night 2. 1. Elanee worst romance ever 2. Badly desineg graphics, this a level of "optimalisation" that even today it isint working without some weird freezez from time to time, and even skyrim is workim like mad on system Not mentioning that NWN2 had propably most ugly head-sets i've senn in newly desined 3D game, only oblivion had worse ..what's strage even NWN1 heads where ... looking better
NanoPaladin Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Well as my last decently long post was ignored in a prior romance thread (before the announcement) I will try to keep this short. (most likely going to fail) Not adding romances to PoE is not a deal breaker by any means under the rainbow of RPG's, however, with the way a lot of popular RPG's are made it is a 'pillar' to the game type. It is something (no matter how well written) that sets the RPG genre apart from other genres. Shooters are now starting to implement more character progression into their games (IE Bioshock, Borderlands, CoD 2k14 ((thats a joke)) with multiplayer) in the form of levels/gear/magic. I understand that PoE is a new IP and so far has seen a good amount of success in terms of support. We do not know how the story in PoE will end or even turn out so if they want they can easily set the stage for romance choices in the game and then deliver on them in a later expansion pack or sequel. I think that letting a romance form over a multitude of games and expansion packs would be a nice refreshing method to the genre. I do not think that what the dev's said should be utilized as an excuse to not do something but utilize it as a chance to grow and develop skills. After all the game industry is always evolving and growing just like the technology industry. You have to set your game apart from other RPG's out there. I know that PoE is going to be a "small" game comparably to other titles but lets take a small look at what you are competing with this year; Dragon Age Inquisition and The Witcher 3. Both of these titles are huge for the genre and I am certain that both will be fairly great games. We are more or less guaranteed that one of the two will have romance involved. That does not mean it will be good romances though. At any rate as I said its not a deal breaker by any means but it can be a great device to utilize sales for sequels and expansion packs *wink wink*. (Not to sound greedy) Onto my next point.. I am a bit disheartened by the responses to this topic. I come in and look at the thread and all I see is a circus. Anti-Romancers are running around posting memes and rubbing it everyones faces as such a wonderful thing that it will not be included. I was hoping that the community here would be a bit more mature on these sorts of topics. As far as I can tell every forum for a game with romances confirmed we don't see promancers running around rubbing it in Antimancers faces. Sure they will swamp the forums with repeated topics but that can be a by-product of any aspect in a game. Like classes and combat systems or any other controversial topics. TL;DR Anti-mancers - Stop being trolls about it Promancers - Sorry, maybe next time. Obsidian - Look at my first paragraph.... seriously..... decent idea tucked away in there.... Sometimes you have to risk it to get the biscuit... Edited February 12, 2014 by NanoPaladin 8
Ulquiorra Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Well as my last decently long post was ignored in a prior romance thread (before the announcement) I will try to keep this short. (most likely going to fail) Not adding romances to PoE is not a deal breaker by any means under the rainbow of RPG's, however, with the way a lot of popular RPG's are made it is a 'pillar' to the game type. It is something (no matter how well written) that sets the RPG genre apart from other genres. Shooters are now starting to implement more character progression into their games (IE Bioshock, Borderlands, CoD 2k14 ((thats a joke)) with multiplayer) in the form of levels/gear/magic. I understand that PoE is a new IP and so far has seen a good amount of success in terms of support. We do not know how the story in PoE will end or even turn out so if they want they can easily set the stage for romance choices in the game and then deliver on them in a later expansion pack or sequel. I think that letting a romance form over a multitude of games and expansion packs would be a nice refreshing method to the genre. I do not think that what the dev's said should be utilized as an excuse to not do something but utilize it as a chance to grow and develop skills. After all the game industry is always evolving and growing just like the technology industry. You have to set your game apart from other RPG's out there. I know that PoE is going to be a "small" game comparably to other titles but lets take a small look at what you are competing with this year; Dragon Age Inquisition and The Witcher 3. Both of these titles are huge for the genre and I am certain that both will be fairly great games. We are more or less guaranteed that one of the two will have romance involved. That does not mean it will be good romances though. At any rate as I said its not a deal breaker by any means but it can be a great device to utilize sales for sequels and expansion packs *wink wink*. (Not to sound greedy) Onto my next point.. I am a bit disheartened by the responses to this topic. I come in and look at the thread and all I see is a circus. Anti-Romancers are running around posting memes and rubbing it everyones faces as such a wonderful thing that it will not be included. I was hoping that the community here would be a bit more mature on these sorts of topics. As far as I can tell every forum for a game with romances confirmed we don't see promancers running around rubbing it in Antimancers faces. Sure they will swamp the forums with repeated topics but that can be a by-product of any aspect in a game. Like classes and combat systems or any other controversial topics. TL;DR Anti-mancers - Stop being trolls about it Promancers - Sorry, maybe next time. Obsidian - Look at my first paragraph.... seriously..... decent idea tucked away in there.... 2
Karkarov Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Dragon Age: Inquisition is a Bioware Game. Seriously guys I am sorry but Bioware has made some great games. The amount of hate they get lately just makes the internet look stupider than it normally is. Of god the ME3 ending was bad, not that! Actually no, it really wasn't that bad. I am sorry some people didn't like it but I bet more people were mystified it was even an issue than were upset. As for Dragon Age 2 it was still an okay game. Was it great? No. Was it even above average? No. But was it a bad game? Not really. If Dragon Age 2 is the worse game your company has ever made you are not doing bad. Get over it Bioware haters your schtick is old. Please note I am not singling out Monte Carlo here despite the quote. His offenses on this front are few and far between and quite minor compared to many I have seen. I am calling down the whole attitude of Bioware hate the fanboi on this forum have. 10
Hiro Protagonist II Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I want Obsidian to make a quality game and the game they've always wanted to do. if that excludes romances to keep that high level of quality, then I'm all for it. 2
Hassat Hunter Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Offering now... for $2 I will add the following to your PoE after release. The line "1. I love you <fullname>. My love for you is lovelier than the loveliness of love. I want your dong in me so bad." Selecting it will give the line "<fullname> and <charname> have hardcore sex.", then it will go back to the main conversation branch. Get in now for the best romance plot made ever... and only this half year for a discount price! 2 ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Ulquiorra Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Dragon Age: Inquisition is a Bioware Game. Seriously guys I am sorry but Bioware has made some great games. The amount of hate they get lately just makes the internet look stupider than it normally is. Of god the ME3 ending was bad, not that! Actually no, it really wasn't that bad. I am sorry some people didn't like it but I bet more people were mystified it was even an issue than were upset. As for Dragon Age 2 it was still an okay game. Was it great? No. Was it even above average? No. But was it a bad game? Not really. If Dragon Age 2 is the worse game your company has ever made you are not doing bad. Get over it Bioware haters your schtick is old. Please note I am not singling out Monte Carlo here despite the quote. His offenses on this front are few and far between and quite minor compared to many I have seen. I am calling down the whole attitude of Bioware hate the fanboi on this forum have. I agree
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