Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Gorth]

It was a case of in most cases it didn't make sense. Fighting endless assaults by airborne troops and paratroopers dropping out of the sky got old before halfway through the game.

 

DA:O actually had similar mechanics in some places, but much better implemented (disguised).

[Keyrock]

 

 

 

I like fights that use the wave mechanic well enough. But, like Alan said, when 90% of the fights use that single trick it gets annoying and loses it's surprise factor. But used sparingly and where it makes sense, it can make for awesome encounter design.

 

Agreed.  If you're getting attacked by assassins it makes sense that a bunch more will appear out of thin air.  When literally every enemy in the game does that, it's cheap, repetitive, and sucks the fun out of combat.  It's akin to the monster jumps out of the closet trick in many games, most glaringly, Doom 3.  It's cool a couple of times, when it happens for the 200th time it makes me want to put my fist through the monitor.

[licketysplit]

It was a case of in most cases it didn't make sense. Fighting endless assaults by airborne troops and paratroopers dropping out of the sky got old before halfway through the game.

 

DA:O actually had similar mechanics in some places, but much better implemented (disguised).

 

Problem is, it's still predictable waves of enemies which screams 'vidya game!'

 

They need to make things more organic. They should have random encounters.

[Tick]

I for one hope the majority of DA2 characters don't appear. Not due to any aversions to their sexual makeup or epilogues, but because I find most of them incredibly annoying. Most came off as petty, petulant children except for Varric and Aveline. Granted, I would probably be annoying too if I had been enslaved all my life, or persecuted as a mage, etc but do you really have to talk about it all the time with no room for forgiveness or compromise?

 

Not sure if the writing was good and meant to annoy to some degree or if it was bad and they just ended up with unlikable characters.

I didn't play DA2; I'm only speaking generally: A bad past, or bad luck, and the character that experienced it shouldn't come off as whiny and unlikable, unless they're a complicated character where the writer somehow makes it interesting. In my experience, this is always a symptom of bad writing (e.g. Carth in KOTOR, or Connor in Angel). It comes off like crappy middle-school diary - fanfiction bull.

 

A history is meant to add to a character, to explain motivations and how they shaped themselves, or how they ended up where they are, or to make them sympathetic. A writer can make a character persecuted and oppressed due to an aspect of themselves and make it sympathetic, a writer can make a bad event that happens to them sympathetic. Planescape Torment, Fallout: New Vegas, does a good job of this. Every background I have seen in Torment is a giant Kick-the-Dog story, and the characters don't come off as obnoxious for it. Some F:NV characters could be at risk of being obnoxious, but many were done excellently.

 

A history should not detract from someone - one can show anger, regret, etc. without it being petty and stupid. One of the problems is they often show a character complain constantly without showing the horror/event itself, or expressing why it sucks very well. For example, by showing the character in a near-death event, dragged down to subhuman status for being a mage, etc. The other problem is they often use it as a constant excuse for being an ass (again, without establishing - well - why they would be, or where it would make sense), while taking no responsibility for anything. Having a bad burrito does not licence attacking everyone else, and it's obnoxious.

 

If a story can make a player feel bad for a mad, mass-murdering pyro that constantly goes against the wants of said player, it should be able to make a player feel bad for a character that "means well" and has lost family or gotten the shaft in life because they were born with _____.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Tick

[Volourn]

"If a story can make a player feel bad for a mad, mass-murdering pyro"

 

You felt sorry for that loser? I laughed at his patheticness and terminated him pronto. What  disgusting piece of crap. No symapthy whatsoever. One of the worst npcs ever.

[Cultist]

So far DA:I looks like a bastard child of Dark Souls, raped by Skyrim...and it seems like Witcher 2 took part in the fun. I wonder who is the true father?

[GhostofAnakin]

"If a story can make a player feel bad for a mad, mass-murdering pyro"

 

You felt sorry for that loser? I laughed at his patheticness and terminated him pronto. What  disgusting piece of crap. No symapthy whatsoever. One of the worst npcs ever.

 

I think this is the first time I've agreed with something Volourn has said.

 

It almost makes me reconsider whether I should feel sorry for Anders after all.

[Oerwinde]

I really liked Anders in Awakening, and kept hoping his quest line in DA2 would be to help him be free of Justice so he could go back to being likable again. Unfortunately he went beyond salvation and there was no way to keep him alive without me feeling dirty.

[HoonDing]

That combat video threw me off a bit. Is it still a work in progress?

[alanschu]

Those were cross-class combos, differently named than spell combos which involved combining 2 or 3 spells into another one and could only be done with mages on DA:O. Example: Freezing an enemy and using a smash type of attack with a warrior will result in massive damage or death unless the enemy passes a check that's a cross class, using Grease and a Fire type spell (not necessarily from the same person)that resulted in a Grease Fire was a a spell combo. Which meant that with prior knowledge you could build your mages abilites  so that they complimented each other with combos. 

 

 

Yes, I am aware of the spell combos from DAO.

 

I guess I wasn't clear, but I was equating them somewhat, since it shifted from being something only mages could do, to something all classes could do as a type of synergy, since the spell combos existed in DAO but the cross class skills existed in DA2.

 

The closest thing to a cross class is the shatter effect, which can occur on a critical hit.  And I also realize that the spells didn't need to come from the same spell caster....

[alanschu]

I really liked Anders in Awakening, and kept hoping his quest line in DA2 would be to help him be free of Justice so he could go back to being likable again. Unfortunately he went beyond salvation and there was no way to keep him alive without me feeling dirty.

 

 

I believe the rivalry path does free Anders from Justice.

 

 

 

 

That combat video threw me off a bit. Is it still a work in progress?

 

Yes.

Edited August 19, 2013 by alanschu

[Maria Caliban]

If a story can make a player feel bad for a mad, mass-murdering pyro that constantly goes against the wants of said player, it should be able to make a player feel bad for a character that "means well" and has lost family or gotten the shaft in life because they were born with _____.

If we're talking about Ignus, I can't say I felt bad for him. I went through his backstory for the XP and spells, and found it interesting.

 

I'd struggle to think of BioWare or Obsidian characters I 'felt bad' for though. Viconia and Leliana? I felt bad when that one sorceress from the Witcher 2 got her eyes gouged out. The PC in BioShock 2.

[Keyrock]

 

If a story can make a player feel bad for a mad, mass-murdering pyro that constantly goes against the wants of said player, it should be able to make a player feel bad for a character that "means well" and has lost family or gotten the shaft in life because they were born with _____.

If we're talking about Ignus, I can't say I felt bad for him. I went through his backstory for the XP and spells, and found it interesting.

 

I'd struggle to think of BioWare or Obsidian characters I 'felt bad' for though. Viconia and Leliana? I felt bad when that one sorceress from the Witcher 2 got her eyes gouged out. The PC in BioShock 2.

 

You felt bad for Philippa Eilhart?  ***** got what was coming to her.

[Maria Caliban]

When someone suggests a woman being mutilated is okay because she's a bitch, c***, or whore, my initial reaction is that their opinion of the character is strongly influenced by their misogyny. Likewise, if you stated you Anders was a f** that got what was coming to him, I'd probably assume you were homophobic despite the fact that finally getting to kill Anders was a high point of DA 2 for me.

 

This isn't to say Philippa's not a bitch. She'd likely agree with the assessment.

 

Philippa was one of my favorite characters; I found her far more compelling than Triss or Saskia. Hanselt also appealed to me though I ended up letting Roche shiv him.

 

The Witcher is the sort of setting where I'm apt to find ambitious amoral or villainous characters more compelling than many of the 'good guys.'

Edited August 19, 2013 by Maria Caliban

[Sarex]

If we're talking about Ignus, I can't say I felt bad for him. I went through his backstory for the XP and spells, and found it interesting.

I'd struggle to think of BioWare or Obsidian characters I 'felt bad' for though. Viconia and Leliana? I felt bad when that one sorceress from the Witcher 2 got her eyes gouged out. The PC in BioShock 2.

 

You didn't feel bad for Moridin and Legion in ME3. You heartless bastard. XD

[Nonek]

When someone suggests a woman being mutilated is okay because she's a bitch, c***, or whore, my initial reaction is that their opinion of the character is strongly influenced by their misogyny. Likewise, if you stated you Anders was a f** that got what was coming to him, I'd probably assume you were homophobic despite the fact that finally getting to kill Anders was a high point of DA 2 for me.

 

This isn't to say Philippa's not a bitch. She'd likely agree with the assessment.

 

Philippa was one of my favorite characters; I found her far more compelling than Triss or Saskia. Hanselt also appealed to me though I ended up letting Roche shiv him.

 

The Witcher is the sort of setting where I'm apt to find ambitious amoral or villainous characters more compelling than many of the 'good guys.'

 

Philippa did kill Radovid's father, humiliate his mother, usurp the power of the Redanian monarchy and try to kill the one man who found out about all this (old Djikstra.) To my mind Radovid's restraint and commitment to a lawful trial and then a lawful burning were quite admirable. That said yes, she is a fine example of a powerful and clever individual, whose plans for taking over Aedirn are quite noble, even if the means used are vile.

 

Edit: I was a little less shocked I admit because I know that Sorceress' can regrow their eyes over time, as happened in the books. That and I expect that such a magnificent character will return in some manner, though I believe Borch Three Jackdaws might want a word with her.

 

I would say that my Nameless One was consumed with regret over Ignus' upbringing and abuse, also felt pity for Boone, Dog/God and any number of others, and surprisingly enough Jayne Kassynder. I sound like a big softy don't I?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Nonek

[Keyrock]

When someone suggests a woman being mutilated is okay because she's a bitch, c***, or whore, my initial reaction is that their opinion of the character is strongly influenced by their misogyny. Likewise, if you stated you Anders was a f** that got what was coming to him, I'd probably assume you were homophobic despite the fact that finally getting to kill Anders was a high point of DA 2 for me.

 

This isn't to say Philippa's not a bitch. She'd likely agree with the assessment.

 

Philippa was one of my favorite characters; I found her far more compelling than Triss or Saskia. Hanselt also appealed to me though I ended up letting Roche shiv him.

 

The Witcher is the sort of setting where I find ambitious amoral or villainous more compelling than many of the 'good guys.'

I don't have to be misogynistic to hate someone who used my trust to commit treason then left me to clean up the mess.  I'll give Philippa this, she's one of the most interesting and resourceful characters in the game, that doesn't change the fact that she got what was coming to her, I just wish I had the chance to kill her, because I imagine she'll be making some serious trouble for me in TW3.

 

Back on topic, I didn't like Anders in any of the games.  Honestly, the only character in DA that I truly liked was Wynne.  Obviously there is no chance of her appearing in DA:I.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Keyrock

[NOK222]

 

 

 Likewise, if you stated you Anders was a f** that got what was coming to him, I'd probably assume you were homophobic despite the fact that finally getting to kill Anders was a high point of DA 2 for me.

And you don't find yourself a bit judgmental there o' mighty social justice warrior? a bit hypocritical on your part don't you think?  I'm not even going to tell you what's wrong with that statement. 

 

Anders is an abomination, he consorts with demons (sort of demon) and blew up innocent people. I don't dislike him, but I can see why people do. I guarantee you most of those people that do isn't because they got rivalry points after they rejected him. 

 

Changing topics, I really don't want to see Gaider's self insert character Cole. 

Edited August 19, 2013 by NKKKK

[Spider]

NKKK don't you see the difference in what you're saying and what Maria is? You're telling us why you dislike Anders  (or rather why others would) based on his actions.

 

Maria's gut reaction comes from someone saying "Anders was a [homosexual slur] that got what was coming to him": The difference is fairly huge.

[Malcador]

Can't even use nasty words against people you don't like these days.

[Elerond]

There is difference to say that Anders deserved to die because he is queer or to say that Anders deserved to die because he consorted with demons and had demonic spirit inside him.

 

As it tells other about your motivations and world view that can make you look even more deserving to die or to be punished as Anders in their eyes.

[Malcador]

True enough, but calling Philippa a bad word and saying she deserved her treatment isn't really anything sinister.

[Malekith]

When someone suggests a woman being mutilated is okay because she's a bitch, c***, or whore, my initial reaction is that their opinion of the character is strongly influenced by their misogyny. Likewise, if you stated you Anders was a f** that got what was coming to him, I'd probably assume you were homophobic despite the fact that finally getting to kill Anders was a high point of DA 2 for me.

 

Sorry but that is Gaider level BS. The posibility of someone just hating the character is too far fetched?

Case in point Fenris. I gloated when i gave him to the slaver, and as far as i know he is not a gay option. (I hated Anders and Philippa too without their sexuality playing a role)

Philippa was a terrific and interesting character, and they nailed her from the books. But i was glad she was mutilated.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Malekith

[BruceVC]

Can't even use nasty words against people you don't like these days.

 

Not if those words are offensive or based around bigotry, you are learning Malc. We will make a liberal of you yet

[Tale]

The posibility of someone just hating the character is too far fetched?

The point is that when you express your hate with a slur against homosexuals, it seems like the hate is about the homosexuality.