Idea "Jobs" and some "Economy" as a part of roleplaying.

[Ulquiorra]

Hi

 

It was a long time since i been here, acording to new update there will be some nice crafting system. So for example if we create a magic sword in normal D&D games if we sold it whe have only 1/2 his total price. But thats not the worst, i somethimes think "beside world saveing" is my character realy ably to think for his own, for example a normal character beside being only hope for humanity he whoud like to ave some gold and some place in the world.

 

I think that idea of small economy i wery good thing bt what is this "small" ecenomy i mean incomes and out comes, are party need money, need food, need some influnecne (gained by money) in the world.

 

I played two games in with i realy like those things, it was fable 2 (jobs, and owning) and eroge kamidori (shop menagement). For example we can buy a shop and create some weapons and our clerk (not sed party member or hired one) will sell it when we are exploring dungeons.

 

Secondly and idea of part time jobs like woodcutting gives some "life" into world, for course this tpe of jobs still requerie some animations but it also coud be done NWN type of style when you don't see animation and only tekst "a 5 pieces of wood was cut" etc.

 

what are your opininion ?

Edited July 9, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[rjshae]

In a sense, adventuring is your job. But I wouldn't mind seeing a CRPG implement a more plausible careers system like they have in Warhammer FRP.

[Ulquiorra]

In a sense, adventuring is your job. But I wouldn't mind seeing a CRPG implement a more plausible careers system like they have in Warhammer FRP.

 

Yeah but this whoud be odd to loot hundreds of artifacts a still can't play as wondering merchant that sells them in normal prices.

[Sacred_Path]

much like romance, "jobs" actually take me out of any epicness that may have been present in a game. It's immersion breaking in that characters seem to have some premonition that they will survive all adventuring to become some kind of respected member of society. "Oh, I'm going to go up against the greatest evil in the world with only my rusty dagger, but I better set up shop first in this little town to finance my retirement".

 

What I prefer is i.e. crafting, mostly of basic items, for sale to supplement your adventuring funds. A ranger may collect wood and craft arrows for sale if he's fallen on hard times, rather than taking up an actual job as a woodcutter.

Unless he's a lumberjack and he's ok.

[Pshaw]

I really like little job mini-games in some games. In others it's just a boring feature added for the sake of having more features or a way to grab extra cash. So while I do like jobs I feel like they probably won't be a good fit in PE and should probably be left out. The last thing I'd want is Fable like wood chopping and real estate management.

[mcmanusaur]

This may come as a surprise to some people who are familiar with my preferences, but I'm slightly ambivalent towards "jobs" (in terms of repetitive employment routines), and I don't really enjoy skill-based "mini-games" of any sort (I'm assuming this is what OP means). That said, I do like the idea of having multiple avenues for making money, and I do appreciate a good bit of strategy/management (almost to the point of being a mini-game), but I'm somewhat more interested in ways to spend money than to acquire it.

[AGX-17]

Hi

 

It was a long time since i been here, acording to new update there will be some nice crafting system. So for example if we create a magic sword in normal D&D games if we sold it whe have only 1/2 his total price. But thats not the worst, i somethimes think "beside world saveing" is my character realy ably to think for his own, for example a normal character beside being only hope for humanity he whoud like to ave some gold and some place in the world.

 

I think that idea of small economy i wery good thing bt what is this "small" ecenomy i mean incomes and out comes, are party need money, need food, need some influnecne (gained by money) in the world.

 

I played two games in with i realy like those things, it was fable 2 (jobs, and owning) and eroge kamidori (shop menagement). For example we can buy a shop and create some weapons and our clerk (not sed party member or hired one) will sell it when we are exploring dungeons.

 

Secondly and idea of part time jobs like woodcutting gives some "life" into world, for course this tpe of jobs still requerie some animations but it also coud be done NWN type of style when you don't see animation and only tekst "a 5 pieces of wood was cut" etc.

 

what are your opininion ?

"outcomes"? Considering you're using it in conjunction with "income," are you using it (incorrectly, obviously,) to refer to expenditures? How is that any different from RPGs as it is? You craft, find, steal items and sell them, that generates income. You use that income to purchase things, expenditures.

 

Basically you're asking for a game like Recettear to be recreated in P:E and Skyrim elements, i.e. chopping wood, selling chopped wood for paltry sums. And if you think a woodcutter makes anything but paltry pay you're sorely mistaken. The "job" of going out and killing people and animals and monsters and demons and such is inevitably more profitable than doing peasant labor. And buying low/selling high is an ideal anyone strives for in any RPG, they don't need to make special systems revolving around an idea you got from a Japanese porn game.

Edited July 9, 2013 by AGX-17

[jamoecw]

well given that you get a stronghold, i think that running that could be your 'job' you know outfitting, recruiting, and training troops for that big final battle or siege or some such.  dealing with fellow nobles, saving villages, stuff like that would be quest like, but i don't see you chopping wood or fishing and such for your stronghold.  aside from stronghold management i don't think jobs should play an important part.

[JFSOCC]

I've always  dreamed of Empire. I think it would be incredibly cool to work for a faction (or start your own) rise in the ranks, take it over, and then have a steady source of income through that faction.

 

In Baldurs Gate II you could get this from the thieves guild, or have your own castle and lands, a theather which ran a show...

 

That's the kind of thing I hope to see here as well.

 

I also hope more factions competing with eachother, for instance, perhaps A trade guild is interested in buying a warehouse at the dock, but so is the thieves guild for their smuggling operation. The Holy Church of Hezeng wants to build their house of worship there. Not every faction can get the spot to expand on.

 

Especially fun if you've joined a few factions and now have to choose which of the factions you support will get that spot.

[mstark]

In Baldurs Gate II you could get this from the thieves guild, or have your own castle and lands, a theather which ran a show...

 

That's the kind of thing I hope to see here as well.

I'm also hoping to see this in Project Eternity, it was one of the best parts of BG2, and one that added real replayability value. I'm afraid all of these will essentially be replaced by the Stronghold, which (I assume) will be attainable by anyone and isn't class specific.

 

Unlocking the Bard Stronghold (the Theater quest line) is probably the only reason I'd ever consider playing a bard in BG2

Edited July 10, 2013 by mstark

[Ulquiorra]

 

Hi

 

It was a long time since i been here, acording to new update there will be some nice crafting system. So for example if we create a magic sword in normal D&D games if we sold it whe have only 1/2 his total price. But thats not the worst, i somethimes think "beside world saveing" is my character realy ably to think for his own, for example a normal character beside being only hope for humanity he whoud like to ave some gold and some place in the world.

 

I think that idea of small economy i wery good thing bt what is this "small" ecenomy i mean incomes and out comes, are party need money, need food, need some influnecne (gained by money) in the world.

 

I played two games in with i realy like those things, it was fable 2 (jobs, and owning) and eroge kamidori (shop menagement). For example we can buy a shop and create some weapons and our clerk (not sed party member or hired one) will sell it when we are exploring dungeons.

 

Secondly and idea of part time jobs like woodcutting gives some "life" into world, for course this tpe of jobs still requerie some animations but it also coud be done NWN type of style when you don't see animation and only tekst "a 5 pieces of wood was cut" etc.

 

what are your opininion ?

"outcomes"? Considering you're using it in conjunction with "income," are you using it (incorrectly, obviously,) to refer to expenditures? How is that any different from RPGs as it is? You craft, find, steal items and sell them, that generates income. You use that income to purchase things, expenditures.

 

Basically you're asking for a game like Recettear to be recreated in P:E and Skyrim elements, i.e. chopping wood, selling chopped wood for paltry sums. And if you think a woodcutter makes anything but paltry pay you're sorely mistaken. The "job" of going out and killing people and animals and monsters and demons and such is inevitably more profitable than doing peasant labor. And buying low/selling high is an ideal anyone strives for in any RPG, they don't need to make special systems revolving around an idea you got from a Japanese porn game.

 

 

And wat about eating, sleeping, and other outcomes that normal people have ? Yeah choping monsters sound fun, but i want PE be more "live" game with normal persons, not clone of Diablo 3 in more icewind daleish setting.

 

Choping wood in Skyrim was not made to good in general. Im thinking more about other incomes and outcomes like companions must eat, sleep and mayby buy something to them self instead of buying 40 kilos of apples like in Mount and blade setting, you coud have secial raport about their cost during the day.

 

Secondly i will understand you argument about "jap porn game" if i wanted sex scenes in PE, but im talking about economycal not pornish part of that game ...

 

besides im thinking even about this type o mechanics, for example, you loot or craft lonsword + 1. If you whoud like to buy that you must spend 1500 gold but if you want to sell it to a merchant you take only 500 gold.

 

instead of makeing to easy to sell this item in his proper price, you coud take it to your shop and wait, after 3-4 day sword shoud be selled and you gain 1500 gold insted of 500 but yo must wait some time ....

 

Bach... even if you don't have a "shop" but yo are (beside of adventcherer" a traveling merchan you take that longsword to your "shop" window and wait till a customer buys it ....

 

In skyrim was choping wood and farming but this simply does not belong there, but if you ever played Gothic 2, you also coud encounter a part time job quest at the begining to make some gold with you coud spend on buying an armor/clothes with coud provide you possibility to pass thru town guards ...

 

i think that this idea is god, and i hope that everybody that wants from this game to be more then copy of diablo 3 with not so god graphics see that to ....

Edited July 10, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Sheikh]

I think people band together in a party because they go on advantures to earn money. Or just do odd jobs of this or that kind if they arent going to disband, that require varying skillsets as well as ample time, perfect for a party of wanderers. I think that ought to be the main premise for the PC and I hope there isnt going to be too much deviation from that.

[Jarmo]

From what I've gathered PE is going to be plot heavy, combat heavy game where you'll be driven to do stuff.

I just can't see how being a bartender or running a shop could fit in without being a total distraction.

 

If I'm wrong and PE is going to involve lots of free time with little to do and pressing concern for enough money to get by,

then yeah. Why not get a steady income from one source or another.

 

Stronghold is another thing entirely though. I really enjoyed running the one in NWN2, never mind how limited the running actually was.

If we're given a place to run, it'd make sense to try and run it effectively and why not make a profit while at it.

[Ulquiorra]

From what I've gathered PE is going to be plot heavy, combat heavy game where you'll be driven to do stuff.

I just can't see how being a bartender or running a shop could fit in without being a total distraction.

 

If I'm wrong and PE is going to involve lots of free time with little to do and pressing concern for enough money to get by,

then yeah. Why not get a steady income from one source or another.

 

Stronghold is another thing entirely though. I really enjoyed running the one in NWN2, never mind how limited the running actually was.

If we're given a place to run, it'd make sense to try and run it effectively and why not make a profit while at it.

 

You see, having a game that is "heavy" in plot doesn't mean that you wont have some time, if yo weren't they will not add crafting and enchanting with can be time killer f someone is intu it.

 

Shoping was always a bif thing in d&d games. Why not put in level higher ? Insted of 1500 for buying longsword and selling for 500 mechanics, why not small economy ? Where if you can wait and be patient you can ern 1500 for it ?

 

Secondly Stronghold is another thing why this is good, every noble or "stronghold" owner must have profits, and for me "item +1" looting system mechanics is stuid and imerstion breaker becouse you simly feel that desiners put this item for you there for you to loot it and sell it to "keep" running you stronghold .....

 

If yo have no magical item spawning in the end of NWN2 and still mostly encounter normal items you whoud propably bulid only 2/3 power ps to your stronghold.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Frenetic Pony]

Leave "jobs" to things like Ultima and Fable type games. They're designed around those things being in there. PE and the Infinity Engine games are designed around tactical combat to bash open enemies for their loot in the middle of dungeons. Everything from the camera to the controls to the presentation works towards that, and I'd much rather do that than a "job" in PE.

[Ulquiorra]

Leave "jobs" to things like Ultima and Fable type games. They're designed around those things being in there. PE and the Infinity Engine games are designed around tactical combat to bash open enemies for their loot in the middle of dungeons. Everything from the camera to the controls to the presentation works towards that, and I'd much rather do that than a "job" in PE.

 

So dungeon looting is better then living and more "Beliveble" world ?

Edited July 10, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[mcmanusaur]

Everything from the camera to the controls to the presentation works towards [tactical combat to bash open enemies for their loot in the middle of dungeons].

 

I'm not going to say I disagree with this, but I would be curious of examples demonstrating that this is the case.

[Tuckey]

@Ulquiorra and @mcmanusaur

 

What I believe Frenetic Pony is saying is that there is an opportunity cost to these job features. IE like games were primarily based around their dungeon crawling mechanics; adding job features and the like in a believable and interesting way means less focus on other primary features. We are talking about a game with 4 millionish budget not including kickstarter fees, backer rewards etc. It is not possible for this game to do all things that we want, better to have it focused on the things that we all really do want.

 

In terms of examples; take the ui which makes things much easier for combat and dungeon exploring ie weapon/spell selection buttons; pick lock and trap finding etc.

 

Nowhere in that interface is a button allowing jobs to be haggled over or bribes to be offered etc

[Tuckey]

Personally I would like to see npc schedules in these sort of activities more than I want players to participate directly in them. After all presumably the reason why adventurers adventure is to get away from the mundane.

[mcmanusaur]

@Ulquiorra and @mcmanusaur

 

What I believe Frenetic Pony is saying is that there is an opportunity cost to these job features. IE like games were primarily based around their dungeon crawling mechanics; adding job features and the like in a believable and interesting way means less focus on other primary features. We are talking about a game with 4 millionish budget not including kickstarter fees, backer rewards etc. It is not possible for this game to do all things that we want, better to have it focused on the things that we all really do want.

 

In terms of examples; take the ui which makes things much easier for combat and dungeon exploring ie weapon/spell selection buttons; pick lock and trap finding etc.

 

Nowhere in that interface is a button allowing jobs to be haggled over or bribes to be offered etc

 

I don't dispute that but I'm still curious about the evidence for the claims that combat is the integral part of an IE game. Sure, combat features prominently in most of the games (mostly due to the fact that other mechanics aren't well developed), but saying that the presentation and controls and everything else are tailored to tactical combat is another matter entirely.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Life's full of hard work as it is, so I voted no straight through. I'm not even a fan of the stronghold. I next to never play occupations in games in this way. I don't play financial game simulations either. Having said that, I have a great respect for people enjoying these kinds of system, and I hope that some of them may be present in PE.

Edited July 11, 2013 by IndiraLightfoot

[JFSOCC]

@Ulquiorra and @mcmanusaur

 

What I believe Frenetic Pony is saying is that there is an opportunity cost to these job features. IE like games were primarily based around their dungeon crawling mechanics; adding job features and the like in a believable and interesting way means less focus on other primary features. We are talking about a game with 4 millionish budget not including kickstarter fees, backer rewards etc. It is not possible for this game to do all things that we want, better to have it focused on the things that we all really do want.

 

In terms of examples; take the ui which makes things much easier for combat and dungeon exploring ie weapon/spell selection buttons; pick lock and trap finding etc.

 

Nowhere in that interface is a button allowing jobs to be haggled over or bribes to be offered etc

not a big fan of dungeon crawling tbh, leave that to the 15 levels of the mega-dungeon, and let me get on with the actual role-playing part.

[Tuckey]

@JFSOCC  Dungeon crawling in IE games has role-playing elements as well; they're not mutually exclusive.

[JFSOCC]

I won't say you're wrong, but I have trouble seeing it.

[Ulquiorra]

@JFSOCC  Dungeon crawling in IE games has role-playing elements as well; they're not mutually exclusive.

 

If you se dungeon as fantasy supermarket then mayby your right