What are you playing now?

[Labadal]

Playing Blue Dragon on Xbox 360 and Skulls of the Shogun on XBLA.

[Keyrock]

I'm borderline hate-playing Tomb Raider at this point.  My god, Lara must have killed 300 people by now, it's just an almost endless stream of violence.  The combat is decent enough and I'll give the game points for having fairly good enemy AI, but there are already a million other murder simulators out there on the market, some of them much better than this.  And make no mistake, that's what Tomb Raider is, a murder simulator.  By trying to appeal to a broader audience, the game has lost its niche.  As a Tomb Raider game it's garbage.  I'd borderline recommend Angel of Darkness over this for someone looking for a Tomb Raider experience.  As a murder simulator, it's solid, but there are many better choices on the market.  And QTEs...  I was never a fan of them before, but I was more tolerant of them than the majority.  At this point, I find QTEs almost as disgusting as snuff porn.  I'm looking forward to finishing the game so I can wipe it off my hard drive and never touch it again.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Lara Croft is finished, the series is dead.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Keyrock

[Drowsy Emperor]

All I can say brother:

 

Better you than me

Edited July 17, 2013 by Drowsy Emperor

[Keyrock]

All I can say brother:

 

Better you than me

Yeah, it's not an enviable position.  I almost wish the game was complete garbage so that I could just wipe it off my hard drive now and be done with it, but it does have redeeming qualities and the story, acting, and production values are good enough that I'm invested enough to want to see it through to the end.  But there is just so much ****ing combat, and when I do get a reprieve from combat and actually get to do some platforming it's so childishly easy that it's practically a slap in the face.  The worst is stumbling into an optional tomb.  This should be a moment of happiness for me, but it's actually quite the opposite.  First, how ****ing sad is it that TOMBS are optional in TOMB ****ing RAIDER, not to mention very few and far between.  Second these tombs always consist of one puzzle so easy it's pathetic and about 3 jumps worth of platforming.  Basically it takes about a minute to complete these optional tombs.  What I wouldn't give for Tommy Lee Jones or Will Smith to zap me with the memory eraser thingy and wipe this whole experience from my mind.

 

Yes, I did just use a M.I.B. reference. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Keyrock

[Amentep]

I dunno, I can't say I agree with your experience.  I liked Tomb Raider a lot and the only Tomb Raider I can say I liked before that was the original one.

 

Weirdly I feel the complaint of too much combat could be leveled at most of the series (it was the London level and the heavy focus on combat in II and III that turned me off the series).  And for me I felt that while there weren't a lot of specific Tombs to raid on the island the exploration and finding artifacts and the history of the island and inhabitants was just as interesting.

 

I'm not sure how they can turn this game into a template for the series, but I thought it did well for what it set out to do (which is mainly to re-establish Lara Croft in a good modern game).

[melkathi]

You should have read the fine print:

 

Tomb Raider¹

 

 

1 product may not include tombs, raiders, raiding or any combination thereof. If included, any interaction with tombs, be it in the form of raiding or other and/or in the capacity as a raider or other, will be purely optional and at the discretion of the player. Square Enix, Eidos, their affiliates and employees are not responsible for the inclusion in and/or exclusion of tombs, raiders and raiding in regards to the content of the franchise Tomb Raider.

Tomb Raider © Square Enix Ltd. 2012

[Keyrock]

Weirdly I feel the complaint of too much combat could be leveled at most of the series (it was the London level and the heavy focus on combat in II and III that turned me off the series).  

Agreed.  I'm of the mind that every Tomb Raider game has too much combat, this one just takes it to an extreme.  

 

The lore of the artifacts is cool, it would be nice if they weren't so ridiculously easy to find.  Oh and just in case you can't find them on your own (don't worry you'll most likely run smack dab into them by accident anyway), they're pointed out to you on your map.  Heaven forbid you actually have to search for these artifacts.

 

What I liked about Tomb Raider games in the past was clever puzzles and challenging platforming.  This game is completely devoid of both of those things.  The platforming is ridiculously easy and puzzles, what there's maybe 3 or 4 of them in the entire game, are so simple that it;s an insult.

 

The game has a good story and great acting.  It's also a solid murder simulator.  I didn't want to play a murder simulator.  I wanted to, you know, raid some tombs.  I know, I must be completely out of my mind to expect to be raiding tombs in a game called Tomb Raider.  Silly me. 

 

Edit @melkathi - LOL, my bad.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Keyrock

[Amentep]

I thought the locations only showed up as rewards for collecting tomb treasure and/or geocaches (otherwise they only showed up if you "spotted them")?

 

That said while I'm not sure that I want to see a return to some of the really painful timed jumps of the earlier series, I think some harder puzzles - particularly for "optional" tombs should be a must.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Amentep

[Keyrock]

I thought the locations only showed up as rewards for collecting tomb treasure and/or geocaches (otherwise they only showed up if you "spotted them")?

 

That said while I'm not sure that I want to see a return to some of the really painful timed jumps of the earlier series, I think some harder puzzles - particularly for "optional" tombs should be a must.

You may be right about locations showing up.  I'm not sure, I try to stay away from the map.  Also, I never use "survival instincts" or whatever the cheat/hint function is called, because, holy ****, stuff is so ridiculously easy to figure out as it is.  

 

At the very least, they could have include some devilishly difficult platforming for the optional tombs, oh and make them a bit longer than 3 jumps worth of platforming.  I mean, throw me at least SOME challenge in platforming and puzzle solving.  The only "challenge" in the game is when you have to murder 15 or 20 people at the same time, instead of just 7 or 8.

[HoonDing]

I'd borderline recommend Angel of Darkness over this for someone looking for a Tomb Raider experience.

Angel of Darkness actually has some brilliant Paris levels.

 

It turns bad in Prague when that stupid sidekick shows up.

 

The game flopped because it was unplayable at launch, and had even more clunky controls than the previous Tomb Raiders. Still, I rate it higher than any of the Crystal Dynamics vehicles (Anniversary doesn't count since it's a remake).

[alanschu]

Haha, I enjoyed the new Tomb Raider.  It actually kinda pokes fun at itself for being a murder simulator, and actually helps convey some level of progression for Lara's character as well.  Though granted, they didn't need to have as MUCH of it to still do that.

 

As for the platforming aspects, well I only played Tomb Raider 2 (which I still felt had a lot of combat), and I can only say thank friggin' god that the game was not excessively punitive because my precise angle on jumping to grab onto that ledge wasn't precision perfect.  In situations like that, which frequently came up in Tomb Raider 2 (a game I eventually gave up on due to frustration of fighting the controls), I don't want to be punished because of not having excessive attention to precision rather than my general decision making process.  With the new game, I found myself spending much less time going "It looks like I can grab onto that ledge, but I'm not sure" because with Tomb Raider 2, I spent a lot of time dying for two reasons:

 

1) I often wasn't putting Lara in precisely the right position in order to successfully grab onto something or something similar

2) Due to #1, I spent a lot of extra time dying because something looked like I could grab onto it, but I wasn't sure if I just couldn't grab onto something, or if I was executing the attempt poorly.

 

 

I would have loved to have seen more actual tomb raiding stuff, and while I enjoyed the puzzles of the Tombs that were there, it was a bit too short and more of that would be fun.  I still very much enjoyed this game though, and aside from the beginning didn't find it too excessive for QTE (or maybe I just don't mind QTE in general).  It's the first game of its nature where I actually felt somewhat motivated to actually do a 100% playthrough (found every secret) which was also a lot of fun.

Edited July 17, 2013 by alanschu

[Keyrock]

To each their own.  I didn't think Tomb Raider was a bad game (outside of their overuse of QTEs), it's just not what I consider a Tomb Raider game.  I actually enjoyed the brutally difficult jumps having to hit precise angles and have split second timing of previous games.  I enjoyed that challenge and didn't mind dying a bunch of times while figuring things out.  I liked the aspect of "Hmm, can I make that jump?  Is it too far?  Can I make that angle?  How the heck am I going to get over there?"  To me, that was what Tomb Raider was all about.

[Raithe]

I think the major issue with Tomb Raider, is that it's setup. It isn't about Tomb Raiding (apart from the basic premise of they were an archaeological expedition), it's about how Lara goes from being the sort of innocent student to being a confident, capable survivor who knows she is perfectly capable of killing people who are trying to kill her.

 

It's a set up for future Tomb Raiders that might actually be about Tomb Raiding. Hell, they end it with that whole Lara pondering on a place to look for doesn't it?

[Keyrock]

I think the major issue with Tomb Raider, is that it's setup. It isn't about Tomb Raiding (apart from the basic premise of they were an archaeological expedition), it's about how Lara goes from being the sort of innocent student to being a confident, capable survivor who knows she is perfectly capable of killing people who are trying to kill her.

 

It's a set up for future Tomb Raiders that might actually be about Tomb Raiding. Hell, they end it with that whole Lara pondering on a place to look for doesn't it?

Fair.  I still think they could have achieved that goal without having Lara go on a killing spree that would make John Rambo cringe.  She could have become a confident survivor by murdering 5 or 10 or 15 or even 20 people.  She didn't have to murder a town's population worth of people.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Keyrock

[HoonDing]

Rather than ripping off Uncharted, it would have been better to rip off the Assassin's Creed 2+ games. Those games have some pretty good platforming and puzzle solving across various historical sites. And combat was mostly stealth based rather than gung-ho action.

 

The older Tomb Raider games were kind of nonsensical in this regard, e.g. fighting Roman zombies in the Colosseum.

[alanschu]

 

 

I actually enjoyed the brutally difficult jumps having to hit precise angles and have split second timing of previous games.  I enjoyed that challenge and didn't mind dying a bunch of times while figuring things out.  I liked the aspect of "Hmm, can I make that jump?  Is it too far?  Can I make that angle?  How the heck am I going to get over there?"  To me, that was what Tomb Raider was all about.

 

I have less issue with split second timing.  It's when split second timing comes with "Well I see what you were trying to do, but because we have a rigid rule system, despite the fact that you've figured things out, we're failing you due to fighting the controls."

 

I don't mind dying figuring things out.  I dislike dying because the game controls lead to me going "Is this even possible or am I just not perfectly aligned?"  I like a reasonable assurance that, if I tried jumping up towards that cliff, and it's pretty clear that I would have grabbed on if it was possible, I keep my death count at one.

 

A common one was with the various "zip lines" as well, as well as jumping to land on a railing for balance.  I make the decision of "I want to jump there" I don't want repeated failures because "You were close, but noooot quite close enough."  The fun for me I guess is coming up with the strategy and tactics, and not coming away with the feeling that my strategy/tactics are now uncertain because the controls are so rigidly defined that I struggle to know "Is my plan even possible?" 

 

 

I feel like I'm rambling and not really conveying my point all that well.... I guess in the new Tomb Raider, I'll see something that looks like a zipline... attempt a jump and be more confident in knowing if the game designers have intended for it to be a zipline after one attempt, rather than Tomb Raider 2 often making me feel like I needed several attempts.

[GhostofAnakin]

With the absolutely glowing reviews of Tomb Raider in this thread, I guess that's next on my play list. 

[Keyrock]

As long as they're doing prequels and giving Lara backstory, the next game should be about her trying to overcome the PTSD from all the horrors she had to endure and commit in this game.

[Tale]

I'm mostly going for trading cards right now. I hit Scribblenauts Unlimited until I got all my drops. Then I idled some System Shock 2 and Skyrim.

 

Going to play The Walking Dead DLC today.

[Raithe]

The other side of Tomb Raider I liked was a few almost tongue-in-cheek references to what she's had to do in the name of survival and the sheer amount of killing she's done by the end of the game.

They handled the shock of the first "kill" fairly nicely, but then glossed over and she was all fairly happy (so to speak), so that did feel a bit of a letdown. But to have a couple of comments from Lara and others around her turn up felt more humerous "poke fun at video game killing" almost rather then serious emotive aspects of what she was going through.

 

Still, they made me smile at the time.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Raithe

[alanschu]

As long as they're doing prequels and giving Lara backstory, the next game should be about her trying to overcome the PTSD from all the horrors she had to endure and commit in this game.

 

Eh, given that she actually states that she's rather surprised at how easy all the killing has been, I think it's safe to say that she's just sociopathic and will have no issues

[Keyrock]

 

As long as they're doing prequels and giving Lara backstory, the next game should be about her trying to overcome the PTSD from all the horrors she had to endure and commit in this game.

 

Eh, given that she actually states that she's rather surprised at how easy all the killing has been, I think it's safe to say that she's just sociopathic and will have no issues

 

That's what she says now.  Then she wakes up in the middle of the night in cold sweat with a strangled cat next to her and broken furniture strewn about her room.  No wonder she's still single in the games.  She either scares potential suitors away with her disregard for human life or murders them in her sleep.

[alanschu]

She doesn't murder them in her sleep.  She's quite awake when it happens.  And talks smack while doing so.

[Raithe]

She doesn't murder them in her sleep.  She's quite awake when it happens.  And talks smack while doing so.

 

What, that isn't just rough foreplay?

[alanschu]

I'm going to stop this before I contribute to it getting oh so wrong, oh so very very wrong.  Because I will! <.<