Update #47: Odds and Ends

[Blackstream]

 

What do you think about cutscenes/cinematics?

 

Entering an unexplored city or a dungeon, will we have any cinematics? I think they play a big role in storytelling. I hope there will be a lot of them.

I think the only thing they've said on this so far is that it'll be similar to switching between chapters in some of the IE games, where you get a narrated sequence, accompanied by static art (which I love, btw). Animation simply is too expensive/time consuming to fit within a crowd sourced budget (and there also seems to be little demand for it in the fanbase).

That's why way back when kickstarter was running, I suggested drawn character portraits for dialogue, like say how recettear does it (Note that Feargus did say he put it in his big list of things to talk and think about, so I assume by now they've already decided for or against this).

It allows you to have cutscene visuals with a fraction of a fraction of the cost of a real cinematic, cause all you need art wise is to draw some stock images for the main character and some expressions, and the same for anyone they interact with (which is like, a couple pieces of character art max, and since you're already drawing the characters in game, it's not much of a step to give them a full drawing. Note that in the picture I posted, there are both dialogues that just overlay the map you're walking on, for when you just have a random conversation on the road or whatever, and for more special dialogues, there are also some with backgrounds.

 

The only problem is that doesn't fit PE's style really right now, but if a solution like this was at all attractive to the PE devs, I'm sure they could find a way to make use of this in a way that would work with the PE art style and presentation.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Blackstream

[anek]

There are still some animations they could implement even with static art, such as slow motion panning and zooming.

 

The BG2 intro combined 2D drawings with some blending/panning animation quite effectively:

[Gumbercules]

That's why way back when kickstarter was running, I suggested drawn character portraits for dialogue, like say how recettear does it (Note that Feargus did say he put it in his big list of things to talk and think about, so I assume by now they've already decided for or against this).

 

It allows you to have cutscene visuals with a fraction of a fraction of the cost of a real cinematic, cause all you need art wise is to draw some stock images for the main character and some expressions, and the same for anyone they interact with (which is like, a couple pieces of character art max, and since you're already drawing the characters in game, it's not much of a step to give them a full drawing. Note that in the picture I posted, there are both dialogues that just overlay the map you're walking on, for when you just have a random conversation on the road or whatever, and for more special dialogues, there are also some with backgrounds.

 

The only problem is that doesn't fit PE's style really right now, but if a solution like this was at all attractive to the PE devs, I'm sure they could find a way to make use of this in a way that would work with the PE art style and presentation.

 

I hope they do end up doing something like this. There's also the Phoenix Wright/Ace Attorney games that did something similar (although they took it a step further and added plenty of animations) and there are various low-budget JRPGs on the DS that used dialogue portraits to great effect, such as Radiant Historia:

 

[rjshae]

I think the comic book department is over on aisle 5. Sigh...

[Frenetic Pony]

Hat plume!!

 

And those miniatures are kickass.

 

Maybe tone it down to one feather? I'm a fan of silly hats, don't mistake. If they're in I'm giving everyone in my party their own unique silly hat to wear. But there's such a thing as TOO silly. I think the leftmost pushes it a little over that fuzzy line.

[HumanFlesh+5]

 

Hat plume!!

 

And those miniatures are kickass.

 

Maybe tone it down to one feather? I'm a fan of silly hats, don't mistake. If they're in I'm giving everyone in my party their own unique silly hat to wear. But there's such a thing as TOO silly. I think the leftmost pushes it a little over that fuzzy line.

don't think these hats are silly. actually, they are designed on a historical basis. just google "landsknecht" and there you are.

 

BIG like for the hat plumes!

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-71nroCq-p6M/T5WlxWg_NmI/AAAAAAAALYc/3Ub5lm87GYc/s1600/MB-007.jpg

 

http://www.kriegsreisende.de/neuzeit/neuz-img/landsknechte_3.jpg

Edited March 27, 2013 by HumanFlesh+5

[Sannom]

Not sure how excited people should get for the hats, Katarina (Dungeon Siege 3) also had hats in concept arts very similar to those, but she never had any in the game!

[jamoecw]

shouldn't the description be deep or far instead of long?  long has the connotations of horizontal distance, deep for vertical, and far is fairly generic.

 

i too thought immediately of darklands, though i hope they don't just use the 'leader' skill into consideration for things the entire group has to do.  this update has gotten me pretty excited for the game, even more so than i was already.

[Morgulon the Wise]

I really would like to have a NPC in the game who owns that Plum hat.

Although a companion with this hat could be much more narratively (And that man/woman shouldn't ever give it away like Minsc& his little friend Bo!)

 

Maybe he/her allows to wear it once you save his/her life - after it burnt half to ashes during a narrow escape out of a burning city ^^

 

Eccentric hats shouldn't ever come to short in a good story (--> Dawn of War 2 Orc campaign)

[Archmage Silver]

+1 kudos for the Torment notification.

[Lephys]

The hat. I want one just like it. With orange plumes. I will wear it always.

 

I'd like to start a petition for a new physical rewards tier. o_o

 

Maybe tone it down to one feather? I'm a fan of silly hats, don't mistake. If they're in I'm giving everyone in my party their own unique silly hat to wear. But there's such a thing as TOO silly. I think the leftmost pushes it a little over that fuzzy line.

 

Heretic!!! Blasphemer! Shun the non-believer! SHUUUUUHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnn...!

Edited March 28, 2013 by Lephys

[TMZuk]

I'm in awe!

 

Those Darklands inspired pages are just amazing!

 

Darklands was for years my favourite CRPG, in spite of the lack of a solid story-line, and NPCs. Simply because it oozed atmosphere. Very, very cool to include these!

[cdx]

Armour looks great and so does the hat. Can’t wait to make fun of some NPC wearing it:)

 

New approach to interior environments? Is that less tile-based and more modelling straight from concept?

 

The storytelling images look amazing! They would feel great for chapter transitions and special occasions but I’m afraid they would get too “standard” and less interesting if they appear too often, like in skill checks, decision taking, etc. I’d much rather see 15-20 of these in the game rather than a hundred. They look way too nice to be a commodity.

Great update, looking forward to the results of the next prototype! (And an Arcanum session where Chris has actually read the manual and plays the game rather than the interface:)

[Falkon Swiftblade]

 

There are still some animations they could implement even with static art, such as slow motion panning and zooming.

 

The BG2 intro combined 2D drawings with some blending/panning animation quite effectively:

 

 

I remember those days It reminds me of what 38 studios was doing for their MMO for Kingdoms of Amalur. You can see the parts I'm referring to here. 

[Hormalakh]

shouldn't the description be deep or far instead of long?  long has the connotations of horizontal distance, deep for vertical, and far is fairly generic.

 

i too thought immediately of darklands, though i hope they don't just use the 'leader' skill into consideration for things the entire group has to do.  this update has gotten me pretty excited for the game, even more so than i was already.

I guess it does bear mentioning, that each character on the party should have their own skill check. We will be making character decisions for them during the game as well and we might not always make the same decisions for our companions as the developers would (making these decisions and thus the skill checks important, imo). For example, we might not increase our dexterous companion's jumping skill but might have spent all our skill points for the last three levels on their lockpick and find traps skills. We'd then have to use another way to get across. 

 

there are certain skill checks that might need only one check, but something like this bridge jump should probably be more like the "camping resource management" where you have to make decisions for every character in your party.

 

edit: in this particular example, anyone who doesn't make the jump is left behind until they find another way of getting them inside. Perhaps your NPCs get left behind (they wait there) until you get back. These make for interesting "loss states" that aren't complete losses. 

Edited March 28, 2013 by Hormalakh

[Wombat]

 

 

How I organized and moved my characters [...] very much captured the feeling of the Infinity Engine games

 

I hope that with regards to moving the party through confined spaces, it didn't capture the IE feeling too closely...

 

Nope, we've got a solution for that. Bobby or Josh will go into that in a future update.

Nice to hear that.  Personally, I like "Choose Your Own Adventure"* style navigation in Darklands.  Even if it interferes with IE feel, I understand.  However, could you consider an option of letting the players fast-travel among important locations such as shops/already discovered camp sites even on local maps?  For I think, one of the things we can do away with in IE games is that the forced routines of babysitting the party back and forth even in "safe" areas.  Of course, random encounters are more than welcome, which would make the process more akin to Fallout rather than the Elder Scrolls.  If I could switch between local maps and the world map with ease, it would be great, too.  Please?

 

*BTW, they are "developing" Lone Wolf series on iOS.  Texts with 2D illustaration don't look bad.

[ManifestedISO]

Seriously excited for this game.  Best update ever. New PC build and monitor ready and waiting.

 

Plumes! Yes! Can we get that new TressFX rendering deal for the feathers.  It makes Lara Croft's ponytail look pretty amazing--imagine the wispy possibilities for plumed caps. lol

[cane]

Whats going on with the Arcanum playthrough? No mention of it here and Chris is as usual too good to answer tweets.

 

I mean people pledged for it and it was an actual stretch goal...

[Zoma]

There's already 2 different playthroughs. They're only done during certain intervals since he's also quite a busy man.

[Chilloutman]

There's already 2 different playthroughs. They're only done during certain intervals since he's also quite a busy man.

 

I hear you, but they mention in last update that there will be another part of his playthourgh in next one (read this), not that I want to rush anything or so...

[sirchet]

Plumes? HAH HAH HAH

 

I actually thought it was a cactus hat and really wanted one.

 

Just think of what you could do with a cactus hat when negotiating prices and such.

[rjshae]

Plumes? HAH HAH HAH

 

I actually thought it was a cactus hat and really wanted one.

 

Just think of what you could do with a cactus hat when negotiating prices and such.

 

Wife's been getting prickly on me arse. I need a hat to match. What would you suggest, sir?

[cane]

There's already 2 different playthroughs. They're only done during certain intervals since he's also quite a busy man.

 

In 6 ( 5?) weeks we haven't even seen progress enough to get him to shrouded Hills, with this pace he won't get to tarant before PE is released.

 

Also he clearly has times to play other games, games that he does on his own leasure compared to a game people gave money for him to play

[nikolokolus]

 

There's already 2 different playthroughs. They're only done during certain intervals since he's also quite a busy man.

 

I hear you, but they mention in last update that there will be another part of his playthourgh in next one (read this), not that I want to rush anything or so...

 

Bear in mind GDC is going on this week and PAX was the week before.  As Obsidian's creative lead, I'm guessing his PR duties outstrip his Arcanum LP diversion for backers.

[GrinningReaper659]

 

There's already 2 different playthroughs. They're only done during certain intervals since he's also quite a busy man.

 

In 6 ( 5?) weeks we haven't even seen progress enough to get him to shrouded Hills, with this pace he won't get to tarant before PE is released.

 

Also he clearly has times to play other games, games that he does on his own leasure compared to a game people gave money for him to play

You're being oddly demanding, it's a pretty crass attitude. If he wants to play games in his leisure time so be it, you're not in control of his life or his schedule. Mentioning things he does in his free time has no relevance to this, as this isn't something that he should be doing in his free time, as you said, he's being payed for it. From the stretch goal: "Also at $4.0m Chris Avellone will be forced to play Arcanum."

 

Nothing there about a timeframe or inviting individual people to dictate what he can do in his free time. I'm sure he knows that he has to play it, let the man have some fun by taking it at his own pace.