Characters from games that you HATE and don't whanna see in PE (or even be inspired)

[Micamo]

I don't want any characters in the game that I don't like, and if I don't get my way I'll throw a tantrum. /sarcasm

 

It's amazing how many people in this thread expect Obsidian to cater to them personally.

 

Considering the subject matter, what did you honestly expect?

[Bos_hybrid]

If a character evokes any emotion from me it's a win for the writer. Hate, like, annoyance, interest, it makes no difference. The only thing a writer doesn't want is apathy.

 

Games/stories need characters we dislike/find annoying just as much as ones we like.

[Micamo]

If a character evokes any emotion from me it's a win for the writer. Hate, like, annoyance, interest, it makes no difference. The only thing a writer doesn't want is apathy.

 

Games/stories need characters we dislike/find annoying just as much as ones we like.

 

Well, I think there's a difference between liking/disliking a person and liking/disliking a character. Companions who I dislike as a person are okay, it's ones I dislike as a character that I don't want to see in the game.

 

What's the difference? When I dislike a person in the game, I'll go out of my way to disrespect them and do things they won't like, and I get satisfaction from interacting with them this way.

 

Good example: The council from Mass Effect 1. They were the completely functionally useless and whiny figureheads of a creepy racist galactic autocracy, but they worked because this was intentional on the part of the writer and they weren't set up as hypercompetent, benevolent rulers.

 

Great example: Ignus from Ps:T. He was a dangerous psychopath, but I let him follow me around anyway, as irresponsible as that ultimately turned out to be. Why? Because I legitimately felt bad for what my previous incarnation did to him, and I hoped that I would get a chance to somehow make things right.

 

But when I dislike a character in the game, my hate is directed not at the person the character is supposed to represent but at the writer who made them. My immersion in the setting is broken and I can only interact with them in this weird, metagamey way. If I like the rest of the game, then at best I'll forgive the writer and just try to ignore the problem. At worst it can cause complete narrative collapse and utterly destroy my ability to enjoy anything about the game.

 

Example: Sis from Alpha Protocol. Okay, so she's a 14-year old (maybe older, I never read her dossier) punk chick with dyed purple hair, tight jeans, and a stupid jacket, and somehow she's a dual-pistol-wielding badass who is somehow Albatross's "bodyguard." Oh, and for maximum sympathy points, she's an orphaned mute. It's not only an implausible idea but it runs completely counter to the tone of everything established about the world prior to this. Maybe her character has some sort of payoff later, but I'll never find out because Sis's introduction was the point where I decided to quit playing.

[Bradr]

Imoen - whiny, immature, little-annoying-sister

Nalia - whiny, pretentious noble, vapid

 

Pretty much everyone from NWN & NWN2.  (Although I think I was so upset with the switch from infinity to whatever that mess was, that I disliked almost everything.  But I distinctly remember no attachment whatsoever with any of the characters.)

[kabaliero]

r u kiddin' me?
sarevok + charname + imoen = inferno + purgarotio + paradiso
an unbreakable triangle of multiverse' balance :D

but when i was, like, effin' 18
i thought that she was annoying, too
and hated the "saving imoen" quest
 

but some years later i couldn't imagine charname without his lil' sis around
and< his big bro
regardless of that they all are not rly blood-related 

Oh, and on the subject: i'd hate to see kids who can insult you for no reason
and get away with it by having an army of guards at their side or just a godmode on
or both

it's about goddam time for those friggin' kids in RPGs to learn some respect

maybe i alrdy posted this here somewhere some months ago )

Edited April 29, 2013 by kabaliero

[Catharsis]

 

I don't want any characters in the game that I don't like, and if I don't get my way I'll throw a tantrum. /sarcasm

 

It's amazing how many people in this thread expect Obsidian to cater to them personally.

 

Considering the subject matter, what did you honestly expect?

 

Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals. Instead I see people complaining about that one character they didn't like from some game or worrying that Obsidian will suddenly decide that making crappy characters would be the best course of action.

[Kjaamor]

Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals. Instead I see people complaining about that one character they didn't like from some game or worrying that Obsidian will suddenly decide that making crappy characters would be the best course of action.

 

Ah. Er...no. RPG gamers, even those from the silver and golden ages of RPGs, tend to be opinionated, extremely blinkered and subsequently rather arrogant regarding their own ideas and design skills whilst trusting no-one else, including the very designers who make the games. Any suggestion that RPers are smarter is shot down in flames and subsequently nuked as soon as you set foot in any mmorpg.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am in no way excepted from this myself.

[JFSOCC]

I find it interesting that I always feel guilty dropping someone from my party, whether I like them or not. That's because they were dumped on me in the first place. If I could make a decision prior to joining my party I might never experience characters that annoy me

[Sannom]

Maturity, restraint. I thought RPG gamers were supposed to be smarter than the casuals.

Even if that were true, smarter doesn't mean wiser. Casuals probably stay away from those forums where all the weirdos gather to argue about everything and nothing.

 

As for what kind of character I wouldn't want in a game... no idea. What I don't want is for some characters to take so much of the screen-time and plot-importance that the other characters feel under-developed.

 

though the OC lacked any evil companions except Bishop who was so horribly disney-evil

Bishop couldn't have been Disney-evil, he had no ambition besides staying unattached. He reminded me more of Hanharr in that respect. Kinda like how Amon felt like a deconstruction of Revan.

[Auxilius]

Well, gonna list what would be unliked then:

Kids or teenagers, unless there is an excellent reason for their presence.

Arrogant characters whining endlessly unless you're their sniveling lackey like Qara.

Male/female only here to sexually tease the player.

Gnomes. Seriously, screw gnomes.

 

A side note on the arrogant characters. They can be good but they have to be well-written, with a justified personality.

[GrumpyOldschooler]

Too hard to list really, but some of the worst ones I have seen are probably from original NWN. Like Deekin and that whatever paladin-girl who turns evil later.

 

There is also Bastila, Atton and Carth, ugh, not the worst characters ever or particularly annoying, but hopelessly generic. Rest of the bunch isn't very interesting either, aside the black-comedy relief automat HK-47. I liked Mission from KoTOR-series though, but only because it was refreshing to have attractive teenage girl as a follower in a western game. Oh and there's that certain absurdly cruel, but pretty hilarious (in very black way) thing about Mission and evil ending. Kid killing in a Star Wars game, yummy. There was also Kreia, she was very good (probably best character in the series) and interesting IMO, but felt bit of a rehashed version of Ravel. KoTOR 2 characters generally had some potential, but they felt pretty shallow, aside Kreia. I think it was because the game was rushed.

 

 

Fallout 1&2 followers deserve to be mentioned as undesirable inspiration too. Not because they are bad characters (they aren't), but they are so generic they can hardly be called characters. Prime example of how to not to do followers in an RPG game.

 

Marcus is the only one with some basic personality. I know there is Myron (insecure teenage nerd evil mastermind), but he is useless and annoying, though in a good way, so you can have fun selling him to slavers or just killing him.

 

Also anything from Skyrim, Fallout 3 (not NV) and Oblivion is just horrid. Sometimes even worse than NWN. Endless amounts of bad dialogue and childish immersion breaking nonsense stories, but I know well enougn Obsidian won't be taking any inspiration from there.

 

...and ofcourse Drizzt (yup, he is in BG, but luckily not as story character and you can kill him)

 

Luckily enough I haven't played DA2. I just can't. Tried, but even the beginning hurts.

Edited May 5, 2013 by GrumpyOldschooler

[Arsene Lupin]

There are no real archetypes I hate... but I've seen plenty of characters "done wrong," mostly in Bioware games, so here's my (short) list of things that should NOT be in ANY game EVER:

 

• A character whose personality revolves entirely around his or her sexuality.
• A character specifically designed to be utterly inoffensive to everyone... by way of having no personality at all.
• A character with no discernible flaws or eccentricities.
• A character who is shoehorned into filling out a specific role in the narrative, when doing so is antithetical to his or her personality.

 

...Honestly, I'm much rather make a list of the kinds of characters I REALLY WANT TO SEE!

 

• A loyal comrade with a few screws loose and and a knack for saying really funny things (but not meaning to)--like Minsc.
• A wisecracking sidekick with a proclivity for hyperbole, falsehood, and uncertain loyalties--like Morte.
• A "stranger in a strange world" character who doesn't really fit in, and doesn't try to--like Viconia.
• Characters whose personality you can change dramatically through your interactions--like the relationships that would result in alignment-changes in  Baldur's Gate and KOTOR.
• Silly mascot character, like Boo and the blacksmith-imp in Throne of Bhaal.
• A TALKING LIZARD MAN
• A character who establishes a "fake" personality and maintains the facade for a long time, who you can't really get to know until he betrays the part--like Yoshimo.
• A lazy-but-super-smart character, like Yang Wenli. (Major props if you know who that is).

[GrumpyOldschooler]

• A lazy-but-super-smart character, like Yang Wenli. (Major props if you know who that is).

 

This and I believe that particular massive Japanese cartoon series would be generally good place to look for inspiration on other characters too.

 

Also for some strange reason I forgot Sulik from Fallout 2. I feel really bad for it, since he was really good character, but it was probably because he is only well done follower in those two games.

Edited May 5, 2013 by GrumpyOldschooler

[Tamerlane]

There was also Kreia, she was very good (probably best character in the series) and interesting IMO, but felt bit of a rehashed version of Ravel.

 

I think that that was quite intentional, given

Ravel's penchant for fracturing into a bunch of different people across the Planes.

 

 

For what it's worth, I vaguely recall reading an interview with Chris Avellone saying that he's done all that he really wanted to do with that character.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Tamerlane

[argan]

Kai Leng. Save us from useless space ninjas, or their equivalent.

[Aldereth]

Kai Leng. Save us from useless space ninjas, or their equivalent.

I would actually go so far as to say, give us a believable space ninja.  Not for Project Eternity of course since PE has nothing to do with space.  (I think).

Edited May 18, 2013 by Aldereth

[Lephys]

 

Kai Leng. Save us from useless space ninjas, or their equivalent.

I would actually go so far as to say, give us a believable space ninja.  Not for Project Eternity of course since PE has nothing to do with space.  (I think).

 

Haha.

 

My problem with Kai Leng had nothing to do with him being a space ninja. He would've fit in perfectly in the Shadowrun universe, as a Street Samurai. 8P

 

My problem with Kai Leng is that he was all "I'm literally the best person operative in the universe, because of my own awesomeness and skill. Oh no, you've partially killed me! GUNSHIP! COVER ME WHILE I USE A BUNCH OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME FOR FREE (and which I had absolutely no part in developing or implementing) TO ESSENTIALLY REGENERATE MYSELF BACK TO MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS! ZOMG, YOU GUYS! Did you see how badly I kicked your arses, solely on my own, without the help of a huge effing gunship or a bunch of technology that could make a kitten badass? LOLZ!"

 

How's about no characters like that. No calm, collected, precision badasses with narcissistic tendencies who rely on literally everything that isn't of their own making. A narcissist who's so obsessed with being the best that he trains as hard as he can for 10 hours a day and can break into a castle with a toothpick? Sure. But not one with literally a cyborg body who constantly runs away and has gunships and oodles of no-name soldiers cover his cowardice, all the while thinking he's the ultimate badass.

[Micamo]

Eh, the problem with Kai Leng is the same problem with all of Cerberus in ME3 (and to a lesser extent in ME2): They're what happens when your DM gets a woody for a pet NPC and decides to stroke it at the expense of the players' enjoyment of the game. Except even worse because in a video game you can control the PCs to a much greater extent. They're these massive idiots who somehow have infinite resources and succeed at everything they try because Shepard comes down with Cutscene Stupidity Syndrome.

 

Actually, you know who he's just like? Ammon mother-****ing Jerro. At least you aren't railroaded into having Kai Leng join your party just after he murders Garrus.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Micamo

[cleric Nemir]

Oh look,a place to throw rocks at NWN 2.. 

 

Jokes aside,I actually want to say something regarding the post. Capslock time.

 

WHATEVER YOU DO,DO NOT FORCE US TO DRAG AROUND YOUR NPC CHARACTERS.

 

Make this a golden rule. I simply do not wish to have been made to go to a key location followed by an NPC that I dislike. NEVER.

Make me choose,make me regret,but do not force it upon me. That's all I wish to say here.

[Oerwinde]

I like what BG2 did with companions in that they never really joined you. They would tag along if you wanted, but aside from Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen, and to a lesser degree, Yoshimo, they weren't really attached personally to the PC.

[mickeym]

Anomen. Why did the worst personality in the game have to be one of the most powerful recruitable NPCs? WHY?!

[argan]

 

 

Kai Leng. Save us from useless space ninjas, or their equivalent.

I would actually go so far as to say, give us a believable space ninja.  Not for Project Eternity of course since PE has nothing to do with space.  (I think).

 

Haha.

 

My problem with Kai Leng had nothing to do with him being a space ninja. He would've fit in perfectly in the Shadowrun universe, as a Street Samurai. 8P

 

My problem with Kai Leng is that he was all "I'm literally the best person operative in the universe, because of my own awesomeness and skill. Oh no, you've partially killed me! GUNSHIP! COVER ME WHILE I USE A BUNCH OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME FOR FREE (and which I had absolutely no part in developing or implementing) TO ESSENTIALLY REGENERATE MYSELF BACK TO MAXIMUM EFFECTIVENESS! ZOMG, YOU GUYS! Did you see how badly I kicked your arses, solely on my own, without the help of a huge effing gunship or a bunch of technology that could make a kitten badass? LOLZ!"

 

How's about no characters like that. No calm, collected, precision badasses with narcissistic tendencies who rely on literally everything that isn't of their own making. A narcissist who's so obsessed with being the best that he trains as hard as he can for 10 hours a day and can break into a castle with a toothpick? Sure. But not one with literally a cyborg body who constantly runs away and has gunships and oodles of no-name soldiers cover his cowardice, all the while thinking he's the ultimate badass.

 

 

That's true as well. It felt extra stupid that Shephard is heralded and built up to become some kind of unstoppable demi-god and then this joke of a guy comes and beats him in a damn cutscene? Seriously, Bioware, what the hell were you thinking?

 

And just the fact that he's introduced in the ME novels before being introduced in the game, and then not even given an explanation of who he is or why the hell he is there?

 

Yeah, Bioware lost it completely with Mass Effect 3.

[kapuski]

Well to be fair, Kai Leng wasn't as bad as the catalyst kid. Deus Ex Machina is annoying in any game, but then you assign a random kid to that role and you activate my infinity hate mode.

 

Also Witcher 2 main enemy guy was really boring. The makers just decided to max all his attributes and call it a character. "oh, he is a muscular fighter. AND a wizard! AND a master of plots! AND does parkour! He is the perfect bad guy!" 

[anameforobsidian]

I hated Grobnar.

Boone bored me.

Zhjaeve was more a plot device than character.

I honestly don't remember Casavir.

Carth from Kotor really annoyed me.

 

 

Then there was the drunken fighter from Jade Empire....

Well to be fair, Kai Leng wasn't as bad as the catalyst kid. Deus Ex Machina is annoying in any game, but then you assign a random kid to that role and you activate my infinity hate mode.

 

Also Witcher 2 main enemy guy was really boring. The makers just decided to max all his attributes and call it a character. "oh, he is a muscular fighter. AND a wizard! AND a master of plots! AND does parkour! He is the perfect bad guy!" 

 

 

So he's pretty much evil Geralt then.  Sounds like a perfect match to me.

Edited December 11, 2013 by anameforobsidian

[DuskDweller78]

Xan...... we're all doooooomed.