GrumpyOldschooler

Oops happened to me too, so you're not alone. Anyway, regarding that sort of feel, I'd say out of these options BG would be best. Torment's atmosphere is too alien for this world, but then again Fogotten Realms is way more juvenile and fairy taleish than this seems to be, so it's pretty hard to say. IWD2 was pretty gritty and nice for FR, but combat heaviness was part of the atmosphere and that's not really my thing. Though I enjoyed IWD2 until Yuan-Ti stuff, it was fun combat-oriented adventure, but at that point it just became combat without any adventure or fun.

Also I had an interesting realization while pondering on this, ironically I have heard people calling semi-old RPGs like Fallout and Arcanum sexist or even misogynist, yet in these RPGs you can play unsexualized normal woman. Newer games that are called "inclusive" and "female-friendly" tend to generally oversexualize (ofcourse there are exceptions) look of all the women up to armor even if it's not usually the extreme bikini-variety. Strange really when you come to think of it.

I know I'm not probably allowed to ask, but I still want to know why do people want boob plates and chain bikinis anyway in a game like this? I mean I can understand the sex appeal, but atleast for me it kills immersion totally if all female armor available looks like cheap fetish fashion. Why not just have "special" kind of dungeon (and no I don't mean dungeon in RPG sense ) for that stuff? There are very few kind of worlds where such items feel approriate and can even be bool. They might fit to very bizarre and artistic world ie. Heavy Metal or some erotic-anime fantasy, but I don't see them having much place in more serious stuff unless the setting is bizarre enough and that's why such "porn gear" worked in Torment.

Ffordesoon summarized it pretty well there, but to be honest I want it to divert bit from IE-standard towards Fallout-style when it comes to exploration.

Nice stuff. This guy seems to grasp spirit of classic RPGs well. Oddly enough I have never heard of him, but I might be just too old. I don't play modern games much. It's these kickstarters really that have awoken gaming spirit in me. Now when's the kickstar for Fallout + KODP? (latter is awesome game if bit unknown, go play it, it's even on GOG)

I'm intrigued by this. Could you please link that post? It sounds worrisome indeed. Also in my opinion New Vegas and KoTOR2 were much stronger on story, C&C and quest design than characters. Especially KoTOR2 wasn't very good with characters aside Kreia. Regardless, I think it's safe to assume they're going for same route as say New Vegas. Probably same with talking vs. killing, main quest etc. It would be pretty strange if they're not, since that game was probably Obsidian's greatest success. Also now that they have Tim Cain along, I bet things will gravitate to that direction, since that's his style. Also I believe atleast regarding to evil stuff "bad choices" wouldn't be punished overtly like in say Fallout 1&2 (probably the worst ones on that department that actually still allow you to be evil), since KoTOR2, New Vegas and even Arcanum did those pretty well. All that aside, I still think it's bit flawed to argue that rewarding and punishing players for certain choices is discouraging roleplay as long there is reasonable balance with that, ie. consequences are not truly game breaking such as was being evil in Fallout 1&2. I can see what you mean, but honestly I'm not much of Baldur's Gate fan and only IE game I love is PS:T, so I can't comment much on that. Like I said for me RPGs are mostly about story, dialogue and C&C, so I don't care about rest much. I still do find focus on technical aspects of IE games bit odd though. It's not like that was their strongest point.

And I thought I was too grumpy and pessimistic when it comes to games, but it's refreshing to see someone who is even more. Anyway, 1. Yeah, I kinda agree here, but I believe you're underestimating Obsidian's capabilities. New Vegas was hell of an achievement and KoTOR2 was quite good despite being rushed. 2. Completely agree on this one though. 3. True, but then again Dead Money was a crazy experiment done in very short time. I think Obsidian already knows better not to pull anything like that again. Ironically enough it probably taugth them something, atleast I hope so. Still, I liked the characters and story. 4. I don't believe Obsidian is going to try to cater for every possible demographic from what I've seen the game seems to be aimed at core fans of their games and similiar older games. I don't think anything on forums can change that. P:E is pretty clearly mostly "nostalgy" game aimed for older RPG fans. This group is pretty uniform even if debates like "was arcanum **** or good" or "fallout 1 is better than 2" exist within it. Edit: Oh yeah, forgot those pure Baldur's Gate fans, I have no idea what they want and what they are like, but while that series had some serious malignant tumours I don't think Obsidian is going to export them to P:E, aside RT-combat that has been confirmed. I also believe those fans are pretty easy to satisfy by just having "epic" main quest where you get to fight things and maybe some romance. I don't really think their demands will conflict with story-oriented more hardcore RPG-fans, but for combat and system complexity it could be different.

Considering Obsidian's two most recent attempts to make Deep and Interesting game mechanics (Alpha Protocol and Dead Money) I think Project Eternity needs a tactical combat focus as much as Obsidian needs to be bought out by EA. True, but it's different though as when developing those games obsidian lacked a forum like this to keep them grounded on what fans are expecting and want. I'm not one of those though and I'm not particularly interested in going to gameplay forums, so I'm not suggesting it, since I have no idea what to expect. Hopefully there are some good ideas there. Then again it has been said that the game will be RTWP. That basically means it's BG all over again and while combat could be fun it was by no means tactical or very interesting. I personally would wish for TB, but sadly it's not going to happen.

You speak of truth and I'd say Torment's romances are the best examples of that kind, but me (oddly enough) I'm all for more traditional romances too. Not sure if I'd ever try them, but extra content never hurts. Thing is that as long as they're optional and not forced on your character they're fine to me. I'm a firm believer that a good RPG should offer something for everyone. Also I'd too love to see more NPC romances within your party. It's sadly really unexplored terroritory.

Yeah, I sadly forgot those. Also regarding killable children it shouldn't be so ridiculously punished like it was in Fallout. Jagged Alliance 2 (not an RPG, but still) series handled it realistic, mature and appropriate way. Also regarding combat, I'm a storyfag on RPGs, for me it's all about dialogue and Command & Conquer. For tactics I go play turn based strategy, but it would be nice to se a modern RPG with good combat. I bet Wasteland 2 will deliver on that front though.

This and I believe that particular massive Japanese cartoon series would be generally good place to look for inspiration on other characters too. Also for some strange reason I forgot Sulik from Fallout 2. I feel really bad for it, since he was really good character, but it was probably because he is only well done follower in those two games.

This. Also NWN has several arches. It's not Japanese thing really. Infact it's really common in western RPGs too. It's pretty natural for story to be arched if it's long enough. It provides pace and keeps things interesting. Long non-arched story can end up very boring. Infact it's rarer to see any modern or even semi-modern story driven western RPG with non-arched story. Even Fallout 1&2 both had arching stories despite the freedom they offer. Even hybrids like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 have arching story. Also New Vegas is actually pretty pure dual arched story. First you just hunt Benny for revenge and then after big revelation you take over Mojave or help someone else to do it. It's just filled with insane amounts of side quests that actually rivals Arcanum.

Too hard to list really, but some of the worst ones I have seen are probably from original NWN. Like Deekin and that whatever paladin-girl who turns evil later. There is also Bastila, Atton and Carth, ugh, not the worst characters ever or particularly annoying, but hopelessly generic. Rest of the bunch isn't very interesting either, aside the black-comedy relief automat HK-47. I liked Mission from KoTOR-series though, but only because it was refreshing to have attractive teenage girl as a follower in a western game. Oh and there's that certain absurdly cruel, but pretty hilarious (in very black way) thing about Mission and evil ending. Kid killing in a Star Wars game, yummy. There was also Kreia, she was very good (probably best character in the series) and interesting IMO, but felt bit of a rehashed version of Ravel. KoTOR 2 characters generally had some potential, but they felt pretty shallow, aside Kreia. I think it was because the game was rushed. Fallout 1&2 followers deserve to be mentioned as undesirable inspiration too. Not because they are bad characters (they aren't), but they are so generic they can hardly be called characters. Prime example of how to not to do followers in an RPG game. Marcus is the only one with some basic personality. I know there is Myron (insecure teenage nerd evil mastermind), but he is useless and annoying, though in a good way, so you can have fun selling him to slavers or just killing him. Also anything from Skyrim, Fallout 3 (not NV) and Oblivion is just horrid. Sometimes even worse than NWN. Endless amounts of bad dialogue and childish immersion breaking nonsense stories, but I know well enougn Obsidian won't be taking any inspiration from there. ...and ofcourse Drizzt (yup, he is in BG, but luckily not as story character and you can kill him) Luckily enough I haven't played DA2. I just can't. Tried, but even the beginning hurts.

I say go for more realistic dinosaur like dragons, just because it would be refreshing take on subject that has been like beating of a dead horse for decades. Maybe some would even lack wings. That would be pretty original. Oh and please don't make them intelligent, that kills all the beasty and predatory feeling I still don't find feathers a good idea though.

Oddly enough I haven't seen topic like this here, so I will be first to start. In this thread we post things and features from our favourite RPGs we'd love to see in Project Eternity. I'll start with few games I have known and loved very dearly. Fallout 1&2: -Humour (some might find it bit childish though) -Very high verbal quality of dialog -Ability to talk your way out of most conflicts (if having necessary stats&skills) -Very free exploration (esp. Fallout 2) -Ending slides -Refreshingly daring take on sex (especially for it's time) -Random encounters (funny and scripted ones, not boring monsters-only ones) Baldur's Gate 1&2: -Cities that feel big -Characters (some might find some of them annoying though) -Banter Planescape Torment: -Philosophy -Story of personal exploration and rediscovery -Nice bestiary -Very alien world (planescape is interesting setting) -Ability to lots of interesting things through dialogue -Characters (very bizarre and unique, but very lovable) Arcanum: -Lots of Choices and Consequences -Ability to create very diverse characters -Race, gender and sometimes even clothes having profound effects on dialogue -Raise spirit ability (sadly underused by game) -Some great characters (ie. Geoffrey, Torian Kel, Magnus and most of voiced ones, aside Virgil) -Interesting lore flavouring books Morrowind: -Lots of unique loot -Interesting books (like Arcanum, but lot of more) KotOR 1&2: -Full-blown evil path (even if just silly puppy kicking in KoTOR 1)