Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part III).

[Merlkir]

Oh yes, that's a good one. Lots of Tobias Capwell goodness.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Merlkir

[Nonek]

Touch anglocentric, but these little movies are rather nice:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGFb1Pu-YA

Edited April 12, 2013 by Nonek

[Spiritofpower]

Document worth to watch, about english armours and especially full plates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO-pX9PrzSI

Ooh, very nice. I'd like to see armor like that in PE, possibly as the sort of stuff you see end-game and on royalty and the like. Though I personally find the codpieces a bit overdone. Heh, I'm fine with an armor coated in acid-etched gold, but put a large codpiece on it and suddenly I think it looks ridiculous...

 

Anyways, I now have some more pictures, this time of the ancient Greek Xiphos:

 

 

 

 

 

Really difficult to find pictures of these. Also note that when you search you find lots of stuff which doesn't match the main descriptors of Xiphoi according to my research, which is that they have a leaf-shaped, double-edged blade, widest approximately two-thirds of the way down, coming to a point. I'd really like to see some of these in PE.

[Caerdon]

Really difficult to find pictures of these. Also note that when you search you find lots of stuff which doesn't match the main descriptors of Xiphoi according to my research, which is that they have a leaf-shaped, double-edged blade, widest approximately two-thirds of the way down, coming to a point. I'd really like to see some of these in PE.

Xiphos was leaf-shaped because it was made of bronze; a leaf-shaped steel sword would be quite unsophisticated. Would it fit PE's world? I'm not sure. It guess it would be a weapon suitable for a militia with limited training.

[Merlkir]

Greek leaf swords were of course made of iron as well and there was nothing unsophisticated about them. They were not made to pierce armour, or to hit tiny gaps in it. They were made to hack and stab leaving wide wounds open. The shape works perfectly fine.

[Woldan]

Another Great Warknife. I love those blades.

 

 

 

And a Renaissance short-sword, the Katzbalger: 

 

 

 

Landsknechts carried them as secondary weapons for close quarter combat when their Zweihänders became too long and cumbersome.

 

 

 

Oh, and lets not forget the true medieval multi-purpose tool, the Mordaxt:

 

 

 

 

Some versions of it had a blunt head instead of an axe-head, making it look more like a huge warhammer. 

 

Edited April 13, 2013 by Woldan

[Tsuga C]

Brutal poleaxes, Woldan--serious can openers for use against plate.

[crackwise]

Ok, this is my first post actually. And since I didn't know that such a thread existed, I had posted it to the wrong place. So now here I am posting it again.

 

 

In most CRPGs, the weapons are too fantastic and don't have any real life counterpart, or they are very common types of weapons and mostly derived from Medieval - Renaissance European weapons.

 

I think there are plenty of exotic weapons from real life which can be included in the game.

 

My first suggestion would be the "Yatagan" sword. It is a short sabre which was extensively used in the Ottoman Empire territory between 16th - 19th centuries. It was the trademark sword of Jannissaries. The originality of this sword comes from the fact that it is curved towards the front and has no hand guards at the hilt. It was ideal for carrying as a side arm next to the musket, due to its small size and strong slashing momentum because of having its center of weight towards the tip.

 

Some Yatagans:

 

 

The yatagan was worn on the waist inside the sash, slightly similar how the samurai used to wear the wakizashi. (On this photo M. Kemal Ataturk posing as a Janissary)

 

 

While scimitars and sabres have found much place in the games, they are usually depicted as having rather broad blades. I believe this may be a slight exageration while the real turkish "Kilic" (sword in Turkish) is like this:

 

 

Indonesia and the region surrounding have very peculiar looking weapons indeed. They definitely look as if they are from a fantasy role playing game. For instance the "Kris", a type of dagger, which is distinguished by its wavy pattern.

 

 

Kris can be worn in different ways:

 

Another very original weapon from Indonesia is the "Kujang" which is a sickle shaped short weapon.

 

The "Kampilan" sword from the Phillipines also looks as if it was created in a fantasy setting, but it is real. It is around 100 cm long and is mainly used with two hands.

[Merlkir]

It's funny how a sword from the Philippines has a very similar shape to a medieval falchion. Well, both are essentially cleavers. But it's weird, it even has that toothlike spike at the tip.

[Woldan]

The perfect helmet for a villain.   

 

 

Helmets! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Breast plate: 

 

 

And last but not least cat armor! 

 

 

 

[Tsuga C]

That is some profoundly ornate parade armor, Woldan--armor as high art!  Stuff like that might be fine for "artifact level" equipment, but I wouldn't want to see it anywere but the highest levels of the game.  If such craftsmanship was commonplace, it'd cheapen that which ought to be held dear.

[Woldan]

I absolutely agree, this is armor made for high kings, arls and other medieval snobs, nothing a poor mid-level adventurer could ever afford, let alone need. Personally, I'm more of a fan of simple but functional armor. 

[Greensleeve]

It's funny how a sword from the Philippines has a very similar shape to a medieval falchion. Well, both are essentially cleavers. But it's weird, it even has that toothlike spike at the tip.

 

Well, not really that surprising, is it? It's all about physics and biomechanics. A cleaver-like blade like that is very effective at what it does, it's not surprising that similar designs popped up in different locations in the world. 

[Diagoras]

The following are images depicting the Second Siege of Rhodes or the Siege of Malta. I feel that none of them do those two battles the proper justice (especially Malta!), but they're the best I could find. The Wikipedia articles on them are decent at conveying the scale, intensity, and flat-out insanity of those battles.

 

 

 

 

 

I find the hybrid Medieval/Early Modern defensive techniques and structures particularly interesting. Towers and bastions, portcullis and earthen-works existing side-by-side.

[Woldan]

I know, not everyone is happy to see firearms in a fantasy game, but since we're going to have at least one character carrying a primitive musket into battle we should also discuss periodically correct (- judging by the gun the character is carrying in the artwork) firearms , if you like it or not!

 

Some pics I made in a museum showing original wheellocks and some early matchlock muskets: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2013 by Woldan

[Diagoras]

Hot damn, Woldan. Where do you live where they have guns like that on display? And the armor from your previous posts?

 

If I'm spotting them right: bonkers two-barreled wheellock pistol, wheellock arquebus and pistols, handgonne, more wheellock arquebus, close up of wheellock mechanism.

 

Were any of those arquebus rifled, or have rifled inserts? They look like hunting weapons, and I think I spotted both rear and front sights on some of them.

[Woldan]

As far as I know the first guns with spiral-rifled barrels appeared around ~1550, those were total exceptions though, pretty much all guns back than were smoothbores. Most of the guns on my photo date back to the early to mid 16th century so I doubt that any of those have a rifled barrel - but its definitely possible that some of them were retrofitted with rifled barrels or rifling and sights later on when those innovations were more common. - Its cheaper to update a gun than buying a new one I think, especially during a time when guns still were custom made and cost as much as a whole farm (including the workers).

But I've also seen early 15th century matchlock wallguns with surprisingly sophisticated front and rear sights. Its all a bit unclear...but thats history I guess.
 

Hot damn, Woldan. Where do you live where they have guns like that on display? And the armor from your previous posts?

Well, Austria is right in the middle of Europe, exactly where several medieval battles and the 30 year war raged only a couple of centuries ago, all the equipment had to go somewhere and (fortunately!) a lot of it found its way to the big Austrian museums in Vienna.
Austria may be a tiny country but we're very good at accumulating cool stuff. (I'm a military rifle collector myself). 

Edited May 1, 2013 by Woldan

[Elerond]

[Gfted1]

The little knife on its hip is hilarious.

[Randomthom]

Hot damn, Woldan. Where do you live where they have guns like that on display? And the armor from your previous posts?

Well, Austria is right in the middle of Europe, exactly where several medieval battles and the 30 year war raged only a couple of centuries ago, all the equipment had to go somewhere and (fortunately!) a lot of it found its way to the big Austrian museums in Vienna.

Austria may be a tiny country but we're very good at accumulating cool stuff. (I'm a military rifle collector myself). 

 

Hah, this reminded me of Eddie Izzard (Multi-lingual cross-dressing British comedian) when he was doing a stand-up in the USA.

"I'm from Europe, where the history comes from".

 

[Diagoras]

As far as I know the first guns with spiral-rifled barrels appeared around ~1550, those were total exceptions though, pretty much all guns back than were smoothbores. Most of the guns on my photo date back to the early to mid 16th century so I doubt that any of those have a rifled barrel - but its definitely possible that some of them were retrofitted with rifled barrels or rifling and sights later on when those innovations were more common. - Its cheaper to update a gun than buying a new one I think, especially during a time when guns still were custom made and cost as much as a whole farm (including the workers).

 

1520 is the date I have for spiraled grooves, though they were rare and not as effective as mid-16th century rifles (when they tightened the spirals). Still, they existed and were used for certain specialized functions.

 

But I've also seen early 15th century matchlock wallguns with surprisingly sophisticated front and rear sights. Its all a bit unclear...but thats history I guess.

 

 

Now that is cool - and bizarre. Where'd you spot that?

 

 

Austria may be a tiny country but we're very good at accumulating cool stuff. (I'm a military rifle collector myself). 

 

Clearly. I'm jealous.

[Woldan]

1520 is the date I have for spiraled grooves, though they were rare and not as effective as mid-16th century rifles (when they tightened the spirals). Still, they existed and were used for certain specialized functions.

AFAIK those first rifled barrels had those grooves to collect powder fowling, some of them had spiral rifling, but like you said the twist rate wasn't suitable to stabilize a projectile through spinning it. Experts say that a handful of guns from the the very late 16th century had barrels with rifling twist rates that would stabilize projectiles which is 1:50 - 1:80 or so, depending on the powder charge.

 

Now that is cool - and bizarre. Where'd you spot that?

I'll try to find that pic...

 

Here is a so called ''Tschinke'', an early version of a muzzleloader fowling shotgun. Those look pretty cool lMO.  

And yes, they have front and rear sights! 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Woldan

[centurionofprix]

[LadyCrimson]

I'm not normally all that into paintings, but I like that one.

[JFSOCC]

Hot damn, Woldan. Where do you live where they have guns like that on display? And the armor from your previous posts?

 

If I'm spotting them right: bonkers two-barreled wheellock pistol, wheellock arquebus and pistols, handgonne, more wheellock arquebus, close up of wheellock mechanism.

 

Were any of those arquebus rifled, or have rifled inserts? They look like hunting weapons, and I think I spotted both rear and front sights on some of them.

There's a fantastic collection in the Military history museum in Delft.