How not to ruin PE with the Beta?

[Ieo]

They could use the first three levels of the Endless Paths as a "Beta" to test combat abilities and balance, without spoiling the main story at all.

 

The mega-dungeon would be a perfectly contained testing ground for mechanical purposes. The only item that Obsidian can't and won't allow for full testing is a full game based on dialogic content (as Adam's quote says), and that's great. With the sheer number of potential beta testers due to their KS add-on setup, I'm sure there will be leaks, and Obsidian probably won't be able to maintain power over an NDA. Even though we know the beta won't be the full game, there's still a huge range of what content would be available for testing--percentage of landscape quests, how much of the mega dungeon, etc. But it's too early to tell, not to mention everyone has a different level of spoiler-tolerance.

 

For people who got a bundled beta key, no point in trying to decide before the late 2013/early 2014 beta period, I'm sure. For people who did an add-on and need to decide earlier whether to convert to something else.... um, well, decide your own tolerance, I guess? And even if more of the game is available than you want to spoil, you could always limit yourself to a specific area.

[metacontent]

Amputation from the neck down, its the only way to be sure.

[GhostofAnakin]

When do the beta testing stages usually begin? I'll need to know so I can avoid the forums in case any beta testers get any smart ideas about revealing stuff I don't want to know about before I get a chance to play.

[Elerond]

They could use the first three levels of the Endless Paths as a "Beta" to test combat abilities and balance, without spoiling the main story at all.

 

The mega-dungeon would be a perfectly contained testing ground for mechanical purposes. The only item that Obsidian can't and won't allow for full testing is a full game based on dialogic content (as Adam's quote says), and that's great. With the sheer number of potential beta testers due to their KS add-on setup, I'm sure there will be leaks, and Obsidian probably won't be able to maintain power over an NDA. Even though we know the beta won't be the full game, there's still a huge range of what content would be available for testing--percentage of landscape quests, how much of the mega dungeon, etc. But it's too early to tell, not to mention everyone has a different level of spoiler-tolerance.

 

For people who got a bundled beta key, no point in trying to decide before the late 2013/early 2014 beta period, I'm sure. For people who did an add-on and need to decide earlier whether to convert to something else.... um, well, decide your own tolerance, I guess? And even if more of the game is available than you want to spoil, you could always limit yourself to a specific area.

 

In many countries you can't add conditions after purchace of the product and many of this countries view that product rewards from kickstarter are pre-orders, so in these cases Obsidian can't add legaly binding NDA anymore to their beta-keys, but I don't see why they would even have such needs as they openly share information about game and discuss it with us, which was one of the reasons why they wanted to PE via kickstarter. So if person has really low spoiler tolerance I would suggest that s/he keep away spoiler allowed parts of the forum after relase of the beta.

[BasaltineBadger]

Just play the beta and skip dialogues. Read everything you need to know from the journal. Or just focus on testing the Endless Paths.

[Ieo]

In many countries you can't add conditions after purchace of the product and many of this countries view that product rewards from kickstarter are pre-orders, so in these cases Obsidian can't add legaly binding NDA anymore to their beta-keys, but I don't see why they would even have such needs as they openly share information about game and discuss it with us, which was one of the reasons why they wanted to PE via kickstarter. So if person has really low spoiler tolerance I would suggest that s/he keep away spoiler allowed parts of the forum after relase of the beta.

 

Isn't the point of Kickstarter specifically to avoid the pre-order legal issue by stating all the backer levels are donations? There was some long discussion about it in one of the Update threads pertaining to international stuff, but I didn't pay that much attention to it--as to specific reward levels, I suppose that could be listed as "gift" for customs, but I really don't know how that would work out ultimately. Legally, there were no purchases.

 

As for a beta key NDA, I suppose Obsidian never intended the keys to be controlled like that, since it now makes no sense after they changed it to add-on (I'm sure Obs has way more testers than they can manage for an NDA anyway); although maybe one way they could've done it was the typical "upon install/run" software license agreements typical of today. Though I have no idea how different countries view those kinds of agreements.

 

There are also different ways to implement an NDA--a software product in the works may still be known and discussed in general, but a closed beta period would still require an NDA to avoid discussion of particulars like actual quests, screenshots, unintended effects that can degenerate quickly into internet screaming, etc. Granted, I've only seen this stepped implementation for MMO expansions*, but the sharing of information needn't be related to a player NDA, as I see it--devs sharing mechanics design and general lore and game features are still very different from someone talking about faction quest chains on the forums, for example.

 

At this point the only control Obsidian can exercise over potential leaks is to control the amount of game available for the beta testing, really.

 

 

*Example: LotRO's latest Rohan expansion started closed beta with NDA in July while developer diaries talking about specific new game mechanics were published all the way until the NDA was lifted in August.

[Elerond]

In many countries you can't add conditions after purchace of the product and many of this countries view that product rewards from kickstarter are pre-orders, so in these cases Obsidian can't add legaly binding NDA anymore to their beta-keys, but I don't see why they would even have such needs as they openly share information about game and discuss it with us, which was one of the reasons why they wanted to PE via kickstarter. So if person has really low spoiler tolerance I would suggest that s/he keep away spoiler allowed parts of the forum after relase of the beta.

 

Isn't the point of Kickstarter specifically to avoid the pre-order legal issue by stating all the backer levels are donations? There was some long discussion about it in one of the Update threads pertaining to international stuff, but I didn't pay that much attention to it--as to specific reward levels, I suppose that could be listed as "gift" for customs, but I really don't know how that would work out ultimately. Legally, there were no purchases.

 

 

It is, but for example here in Finland there was depate earlier this year about are kickstarter product rewards gifts, pre-orders or something else and this was because Finnish law don't recognize such thing as crowd funding. Reason for depate was of course taxing issue and it ended without court ruling as writer whose book funding caused depate returned funds, when she got funding from else where, so I don't know what Finnish court of law think about issue, but it is not as right forward as one would think. And I have told that Finland is not only country with such legal issues with kickstarter projects. But when we are speaking about foreing (from Finnish perspective) kickstarter projects our authorities don't care as long we pay VAT for product what we got. And how contracts will work is issue where we will haven't aswer until in future after first court ruling or law change (as it with all new things, goverment is always in the second train).

 

And I don't know about that Legally, there was no purchaces part, because you can find this part from kickstarter's terms

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

 

 

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

 

[BruceVC]

I am one of those people who has no inclination to play the Beta. I want all aspects of the game to be completely exciting and new for me the first time I play it.

[Streamlock]

I don't know if you can not ruin your experience like PE if you choose to beta it. I mean, I guess it does not matter for some people, but I would be inclined not to participate. I guess ruin is to strong......Lesson the experience?

[Paul D]

For me Beta is about being able to contribute to the quality of the game; record what is tested, raise any issues, obtain remediate/patch, test again.

 

I'll be testing what OE ask me to test, not just some random walk, unless they ask me to do that

[Ieo]

It is, but for example here in Finland there was depate earlier this year about are kickstarter product rewards gifts, pre-orders or something else and this was because Finnish law don't recognize such thing as crowd funding. Reason for depate was of course taxing issue and it ended without court ruling as writer whose book funding caused depate returned funds, when she got funding from else where, so I don't know what Finnish court of law think about issue, but it is not as right forward as one would think. And I have told that Finland is not only country with such legal issues with kickstarter projects. But when we are speaking about foreing (from Finnish perspective) kickstarter projects our authorities don't care as long we pay VAT for product what we got. And how contracts will work is issue where we will haven't aswer until in future after first court ruling or law change (as it with all new things, goverment is always in the second train).

 

And I don't know about that Legally, there was no purchaces part, because you can find this part from kickstarter's terms

 

International law... very interesting. Also explains why so many competitions or prizes etc. from "international" companies apply to the U.S. only. Re: ToS--okay, that's good to know. I wonder if it had changed at some point, but I didn't follow KS closely at all before this. Also a bit different from the pure donation model described elsewhere around this very topic (not beta), but I guess it depends entirely on how the tiers are set up. The most important thing is that KS absolves itself from any mediation, which is the part I remembered most; this means it's up to the backers fight for refunds or get together for a mass action if necessary against the project owners if it falls through (not gonna happen here, I'm sure).

 

Beta--I'd personally wait for the mega dungeon, I guess, because I wouldn't expect that content to overlap much at all with other world landscape quests (factions?), and the juiciest narrative parts should be easily predicted to live at the "bottom" of the dungeon, so to speak. I've done a little enterprise software QA before, and I think finding bugs is actually kinda fun; I wouldn't mind if a mere combat experience is spoiled or bugged out, that is. But the main storyline, major faction quests--I'd guess avoid those, and probably only use the Adventurer Hall mercenaries instead of actual companions. Also, I have my doubts that Obsidian would distribute testing scripts, but I could be wrong.

[Bli1942]

Same goes for the upcoming Beta for PE and generally for Betas. How can you actually enjoy a Beta without ruining that "first time"-magic for yourself?

You guys have any tricks?

 

Just don't play the beta. There's absolutely no point if you don't want to spoil it for yourself, they'll have plenty of other people to give feedback on it.

[Thangorodrim]

It's all in how you approach games and the beta ... for me, since a game like PE will be a marathon of game play 50-100 hours (hopefully closer to the 100 than the 50), I can experience the beta like an appetizer ... it will only increase my appetite for the full game to come later ... to me the only risk of a beta is if the game is bad then the beta can ruin your anticipation of the final game ... I am not expecting that in this case so I think it will only increase my desire to play the full version later on ... of course, others mileage may vary

[Archmage Silver]

I pledged enough to get it without needing an add-on for it... so I guess I'll just flip a coin to see if I'll play the beta version. Pretty tantalizing though.

[JWestfall]

If I do participate, I expect to play as a tester should - trying to "break" the game, keeping a record of bugs, repeating the same quests, running the game with different background tasks & options, etc. Since this is just as much "work" as "play", I'll decide whether to participate or not probably only at the last minute.

[santanzchild]

With my work schedule I'll hardly have time to play to start with so beta participation will be very limited any way about it

[Wench]

Even though I have beta access I am so tempted not to use it. Problem is that I find it difficult to replay games. I remember things way too well and for me the second time through really misses that special feeling of something new. If i played the beta different to the way I play the full game it would be one thing, but I'd want the first time to be the way I actually want to play it. If I played the beta i'd end up rushing through the same sections in the actual game and potentially get bored of it because I've seen it all before. In the end though it really depends on what the beta content is. If the beta is just designed to test and balance combat mechanics that would probably be ok for me. If its entire sectoins of the game as is with full dialog I'd have major problems with that.

[BBMorti]

Even though I have beta access I am so tempted not to use it. Problem is that I find it difficult to replay games. I remember things way too well and for me the second time through really misses that special feeling of something new. If i played the beta different to the way I play the full game it would be one thing, but I'd want the first time to be the way I actually want to play it. If I played the beta i'd end up rushing through the same sections in the actual game and potentially get bored of it because I've seen it all before. In the end though it really depends on what the beta content is. If the beta is just designed to test and balance combat mechanics that would probably be ok for me. If its entire sectoins of the game as is with full dialog I'd have major problems with that.

I second that. I will not be touching my beta access, either. I always avoid any kind of spoiler for games to make sure it is as fresh as possible when I run through it.

[Hassat Hunter]

Give the key to me...

 

That would be somewhat compensation for you opening the box, inserting the bluray in your player and reading the manual, while I can't because the shipping was just *too much*...

[cdx]

First time I played a crpg was a demo of BG2. It had the first level of Irenicus dungeon. I loved it as it opened the whole DnD world to me. Can't remember how many times I played through it before I got the whole game. It was great though, as I managed to learn how spells work, about different classes, kits, formations, mechanics, etc.

 

First time I went through the whole game was great, as I already knew how the game works. I could turn my full attention to enjoying the story and encounters. The new character made the whole story fresh and it was playing for the first time again, just better.

 

I'm pretty sure I'll get the beta and play it at least once, to get pumped up for things I like and get used to things I don't. For me it will only improve the experience of the full game. Hopefully will help a bit with sorting bugs out, too.

[jezz555]

I always hear people say stuff like this, stop being such a baby, It's just a game, play it or don't. I don't see why everything has to be such a ritual.

[dan107]

I've never understood why anyone would ever want to play a beta of anything. Essentially you're providing free QA for a buggy and unfinished game. That's not a privilege, it's a part-time job that you don't get paid for.

Edited November 4, 2012 by dan107

[HansKrSG]

I am not sure. If the beta is totally open, it would be very hard not to spoil things for yourself, short of not playing it. One of the betas I tested that came through another kickstarter drive, only included the beginning 30 minutes of the game, so that I couldn't spoil much, only leave me wanting more.

[SophosTheWise]

I always hear people say stuff like this, stop being such a baby, It's just a game, play it or don't. I don't see why everything has to be such a ritual.

 

Way to be condescending. I don't see why exactly you are supposed to have any competence to decide what I and other people should make rituals of. I do that whenever I want to. For some it's a ritual to watch the newest episode of their favourite TV show, for some it's opening up a new game they've always waited for, for some it's putting in a CD in stereo, for some it's team-stuff at the beginning of a football match, for some it's eating the same things on a certain day. You don't know what connection people have to the things they have rituals for - maybe there are emotions involved, maybe memories, maybe a single point in life where you have control - I could go on.

 

Quit being such a baby. Not everyone has to be the same - people are different. Accept that. Otherwise I refer to my Avatar.

[SinoSamba]

I'm on a tier with beta access, but I will skip playing it. Even on a game with crappy story like GW2 it was a bit of a bummer to have played the beta. Or they can go the way Valve did, the original HL demo was a stand-alone story, no spoilers. But I think it creates its own set of issues to have it like this.