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Arsenal - just how varied you'd like it to be?  

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  1. 1. When it comes to weapon types in PE, would you rather have :

    • Small weapon selection, but each type offers a unique playstyle and has a different animation.
    • A good amount of weapons, divided into subsets (weapons in a subset behave identically).
    • Large variety of weapons, but with little difference between them.


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One of the topics that was touched upon in the weapon mechanics thread was the amount of weapon types. I thought it'd make for an interesting poll question. How many weapon types would you like to see in the game? And just how different should they be?

 

1. Small weapon selection, but each type offers a unique playstyle and has a different animation.

 

E.g.

 

Rapiers utilize quick thrusts, and emphasise mobility in combat. Against heavily armoured opponents, however, a greatsword would be a better choice.

 

2. A good amount of weapons, divided into subsets (weapons in a subset behave identically).

 

E.g.

 

All polearms would be handled the same (similar reach, damage, animation etc.).

 

3. Large variety of weapons, but with little difference between them.

 

Self-explantory.

 

 

Each solution has its merits, what's your preference?

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I'd rather have a medium selection of weapon types. I'm seriously tired of recent games where you get only the usual sword-axe-maxe-twohands crap. I miss duelist classes and styles, I miss spears (guan dao type), I miss variety...

Edited by SeekDWay
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Derpdragon of the Obsidian Order

Derpdragons everywhere. I like spears.

 

No sleep for the Watcher... because he was busy playing Pillars of Eternity instead.

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Well when you talk about weapon types you have to strike a balance somehow, since including too many weapon types just makes certain weapons redundant *or* makes certain weapon types completely useless. I'd be for a large variety of weapons and especially damage types (crushing, piercing, etc essentially core D&D weapons).

 

Swords: big swords, medium swords, little swords, and wonky swords (bastard/double bladed)

Axes (lower krit range - but more krit damage): big, medium, little, wonky.

 

and etc etc.

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It's hardly unrealistic. Age of Decadence has a wide variety of weapons that all play very differently. It's all in how they decide to design their game.

 

From what I remember from playing AoD's combat demo, it'd fall somewhere between choices 1 and 2 of the poll.

Could be wrong about that, however - it's been a while.

Edited by Karranthain
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Yet another poll with no "other" option - :banghead:

 

Josh talked about making sure if a weapon (type) was in the game it would be useful and it would also not be a "no-brainer" to either use it (over all others) or never choose it.

 

I'm good with that and would like to see as wide a choice of "standard" weapons as can be done well in that manner - and of course a boatload (or two) of one of a kind "unique" weapons with thier own history as well.

 

Crafting/enchanting is in as well so I expect that will play a part in weaponry choices also...

Edited by wanderon
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Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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I'd like a large variety of weapons. I'm sick and tired of RPGs boiling down weapons into smaller categories with each and every successor. Take a look at Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim.

 

Maybe, just MAYBE merge the dagger/shortsword into one.

 

As for variety, I think the piercing, slashing, blunt damage types would be just fine.

Edited by Infiltrator_SF
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While I would really like to have a large selection of weapons, I do not think it should be at the expense of them basically being nearly identical.

Take polearms, there's a very large number: Halberd, pike, ranseur, bill, glaive, guisarme, glaive guisarme, ranseur, bardiche, brandistock and quite a few more if you start digging around. Not to mention oriental weapons like say the naginata, although if you would call them identical to some western weapons is another matter.

Naturally it is possible to make all weapons distinct, but the question then is if that is desirable as it would basically mean making an extremely detailed combat simulator.

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While I would really like to have a large selection of weapons, I do not think it should be at the expense of them basically being nearly identical.

Take polearms, there's a very large number: Halberd, pike, ranseur, bill, glaive, guisarme, glaive guisarme, ranseur, bardiche, brandistock and quite a few more if you start digging around. Not to mention oriental weapons like say the naginata, although if you would call them identical to some western weapons is another matter.

Naturally it is possible to make all weapons distinct, but the question then is if that is desirable as it would basically mean making an extremely detailed combat simulator.

 

Indeed - and we know that this game won't be a combat simulator, as it'll have a large focus on story as well. Hence the options in the poll - all of them being a compromise of sorts.

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I am fine with polearms being one subset of weapons. Mainly, I'd like weapon skills to be divided in simple categories like swords, axes, hammers, polearms, daggers, thrown, firearms, bows. These skills should all do different things, but different kinds of weapons within the skillset should basically operate the same except maybe different modifiers for the weapons themselves (rapiers critting more, but doing less base damage than say a bastard sword)

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I am fine with polearms being one subset of weapons. Mainly, I'd like weapon skills to be divided in simple categories like swords, axes, hammers, polearms, daggers, thrown, firearms, bows. These skills should all do different things, but different kinds of weapons within the skillset should basically operate the same except maybe different modifiers for the weapons themselves (rapiers critting more, but doing less base damage than say a bastard sword)

 

The first option in the poll basically means that a rapier and a longsword (despite the fact that both could be categorized broadly as swords) would be very different from each other. That's why I posted that I think it'd be unrealistic to expect to have both that and a large selection of weapons.

 

From your post it seems you'd be in favour of the second option - and I'd be happy with that one too :)

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I really like the GURPS approach to combat, with the swing/thrust attack forms, parry/block defenses, and the bash/slash/pierce damage types. Once you have a general mechanism like that in place, then implementing distinctive weapon and shield variety isn't a big leap. In practice, of course, the mechanics would be handled by the characters so you don't have to micromanage everything. But it would present some tactical decision making with regard to your weapon and shield selections.

Edited by rjshae

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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We have to reach a compromice within the game i think.

 

Ading to many weapons and you cant expect unique feel and animations/skills in the game and grouping animations/skills for weapon groups can add tons of weapons because there just skins.

 

Personaly i would like Weapons to be subcategorized in more or less aninamtions,

For example grab a bunch of pople that recreate Medival battles and other martioal artists, and let the team select groups of animations for the weapons, and then add as much weapons as posible as skins, with diferent stats.

 

But thats just me.

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Similar weapons could differ by usablility and effectivess of combat styles.

 

A "sword" originally was the weapon we call "shortsword" in RPGs - an arm-sized one-hand weapon supposed to be used alone or with a shield, rarely with an off-hand sword. A dagger actually is a brawling weapon, an artificial claw. You *could* use it to fence like it were a sword but it would be very ineffective because of its size, likewise a sword would be very ineffective in a brawl.

 

The leg-sized longsword and katana were two handed weapons that could also be used one-handed aka bastard swords. They are much faster than a man-sized claymore or nodachi, but lack the usability against cavalry. Of course, even used in one-hand-style longswords aren't quite as maneuverable as a "short sword" which in turn wouldn't gain any advantage from being used two handed. The rapier and saber have a hand guard which forbid the two handed style, etc.

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"You are going to have to learn to think before you act, but never to regret your decisions, right or wrong. Otherwise, you will slowly begin to not make decisions at all."

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They could simulate a lot of weapon variety with a min and max weapon strength ratings: below the min you start taking a penalty; above the max you stop receiving additional Str bonuses (because otherwise you might break the weapon).

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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They could simulate a lot of weapon variety with a min and max weapon strength ratings: below the min you start taking a penalty; above the max you stop receiving additional Str bonuses (because otherwise you might break the weapon).

 

And here's some additional ideas : http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60205-weapon-mechanics/#entry1190501.

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If you're going to have significant difference in how weapons play, without one decidedly being better than the other (just different) then I want to have access to choice. I don't want to ignore the mace because I already found a sword earlier and invested into my swordmanship so that it now no longer is interesting to go with the mace, because I came across it later.

 

that's my only real fear.

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I'm reminded of the system in Dark Souls where each weapon is categorized in a different type that has a different animations. The game has a large amount of weapons but only a few animations in between them that they change and mix.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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If you're going to have significant difference in how weapons play, without one decidedly being better than the other (just different) then I want to have access to choice. I don't want to ignore the mace because I already found a sword earlier and invested into my swordmanship so that it now no longer is interesting to go with the mace, because I came across it later.

 

that's my only real fear.

 

Ideally, there'd be place for both - they would handle differently, but be equally viable.

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Surely role play is a good place to start? The type of character who uses a raipier is going to be different to one that uses a longsword or warhammer, whereas one who uses a raipier might also use a dagger or a short bow. As such weapons could be grouped under general notions of play-style, and contribute to the construction of characters rather then purely being reduced to stats and numbers.

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