The "Unofficial" P.E. Relationship/Romance thread

mr.Ermac · October 17, 2012

I believe that there can be a balance between all romance outcome types. It would be interesting to have a romance with a different outcome, though it is not necessary, to focus too much on making every party member romancable. Once again, I point to the way PS:T did romances - that was a much better, and interesting way to approach the issue, and I believe that they should do it again in P:E. As a matter of fact I'm pretty certain that is the way they'll approach it since MCA does in fact like to go for that type of twist. You don't have to cater to every single person, especially if they start crying on the boards because they didn't get enough sexy time with a character. It is not important in the end to just bang the person you are having a relationship with - the important thing is what you share with each other. So by that I mean our reward for a successful romance should not be tastefully sexing our interest, but rather it should be expressed more through dialog and other actions on the part of the companion toward us.

HOWEVER, we are forgetting, that this is not a game being made by Bioware, who in their past did make some good romances but since then have completely gone off the deep end, this is a game being made people in whom I still trust and I trust MCA will not disappoint.

This being said, I wouldn't mind seeing romance options in the game, but they shouldn't focus too much on that. I want to see a quality story and well-developed characters, and if there's time to throw in some romance - then why shouldn't they. It is completely up to the player to decide if they'll pursue that option or not.

Tsuga C · October 17, 2012

Although P:E won't include D&D alignments per se, I'm sure that a fair number of their NPCs will fall into one of the nine traditional alignments. Most of the time I play a good or neutral character, but every now and then I do attempt to play an evil one and am generally disappointed by the lack of intelligent, suitable options. I'd like to put in my request for a more or less Lawful Evil romanceable companion. She can be wicked, but she needs to generally keep her word and be relatively disciplined. Otherwise she'd not be worth the hassle and she'd be likely to cut your throat or sell you out in some manner if you no longer served her purposes.

Official Request: a L.E. female L.I., please.

Pshaw · October 17, 2012

Since I already touched on some of these in my posts in the previous thread I'll try not to ramble too much.

--what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

Honestly I think in this diversity is the best option. People all prefer different things but variety makes the path you DO like that much more special by comparison rather than having all the romance plots end up in the same place. I personally really enjoyed the Planescape Torment romances despite them being tragic and Morrigans romance from DA:O because she didnt give up on her goals (albeit powerhungry/evil ones) because of falling in love with the warden.

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

While I'm all for romances I'd have to say no to cutscenes. I think trying to show making out or sex detracts from these relationships more than it helps in most cases. I also think that any sort of 'approval meter' like in the dragon age series is a mistake. Hopefully you can tell how a character feels about you through dialogue without need for it to be so cut and dry.

Quests are nice - personally I think all party members should have quests that help you earn/lose their trust regardless of romance being involved. Though perhaps you should have to get them to trust you enough to even ask for your help in the matter. That said I don't think quests for the romance itself are needed. I'd gladly play through them where appropriate but I don't think the players who dislike presueing romances should feel like they're missing out on quests. Some people are complitionist and still don't want to romance somebody.

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

As mentioned earlier I think Morrigan in DA: O was an interesting romance. Viconia in BG2 was also interesting in that in order to successfully have a romance with her you had to do more than just be polite to her. Jaheria in BG2 was also interesting in that she started out married in BG1 and you had to help her get over that and in doing so you develope feelings for each other. Pointing out these isn't to say that their isn't a place for the sweet and nice romances, they just shouldn't be the only type around.

--What, even, is romance?

Romance, for me at least, in a game means having a more invested relationship between the main character and a party member/npc. This does generally involve some sort of commitment between the 2 characters. It does not need to include sex or marriage though.

Also seperately I believe that characters should have strong friendships that while not 'romantic' signify the bond and respect they've developed with your main character. Despite everybody bagging on Bioware (I guess it's just the cool thing to do) I believe that Garrus, Tali, and Wrex all had that sort of relationship with Shepard. Garrus was clearly pretty much outcast and alone but confided in and trusted Shepard more than anybody. Wrex grudingly came to respect Shepard as a warrior then as a friend and in the end considered you to be a hero to his entire race. Tali went from just being teenager who tagged along to get information that would help her people to a mature character who would trust you enough to serve along side a geth crew member and even assist you in stopping her own people from wiping out the geth race because you've changed how she saw things. Those were deep friendships built on trust and it made the games better for their inclusion. On the other hand if you didn't presue those friendships Wrex could die on a beach or be betrayed and killed by shepard. Tali could be exiled from her people or commit suicide or leave your crew entirely. I think these sorts of relationships are every bit as important as romance options.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pshaw

Kymriana · October 17, 2012

Although P:E won't include D&D alignments per se, I'm sure that a fair number of their NPCs will fall into one of the nine traditional alignments. Most of the time I play a good or neutral character, but every now and then I do attempt to play an evil one and am generally disappointed by the lack of intelligent, suitable options. I'd like to put in my request for a more or less Lawful Evil romanceable companion. She can be wicked, but she needs to generally keep her word and be relatively disciplined. Otherwise she'd not be worth the hassle and she'd be likely to cut your throat or sell you out in some manner if you no longer served her purposes.

Official Request: a L.E. female L.I., please.

Even ignoring the romance aspect, I weep DAILY over the lack of smooth, intelligent, reasonable lawful evil-esque options in games! It's either "Save everyone! I'm a good guy!" or "Kick puppies and burn down orphanages! I'm evil just to be EVIL!"..... where are the lawful evil options, maaaaaaaaaaan? (Says the girl who plays the only evil character at her D&D group, who started out lawful evil and got pushed into neutral evil by said party...)

My comment in the previous thread about the 'choice' being more like a 'choose your own adventure' situation and promoting the 'flag-tree type' of conversations with companions never really did get commented on. Ah well. /SHRUG

Ieo, you're still my favorite person to have chatted with in this(er.. that) thread for our very nice chat on page 11.

Karkarov · October 17, 2012

This thread is for all the romantics out there to continue discussions on the possibility of there being romances/relationships in Project Eternity. For example:

--what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

--What, even, is romance?

1: All of the above? Include enough options so that there should be something for everyone but if Obsidian is going to go through with this make it so the endings of these relationships are open ended. Meaning two people romancing the same npc don't have to end the same way.

2: Questlines would be nice though this could be true for non romance companions or whatever too. In fact, why are we even restricted to companions? Why don't you ever see the option to romance other people not in your party? God knows on my evil rise to power and glory I need to shack up with the Duke's Daughter not Elmira the mage from the Swamp, no it doesn't matter how good her enlarge spell is. Cutscenes are fine but there is nothing wrong with a "boot scene" either. As long as it is clear about what happened. Bigger is also better, make romance optional but if followed find a way to tie it into the main plot.

3: I thought Jaheira from Bladur's Gate was pretty well done. If you kept her around from game 1 it lead to a very impressive story progression for that character whether you romanced her or not. There are some other romances I could also indicate as favorites such as Elly and Fei from Xenogears, or my buddies long bromance with Caxton in Dragon's Dogma but I think Jaheira is the best model for this particular game and concept.

4: What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more! Hey Hey....

Aidoneus · October 17, 2012

I want the romances from PS:T and KOTOR2 to serve as models for Obsidian in this case. A more subtle and complicated kind of romance.

the best thing about kotor2 romances is Mira's not having the slighest interest in you.

And calling you old...

oberjaeger · October 17, 2012

If we get a Stronghold, maybe we'll get a Lady/Lord to marry as well?

Maybe you can decide to have encounters (as in the Witcher) as well.

And you children start as PC in PE2.

And they meet the unclaimed children from you affairs from PE1...

now I'm not sure if you're serious or just trolling. bsn version of Poe's law.

****ing urls, how do they work?

Why, serious of course, can't see any trolling..

Bravo then, because in that case your post have made lose my faith in humanity. AVE SATANAS!

Cool your jets, all I propose that you face the consequences of your (mis)behavior. I don't meant that you have have affairs in PE1.

Edited October 17, 2012 by oberjaeger

evdk · October 17, 2012

Alignments

Oh god, not this can of worms. When I roleplay, I roleplay my character, alignments are incidental. Stop trying to pigeonhole everything.

LadyMuck · October 17, 2012

I want BG2 romances as guidelines how to do romances (except Anomen, his could... be improved ) in PE.

Hey, I loved Anomen. :grin:

Romance should have been a stretch goal. 4.5 mil, or over should have done it. That would more than pay for the pile of asprin/beer needed for the writers. ^^

Azarkon · October 17, 2012

Romance is only one of a set of 'deep relationships' between players and NPCs. It is an important one, to be sure, but there are equally - and at times tighter - bonds. For example, the relationship between a parent and a child. The relationship between siblings. The relationship between a priest and his god. The relationship between an avenger and his target. The relationship between a knight and the one he / she is oathbound to serve. The relationship between an artist and his object of inspiration. The relationship of these relationships to each other, to get a bit meta.

Personally, what I want to see are explorations of these other sorts of relationships, rather than romance per se.

Chrząszczyrzewoszyczanin · October 17, 2012

I don't care either way, and I don't see why people are so invested in this.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Chrząszczyrzewoszyczanin

SeekDWay · October 17, 2012

I believe that there can be a balance between all romance outcome types. It would be interesting to have a romance with a different outcome, though it is not necessary, to focus too much on making every party member romancable. Once again, I point to the way PS:T did romances - that was a much better, and interesting way to approach the issue, and I believe that they should do it again in P:E. As a matter of fact I'm pretty certain that is the way they'll approach it since MCA does in fact like to go for that type of twist. You don't have to cater to every single person, especially if they start crying on the boards because they didn't get enough sexy time with a character. It is not important in the end to just bang the person you are having a relationship with - the important thing is what you share with each other. So by that I mean our reward for a successful romance should not be tastefully sexing our interest, but rather it should be expressed more through dialog and other actions on the part of the companion toward us.

HOWEVER, we are forgetting, that this is not a game being made by Bioware, who in their past did make some good romances but since then have completely gone off the deep end, this is a game being made people in whom I still trust and I trust MCA will not disappoint.

This being said, I wouldn't mind seeing romance options in the game, but they shouldn't focus too much on that. I want to see a quality story and well-developed characters, and if there's time to throw in some romance - then why shouldn't they. It is completely up to the player to decide if they'll pursue that option or not.

I totally agree with you. The brick-in-your-face-romances are just bad writing and we all know where that came from. There is a lot you can do with romances other than what is now considered "standard".

As I said before I'd rather have romance in the meaning that a succubus would touch me with her finger, than a party of aliens who all want to dryhump me to death.

Edited October 17, 2012 by SeekDWay

kenup · October 17, 2012

I want the romances from PS:T and KOTOR2 to serve as models for Obsidian in this case. A more subtle and complicated kind of romance.

the best thing about kotor2 romances is Mira's not having the slighest interest in you.

And calling you old...

Don't remember the second part ever being mentioned.

jarpie · October 17, 2012

I don't get why every RPG should have romances? Not every film, book or tv-show has them so why should rpgs?

Lysen · October 17, 2012

Don't really care about romances in games. When they are in, I am trying to avoid them, and this is bad when they are almost forced on you like it was in Mass Effect (or maybe it was so because of the notorious dialogue wheel, I hate that thing). The only problem with romances is that they will take a lot of developer's time, which is better to spend on other things like writing more non-romance related dialogue.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Lysen

lordgizka · October 17, 2012

I don't get why every RPG should have romances? Not every film, book or tv-show has them so why should rpgs?

I honestly don't know which RPGs are you using to make this statement. All Bioware ones did, yes, bust most certainly not an overwhelming amount of others.

deamon451 · October 17, 2012

I'd like to remind members that trolling with intent to derail is not looked upon with favor. Try to play nice in the sandbox.

What about members that have/getting troll pics from Chris? Will they get in trouble for trolling for just posting?

In all seriousness, trolling is bad and text on a computer screen does not communicate tone well.

jarpie · October 17, 2012

Don't really care about romances in games. When they are in, I am trying to avoid them, and this is bad when they are almost forced on you like it was in Mass Effect (or maybe it was so because of the notorious dialogue wheel, I hate that thing). The only problem with romances is that they will take a lot of developer's time, which is better to spend on other things like writing more not-romance related dialogue.

That's what we've been trying to sledge in for those who demands romances - they take resources and time from writing other stuff for companions, like non-romance dialogue and background.

Melhelix · October 17, 2012

I'm fine with romance as long as it is well written, and not overbearing. It should be something the player can choose to engage in, not forced down the player's throat.

Cutscenes are probably out for PE because of the sheer expense (also, they tend to just feel weird). Questlines are… fine if done in moderation. I prefer just a line here or there sprinkled throughout the game. Intra-party relationships (alliances, friendships, hostilities) not involving the player, or only cursory involving the player are also very interesting and something that tends to get overlooked. Not everyone is going to get along with each other. And some may become friends just because they hate the same person.

Resolution can be covered with just a line or two in the epilogue end-text. Possibly the worst romance I have ever seen is whinyboy Carth Onasi in KOTOR1, "I think I could love you" because, oh baby, that's the kind of commitment a woman wants to hear after all that effort *eyeroll*.

deamon451 · October 17, 2012

I would like to have the option of romances, but I am wary of the development effort to put in all the major variations that people want.

Sazabi · October 17, 2012

I just want to say I would not like to see romance in the game. Didn't care for it in any of the Bioware games and don't care for it now.

Kymriana · October 17, 2012

Don't really care about romances in games. When they are in, I am trying to avoid them, and this is bad when they are almost forced on you like it was in Mass Effect (or maybe it was so because of the notorious dialogue wheel, I hate that thing). The only problem with romances is that they will take a lot of developer's time, which is better to spend on other things like writing more not-romance related dialogue.

That's an argument of 'what I like/want is more important than what they want' type of argument... and is, basically, a selfish type of claim. What you want is perfectly valid... but so is someone who wants a well-written(and I stress that, people... and have in every post I've made tyvm) interaction with companions that can include romance and rivalry. We are trusting the writers to know their characters well enough to be able to write a good story, be that with or without rivalry and romance. That people would like to have that option does not make it inherently wrong, or that they want to dumb down any other part of the game, either. Because we're not doing VO, motion-capture, movie-esque cut scenes but depending on the simple writing... it isn't NEARLY as much 'taking time from what *I* want' as people seem to think it will be, either.

Ruka · October 17, 2012

what type of romance plot do you enjoy (tragic, happy ending, marriage/family)?

One that ends up with both parties(or multiple people) involved content with one another

--are there particular game mechanics that you like to see when romances are included (complex questlines, cutscenes?)?

Quest, Cutscenes, Hanging out at the stronghold, etc. . .

--what romances or relationship plots from other games did you enjoy that can serve as examples?

BGII and even though you couldn't choose, FFX and Chrono Trigger

--What, even, is romance?

What is life?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Ruka

jarpie · October 17, 2012

I don't get why every RPG should have romances? Not every film, book or tv-show has them so why should rpgs?

I honestly don't know which RPGs are you using to make this statement. All Bioware ones did, yes, bust most certainly not an overwhelming amount of others.

Tell me what other RPGs there are? Project Eternity is basicly first proper fantasy rpg in almost ten years and romance-crowd wants to turn it into Bioware game.

Kymriana · October 17, 2012

Tell me what other RPGs there are? Project Eternity is basicly first proper fantasy rpg in almost ten years and romance-crowd wants to turn it into Bioware game.

That's sticking a whole lot of words in a whole lot of people's mouths that have not, actually, been said. Just FYI.

The "Unofficial" P.E. Relationship/Romance thread

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